Please explain the process of getting a class III item

cornered rat · September 15, 1999, 10:06 AM

I have finally scraped up enough for a squirtgun and found one for sale. Now, I am looking for a transferrable guns (found an MP40, but would prefer other types) If anyone knows of a seller with a PPSh or Suomi or a Sten or a Thompson or a Beretta 38 or anything else other than Reising or Ingram, please let me know.

Also, what kind of harrassment from the ATF or local enforces can I expect once I own one of those eeeeeevvvviiiilll things?

[This message has been edited by cornered rat (edited September 15, 1999).]

Byron Quick · September 15, 1999, 11:36 AM

Oleg,

I've owned a selective fire Uzi for 13 years with no harassment at all from anyone.

Let's see.

1) They are legal in your state? Minnesota, I believe.
2) Find a Class III dealer in your state. Pay for the gun and have it shipped to him.
3) The Class III dealer will guide you through the rest of the process. Basically, send in a set of fingerprints, a completed Form 4 with a Chief Law Enforcement Officer signature (chief of police, sheriff, district attorney and apparently in some states this officer is designated by local statute.)
4) Send all this to BATF with $200.

Think this is it but it has been a long time for me.

Word of advice. Buy a weapon that still has plenty of relatively inexpensive high capacity magazines available. Otherwise the weapon is a very expensive single shot when your single mag is exhausted. What are the availability of MP40 magazines? Don't get me wrong-there might be piles of them cheap as dirt lying around. Just check.

cornered rat · September 15, 1999, 12:57 PM

My current find is a mismatched (mostly '44) MP40 with six (?) magazines, loader, some spare parts for $3800 (ouch!). I have fired it several times and know that it works well. However, I am wondering about a PPSh (which is the one I want even more) or cheaper Sten or ? items. $3800 sounds like a lot, even though it would be worth the expense to me.

Jim V · September 15, 1999, 06:51 PM

CR, Stens are not inexpensive while their mags are. I am not sure on the price of any of your choices. I did have the web address of Kent Lomont at one time, he is a big class three dealer. If I can find it I will post it. In the mean time, you can contact a friend of mine that is a CIII dealer here in Michigan. [email protected] is his e-mail. Tell him what you want and he can give you some idea what it will cost.

------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"

James K · September 15, 1999, 08:40 PM

If the seller and buyer are residents of the same state, there is no need for a Class III dealer as far as BATF is concerned. (State law may require a dealer, though.) This saves $200, as going through a dealer is two transfers ($400) while direct purchase is one transfer ($200).

If both parties are in the same state, get BATF Form 4 and their fingerprint cards. Follow instructions on the Form 4. The buyer must get signature from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) in buyer's area. This only says CLEO has no information that the transferee (buyer) will use the gun unlawfully and that there are no local laws prohibiting the purchase.

Send duplicate Form 4 to address on the form with a check for $200.

Wait is anywhere from 15 days to 60 days.

Jim

glock64 · September 16, 1999, 07:32 PM

I would like to know how to get a Class III firearms licence.

tankertom · September 18, 1999, 07:45 AM

I would suggest going to www.subguns.com

You can get a list of recommended Class 3 dealers on the home page. The MG discussion board is a great place to ask questions about class 3 weapons.

Tom

James K · September 18, 1999, 09:30 PM

Hi, Glock64,

Assuming you are talking about a Class 3 dealer's license, write to BATF for the application forms. AFAIK, the requirements are the same as for any other dealer FFL. You must be engaging in a real business (not just buying for your personal use), you must pass a criminal records check, you must be in compliance with all state and local laws, and you must have a secure business premises.

BATF really doesn't care what you deal in as long as you have the license, are really in business, and comply with the laws and regulations.

Jim

Jim V · September 21, 1999, 08:34 AM

Cornered Rat: Have you thought about getting a Curio and Relic License? There are a number of "squirtguns" on the C&R list. A lot easier than going thru 2 CIII dealers, you only need one (I think) as you are licensed by the Feds to own such things. You still would need your CLEO's signature and all that.

------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"

James K · September 21, 1999, 02:10 PM

Jim V,

I would be very careful getting into using a collector's license for Class 3 firearms. It is a legal can of worms. Best to write BATF if planning to use a collector's (C&R) license for Class 3.

Jim

Jim V · September 21, 1999, 04:29 PM

I have two friends that have C&R licenses, both have bought C3 arms on their licenses. They ordered thru C3 dealers on a Form 5, only one $200 transfer fee, and got their arms, Reisings and an AR18. All of which are on the C&R list.

You can't get Dealer Samples or non C&R guns on the license.

------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"

[This message has been edited by Jim V (edited September 21, 1999).]

cornered rat · September 21, 1999, 05:48 PM

After thinking about this further, I have decided to apply the effort to learning rifle craft a bit better instead. I am not willing to go through that much trouble for sentimental value and I am not sure that an SMG would be that much better than an AR against possibly armored opponents.

September 15, 1999, 10:06 AM	#1
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	I have finally scraped up enough for a squirtgun and found one for sale. Now, I am looking for a transferrable guns (found an MP40, but would prefer other types) If anyone knows of a seller with a PPSh or Suomi or a Sten or a Thompson or a Beretta 38 or anything else other than Reising or Ingram, please let me know. Also, what kind of harrassment from the ATF or local enforces can I expect once I own one of those eeeeeevvvviiiilll things? [This message has been edited by cornered rat (edited September 15, 1999).]

September 15, 1999, 11:36 AM	#2
Byron Quick Staff In Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Waynesboro, Georgia, USA Posts: 2,361	Oleg, I've owned a selective fire Uzi for 13 years with no harassment at all from anyone. Let's see. 1) They are legal in your state? Minnesota, I believe. 2) Find a Class III dealer in your state. Pay for the gun and have it shipped to him. 3) The Class III dealer will guide you through the rest of the process. Basically, send in a set of fingerprints, a completed Form 4 with a Chief Law Enforcement Officer signature (chief of police, sheriff, district attorney and apparently in some states this officer is designated by local statute.) 4) Send all this to BATF with $200. Think this is it but it has been a long time for me. Word of advice. Buy a weapon that still has plenty of relatively inexpensive high capacity magazines available. Otherwise the weapon is a very expensive single shot when your single mag is exhausted. What are the availability of MP40 magazines? Don't get me wrong-there might be piles of them cheap as dirt lying around. Just check.

September 15, 1999, 12:57 PM	#3
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	My current find is a mismatched (mostly '44) MP40 with six (?) magazines, loader, some spare parts for $3800 (ouch!). I have fired it several times and know that it works well. However, I am wondering about a PPSh (which is the one I want even more) or cheaper Sten or ? items. $3800 sounds like a lot, even though it would be worth the expense to me.

September 15, 1999, 06:51 PM	#4
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,038	CR, Stens are not inexpensive while their mags are. I am not sure on the price of any of your choices. I did have the web address of Kent Lomont at one time, he is a big class three dealer. If I can find it I will post it. In the mean time, you can contact a friend of mine that is a CIII dealer here in Michigan. [email protected] is his e-mail. Tell him what you want and he can give you some idea what it will cost. ------------------ Ne Conjuge Nobiscum "If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"

September 15, 1999, 08:40 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If the seller and buyer are residents of the same state, there is no need for a Class III dealer as far as BATF is concerned. (State law may require a dealer, though.) This saves $200, as going through a dealer is two transfers ($400) while direct purchase is one transfer ($200). If both parties are in the same state, get BATF Form 4 and their fingerprint cards. Follow instructions on the Form 4. The buyer must get signature from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) in buyer's area. This only says CLEO has no information that the transferee (buyer) will use the gun unlawfully and that there are no local laws prohibiting the purchase. Send duplicate Form 4 to address on the form with a check for $200. Wait is anywhere from 15 days to 60 days. Jim

September 16, 1999, 07:32 PM	#6
glock64 Junior Member Join Date: September 15, 1999 Posts: 3	I would like to know how to get a Class III firearms licence.

September 18, 1999, 07:45 AM	#7
tankertom Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 1998 Location: Northern Virginia, USA Posts: 199	I would suggest going to www.subguns.com You can get a list of recommended Class 3 dealers on the home page. The MG discussion board is a great place to ask questions about class 3 weapons. Tom

September 18, 1999, 09:30 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Glock64, Assuming you are talking about a Class 3 dealer's license, write to BATF for the application forms. AFAIK, the requirements are the same as for any other dealer FFL. You must be engaging in a real business (not just buying for your personal use), you must pass a criminal records check, you must be in compliance with all state and local laws, and you must have a secure business premises. BATF really doesn't care what you deal in as long as you have the license, are really in business, and comply with the laws and regulations. Jim

September 21, 1999, 08:34 AM	#9
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,038	Cornered Rat: Have you thought about getting a Curio and Relic License? There are a number of "squirtguns" on the C&R list. A lot easier than going thru 2 CIII dealers, you only need one (I think) as you are licensed by the Feds to own such things. You still would need your CLEO's signature and all that. ------------------ Ne Conjuge Nobiscum "If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"

September 21, 1999, 02:10 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Jim V, I would be very careful getting into using a collector's license for Class 3 firearms. It is a legal can of worms. Best to write BATF if planning to use a collector's (C&R) license for Class 3. Jim

September 21, 1999, 04:29 PM	#11
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,038	I have two friends that have C&R licenses, both have bought C3 arms on their licenses. They ordered thru C3 dealers on a Form 5, only one $200 transfer fee, and got their arms, Reisings and an AR18. All of which are on the C&R list. You can't get Dealer Samples or non C&R guns on the license. ------------------ Ne Conjuge Nobiscum "If there be treachery, let there be jehad!" [This message has been edited by Jim V (edited September 21, 1999).]

September 21, 1999, 05:48 PM	#12
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	After thinking about this further, I have decided to apply the effort to learning rifle craft a bit better instead. I am not willing to go through that much trouble for sentimental value and I am not sure that an SMG would be that much better than an AR against possibly armored opponents.