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Old August 2, 2011, 02:34 PM   #101
Glockfan36
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I may only NEED three rounds but I like the Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared",and that includes having a fully loaded handgun ready to go. KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL READY TO SHOOT, and you'll do just fine!
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Old August 2, 2011, 04:53 PM   #102
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It all boils down to a simple matter.
If you don't feel you have the training, experience, responsibility, and confidence to carry one in the tube...then don't
If however you are confident in your training, competence, responsibility, and and experience, by all means do carry one in the tube.
Simple chocolate or vanilla if you think of it like that!
Amazing - to infer that people who don't carry a round in the chamber only do so because they lack the training, experience, responsibility and confidence simply continues to provide us additional insight into your own character.

For me and every other individual I know who carries unchambered (I know, you won't believe I know people like that unless I give you their names and addresses) it's all about which set of risks and rewards we prefer.

Fact #1 - with all other factors being equal, a loaded pistol has a greater tactical advantage over an unloaded pistol. By not carrying chambered, you must accept the risks that come with not having that tactical advantage.

Fact #2 - with all other factors being equal, a loaded pistol is more susceptible to being involved in an AD/ND than an unloaded pistol.

I don't carry chambered because I lack confidence and training. To the contrary, it requires more confidence and training to carry unloaded than loaded (see the video found earlier in this thread for an example). I carry unloaded because I prefer the risks and rewards of carrying unloaded vs. the risks and rewards of carrying loaded.

I personally feel that the risk of an AD/ND is higher than the risk of not being able to properly defend myself when it comes to needing to chamber a round for defense. Unlike most others who have posted, I simply claim that this is the best carry option for me and my current situation.

At the end of the day, I think we ought to worry less about whether the round is chambered or not and worry more about the technique and skill required to use your pistol when the time comes.
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Old August 2, 2011, 06:13 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predecessor
Quote:
It all boils down to a simple matter.
If you don't feel you have the training, ...then don't....
Amazing - to infer that people who don't carry a round in the chamber only do so because they lack the training, ...simply continues to provide us additional insight into your own character....
A fair inference, at least with respect to training. If one has trained at Gunsite, Front Sight, Thunder Ranch or other leading schools, or if one has trained with Massad Ayoob, Louis Awerbuck or other leading trainers, he will have trained to carry with a round in the chamber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by predecessor
...I think we ought to worry less about whether the round is chambered or not and worry more about the technique and skill required to use your pistol when the time comes...
Being able to quickly put your gun to effective use, with one hand if necessary, is part of the "...technique and skill required to use your pistol...", at least as generally taught.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisJ715
...If you need a handgun, you need it NOW....
Most likely.

The odds of needing a gun are really pretty long. The vast majority of people will live out their entire lives without ever needing to use a gun in self defense. However, in the unlikely event that you do need your gun, you will probably need it very quickly. Theses are independent variables.

Again, carry as you like, but if you don't have a round chambered you have disadvantaged yourself tactically. That is your choice, but a lot of us think it's not a very good choice.
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Old August 2, 2011, 06:22 PM   #104
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To dgludwig: If you think that under the pressure of a life threatening attack you absolutely will remember all that you have been taught about gun safety, I think you are overly optimistic. When after years of carrying without incident, you need to draw your weapon to defend yourself or your family, I am not so sure that it will be easy to remember and instinctively practice proper gun handling, including keeping your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. I think an accidental discharge is more than a slim possibility, and yes, I would consider that an accident, not negligence.
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Old August 2, 2011, 06:42 PM   #105
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Training, as in SAFETY! If you are afraid to carry one in the chamber, then don't!!!
My mindset? I am very competent, experienced, cautious, aware, and responsible. I will most likely not ever have to use my CCW firearm to defend my life, Most likely NEVER! I keep fresh with it's function. Fresh with my function, and fresh with it's maintenance. I am constantly aware of its status. Weather it is a pocket pistol in a pocket holster in my pocket. WITH NOTHING ELSE IN THAT POCKET!!! Like keys, knives, change, etc. I know the exact position on my belt if that is where I carry at the time. I am aware as I sit down, enter a car, or any other situation that may cause interference with the safe carry of my firearm. I am aware of the condition of the holsters to insure that they are properly protect the trigger.
My comment was meant to mean that if a person doesn't feel they know, and do all these things, and feel safer with trying to get a proper purchase on a handgun, draw it, rack the slide, and then be ready to use it if necessary, by all means carry with an empty chamber.
My mindset. Safety, Safety, PREPAREDNESS, and safety!!!
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Old August 2, 2011, 07:15 PM   #106
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Always chambered whether it's a P3AT in a pocket holster (nothing else in pocket) or a G26/CBST. My HD G!7 is chambered in one of my FAS1 safes that also incorporates a holster so your trigger is protected if you grab your gun in the middle of the night.
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Old August 2, 2011, 07:36 PM   #107
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Always. With one in the chamber it's a deadly weapon ready to be used immediately to defend my life. Without one in the chamber it's a paperweight with potential.
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Old August 2, 2011, 07:44 PM   #108
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If I had to rack my LCP quickly and in danger I'd probably end up shooting myself, or the wrong person.
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Old August 2, 2011, 08:08 PM   #109
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I started carry my pocket TCP chambered, but this is different than HD gun. Tonight I had a "bump in the night"; my alarm went off and I grabbed the gun from my night stand. I bumped the switch of my TLR-1 flashlight got blinded by the flood of light (the switch engaged in permanent position) I had to fumble with it. This gun is not chambered because of the possibility of being still half asleep and hitting the trigger. I have no idea why the sensor picked up thee movement, it never happened before and nobody was there(my dog has no access to the protected area). If someone attacked me I would not have time to get pistol and fire; I would have to fight the attacker first.
I took the flashlight of and will be looking for something with less power.
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Old August 2, 2011, 08:56 PM   #110
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We make 99.99 percent of our car trips without needing our seatbelts. But that 0.01 percent is a nasty female dog, isn't it. I've never needed my seat belt. I've never used a fire extinguisher. I used my homeowners' insurance once, in my fifty years of life, when my house got trashed by a storm. Go figure.-Mr James
Agreed, Mr James. Unfortunately I've made good use of a seat belt more than once and only recently had to replace my first fire extiguisher for reasons not involving a fire. Haven't gotten any help from homeowners' insurance so go figure, chamber loaded seems only natural.
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Old August 2, 2011, 09:34 PM   #111
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Nope - I believe in the right to bear arms, ccw and to defend ourselves and family. It depends on the gun, how I carry it. Been doing that for many years, never a problem. Iv'e had plenty of training, have plenty of good holsters and put many thousands of rounds down range the past 40+ years of shooting and hunting.

Good grief - how much more is the one round, if you haven't solved your problem in 6 how much more help will one more be? FBI hasn't changed statistics because the situations and events happen the same. Same song different verse. Its not that nobody has updated anything. You get about 3 rounds at 3 yards, those are the stats.

Need every second? I plan to show great restraint in administering any lethal force. For one I don't want to hurt anyone unless absolutely necessary and two, use that gun and the reality is that you are probably in for the legal hassel of your life. Use it wrong and you live with it the rest of your life. Be ready, be armed, be smart, be safe, be real. I want all the good people to be armed, but too many seem to believe they are in some action movie.

Too many folks don't look at all sides, and I enjoyed causing some folks to stop and think and getting a few all fuzzed up. An empty chamber pistol is not a paperweight, it is lethal force, safely stored, ready for action in about 2 seconds. I respect firearms, I fear no gun, Class III or whaterver, I've had them all, shot them all, I like them all, but use your head for somthing besides a hat rack.
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Old August 2, 2011, 09:54 PM   #112
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Need every second? I plan to show great restraint in administering any lethal force. For one I don't want to hurt anyone unless absolutely necessary and two, use that gun and the reality is that you are probably in for the legal hassel of your life. Use it wrong and you live with it the rest of your life.
Exactly! Which is a great reason to carry with a round in the chamber. I think my odds of stopping an attack without having to fire a shot---definitely a favorable outcome, right?---are better if I can draw and aim a weapon without having to fumble around with the slide to get it ready and hoping I don't short stroke it. I think the odds of the attack continuing and either you or the attacker ending up shot are greater if you can't instantly present the possibility of deadly force but first have to do a 2 handed operation to get the gun ready.
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Old August 2, 2011, 10:05 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenusdad
...Iv'e had plenty of training, have plenty of good holsters and put many thousands of rounds down range the past 40+ years of shooting and hunting....
Thanks for the silliness. But having read your posts, I see no reason to take your opinions seriously, so I won't.

Have a nice life.
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Old August 2, 2011, 10:57 PM   #114
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We make 99.99 percent of our car trips without needing our seatbelts. But that 0.01 percent is a nasty female dog, isn't it.
I agree. However, from where I sit, this statistic and logic also applies to AD/ND's.

At the end of the day we all carry in order to even the playing field so to speak. So that we can use our firearms to end potential threats. We hope we never have to use our firearms, but we carry just in case we ever need to use it. But carrying concealed does not go without risk.

Those who carry chambered no doubt feel the risk of running into a situation where they would be unable to successfully end a threat without having a round in the chamber is greater than the potential threat of an AD/ND. And those who carry unchambered feel the opposite. I can understand both perspectives.

Without statistical data to back up each positions, we simply carry the way we feel is best for our particular situations.

It would be interesting to see the statistics that outline the number of AD/ND's vs. the number of incidents where those who carried unchambered met catastrophe because of their mode of carry.
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Old August 2, 2011, 11:09 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by predecessor
...Without statistical data to back up each positions, we simply carry the way we feel is best for our particular situations....
Or as we've been trained.
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Old August 2, 2011, 11:19 PM   #116
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Or as we've been trained.
Yes, and a couple of interesting followup question would be:

1. If you are a CCW instructor that holds the class required for a CCW permit in your state, do you instruct those in your class to not carry with a round in the chamber?

2. If you took a CCW class required by your state in order to get a CCW permit did your instructor tell you to not carry one in the chamber?
Just some interesting questions.
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Old August 3, 2011, 08:25 AM   #117
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When after years of carrying without incident, you need to draw your weapon to defend yourself or your family, I am not so sure that it will be easy to remember and instinctively practice proper gun handling, including keeping your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. I think an accidental discharge is more than a slim possibility, and yes, I would consider that an accident, not negligence.
If you pull the trigger with the safety disengaged and the gun goes off, even in a stressful situation, you are still negligent. Period.
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Old August 3, 2011, 10:46 AM   #118
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Years ago, I fell and broke my wrist. This was a deliberate plan as I had signed up to take an injured shooters course - so I took it with my dominant arm in a cast. Learned how to rack and clear with one hand.

Also took LFI-1, Stressfire component with the cast.

Guess what, if you, in a fight, have a hand injured you will find it quite exciting to get the gun into action with your nondominant hand.

The other solution is simply to carry a revolver. It will get you through the first or second mugger but probably not the third zombie.
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Old August 3, 2011, 10:51 AM   #119
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Quote:
To dgludwig: If you think that under the pressure of a life threatening attack you absolutely will remember all that you have been taught about gun safety, I think you are overly optimistic. When after years of carrying without incident, you need to draw your weapon to defend yourself or your family, I am not so sure that it will be easy to remember and instinctively practice proper gun handling, including keeping your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. I think an accidental discharge is more than a slim possibility, and yes, I would consider that an accident, not negligence.
To vito: Stress, even life or death stress, is no excuse for handling a firearm in a dangerous manner. If you fire a gun when you don't intend to, you are being negligent by definition. If you can't keep your finger off the trigger before you are ready to shoot, either get more training or carry a can of mace for protection.
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Old August 3, 2011, 10:54 AM   #120
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Good grief - how much more is the one round, if you haven't solved your problem in 6 how much more help will one more be? FBI hasn't changed statistics because the situations and events happen the same. Same song different verse. Its not that nobody has updated anything. You get about 3 rounds at 3 yards, those are the stats.
Again,
Quote:
...can we assume, then, that you carry your pistol with no more than three rounds in it-and an empty chamber?
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Old August 3, 2011, 11:01 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vito
...If you think that under the pressure of a life threatening attack you absolutely will remember all that you have been taught about gun safety, I think you are overly optimistic. When after years of carrying without incident, you need to draw your weapon to defend yourself or your family, I am not so sure that it will be easy to remember and instinctively practice proper gun handling,...
So during those years of carrying without incident you haven't also been diligently training and practicing? If you have, you should be able to "...remember and instinctively practice proper gun handling...." If you haven't, shame on you.

Last edited by Frank Ettin; August 3, 2011 at 12:45 PM.
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Old August 3, 2011, 11:15 AM   #122
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I believe if your going to carry you SHOULD have one in the chamber and cocked. I once read (i cant remember if it was in my cpl class or in a magazine) that if you encounter a person with a knife and he is 6' tall with an average reach and 10 feet away(most likely it will be closer than that) it will take 1 second.

Thats from POINT OF ATTACK (where the threat starts) to delivery of impact.(the point of strike)


There is little chance you can draw cock and fire that fast.
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Old August 3, 2011, 11:35 AM   #123
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The two Glocks that I use on a regular basis is my G26/CBST for CCW and my G17/FAS1 Safe for HD. Both are chambered/holstered. I don't leave my chambered guns out of a holster, that way trigger is covered. Since I use two separate guns for both tasks I don't need to take either out of their holsters on a daily basis.

This shows how the holster is mounted in the safe and I think it ads a little extra protection from an AD/ND if I need to grab my gun in the dark and half asleep. This is when I think I would be more susceptible to a AD/ND rather than when carrying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcJUGuB35y8

It's easier to grab with my right hand while laying in bed. I usually sleep on my left side.
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Old August 3, 2011, 05:49 PM   #124
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Like I said guys, just get a holster that covers the trigger guard and won't collapse when you draw the gun. Then when you don and doff your gear, leave it in the holster. That way you never touch your trigger except to pull the gun in either an emergency or on the range.

That solves any chance of a ND/AD and you still have your weapon there for immediate use... without having to use two hands to use it!

Simple, no?

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Old August 3, 2011, 07:48 PM   #125
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Why in the world would you not keep a round under the hammer? If you are in a situation you have to draw to save your life you are already at a disadvantage, why give them a bigger edge on you by slowing down your response time. If there is that much worry about an A.D. a auto loader isn't the right gun for carry. Tell him to go to a revolver.
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