tw 54 match ammo info?

bobn · May 2, 2013, 08:11 PM

gents, obtained approx. 120 rounds of tw 54 30 06 match ammo. no crimp on the primer, boat tail bullets. cartons are marked not for combat use. pulled a round apart, my scale shows 46.7 grains.
...the question I have concerns the color of the brass. it is not the usual brass color with the annealed flame colored necks I usually see on US military ammo. instead it is a even almost lime green color. any thoughts? I know some of you older service rifle shooters loved this stuff. (no disrespect here, lol) bobn

farnorthdan · May 2, 2013, 09:46 PM

Sounds like typical old military surplus ammo to me, I have a bunch of TW(twin city) 52 M2 ball AP(armor piercing) that the brass is all the same color, I think it is just the age and being exposed to the elements, I do also have a bunch of M2 ball that's the same age but its all in bando's and its in a lot better shape and the annealing is very obvious.

bobn · May 3, 2013, 01:52 PM

thanks for reply.....also wondering if some of the older service rifle shooters such as Bart or Kraig remember match only ammo having a different color to the cases....thanks again, bobn

Bart B. · May 5, 2013, 10:01 AM

Something fishy about this.

First off, I do not know of any .30-06 arsenal match ammo in 20-round boxes being marked "NOT FOR COMBAT" as they all had FMJ bullets. Only the M852 7.62 NATO match ammo boxes were labeled that way 'cause they had hollow point bullets.

Second, I'm not aware of any arsenal match ammo being made by Twin Cities arsenal in 1954, nor any other year. Lake City and Frankfort arsenals were the only ones that made match ammo as far as I know after 1912.

Third, if the headstamp does not have the word "MATCH" or "NM" somewhere on it, it ain't match ammo.

Sounds to me like someone took some TW54 ball ammo, pulled the bullets and replaced them with a boattail one, then put 'em in a strange box. If those boattail's weigh about 173 grains, they're standard 30 caliber FMJ boattail match bullets loaded by Frankford and Lake City arsenals. If not, they're something else.

If you can, put a picture of the box with its "NOT FOR COMBAT" words showing.

What's the ammo designation on that box? M72 was the arsenal type for .30 caliber match ammo in 1954.

I have no problem being called an "old" service rifle shooter. If folks don't like getting old, maybe they should stop.

bobn · May 5, 2013, 03:24 PM

thanks for reply.

okay edit time...you are correct sir. the not for combat use boxes were lake city, not twin city.
.....the bullets are boattail with no crimping grove. primers are not crimped in place. however I have swaged primer pockets and also cut out the crimp edge before and these cases show no signs of either.
......so who knows what the origins are. I might just pull it down and salvage the components. the weird color of the cases concerns me. thanks again bart, bobn

jonnyc · May 5, 2013, 06:43 PM

The primers might also be corrosive.

Bart B. · May 5, 2013, 09:09 PM

All US military 30-06 ammo made after July 1952 is non-corrosive.

How much do the bullets weigh?

jonnyc · May 6, 2013, 08:03 AM

I believe Match ammo continued to be loaded with corrosive primers after issue ammo was changed to NC.

Bart B. · May 6, 2013, 08:18 AM

jonnyc, you're partially correct. Frankford Arsenal did put their corrosive primers in some ammo after 1952. I'd forgot about that. But TW ammo after mid '52 all had non-corrosive primers.

Beginning in 1953 all GI ammunition, with the exception of some lots of armor piercing and FA Match, would be noncorrosive. The last use of the corrosive FA Number 26 primer was in the FA Match of 1957.

Some of Winchester and Western Cartridge Company's .30-06 and .308 Win. match ammo had corrosive primers up through 1958. They were the most consistant primers they made back then.

May 2, 2013, 08:11 PM	#1
bobn Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2006 Location: midwest Posts: 1,105	tw 54 match ammo info? gents, obtained approx. 120 rounds of tw 54 30 06 match ammo. no crimp on the primer, boat tail bullets. cartons are marked not for combat use. pulled a round apart, my scale shows 46.7 grains. ...the question I have concerns the color of the brass. it is not the usual brass color with the annealed flame colored necks I usually see on US military ammo. instead it is a even almost lime green color. any thoughts? I know some of you older service rifle shooters loved this stuff. (no disrespect here, lol) bobn

May 2, 2013, 09:46 PM	#2
farnorthdan Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2007 Posts: 371	Sounds like typical old military surplus ammo to me, I have a bunch of TW(twin city) 52 M2 ball AP(armor piercing) that the brass is all the same color, I think it is just the age and being exposed to the elements, I do also have a bunch of M2 ball that's the same age but its all in bando's and its in a lot better shape and the annealing is very obvious. __________________ Believe NONE of what you hear; HALF of what you see and ALL you believe Accuracy is king,penatration is queen but why not jack'em in the process if you can.

May 5, 2013, 10:01 AM	#4
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Something fishy about this. First off, I do not know of any .30-06 arsenal match ammo in 20-round boxes being marked "NOT FOR COMBAT" as they all had FMJ bullets. Only the M852 7.62 NATO match ammo boxes were labeled that way 'cause they had hollow point bullets. Second, I'm not aware of any arsenal match ammo being made by Twin Cities arsenal in 1954, nor any other year. Lake City and Frankfort arsenals were the only ones that made match ammo as far as I know after 1912. Third, if the headstamp does not have the word "MATCH" or "NM" somewhere on it, it ain't match ammo. Sounds to me like someone took some TW54 ball ammo, pulled the bullets and replaced them with a boattail one, then put 'em in a strange box. If those boattail's weigh about 173 grains, they're standard 30 caliber FMJ boattail match bullets loaded by Frankford and Lake City arsenals. If not, they're something else. If you can, put a picture of the box with its "NOT FOR COMBAT" words showing. What's the ammo designation on that box? M72 was the arsenal type for .30 caliber match ammo in 1954. I have no problem being called an "old" service rifle shooter. If folks don't like getting old, maybe they should stop. Last edited by Bart B.; May 5, 2013 at 10:55 AM.

May 5, 2013, 03:24 PM	#5
bobn Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2006 Location: midwest Posts: 1,105	thanks for reply. okay edit time...you are correct sir. the not for combat use boxes were lake city, not twin city. .....the bullets are boattail with no crimping grove. primers are not crimped in place. however I have swaged primer pockets and also cut out the crimp edge before and these cases show no signs of either. ......so who knows what the origins are. I might just pull it down and salvage the components. the weird color of the cases concerns me. thanks again bart, bobn Last edited by bobn; May 5, 2013 at 05:12 PM.

May 5, 2013, 06:43 PM	#6
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	The primers might also be corrosive. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

May 3, 2013, 01:52 PM	#3
bobn Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2006 Location: midwest Posts: 1,105	thanks for reply.....also wondering if some of the older service rifle shooters such as Bart or Kraig remember match only ammo having a different color to the cases....thanks again, bobn

May 5, 2013, 09:09 PM	#7
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	All US military 30-06 ammo made after July 1952 is non-corrosive. How much do the bullets weigh? Last edited by Bart B.; May 5, 2013 at 10:18 PM.

May 6, 2013, 08:03 AM	#8
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	I believe Match ammo continued to be loaded with corrosive primers after issue ammo was changed to NC. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

May 6, 2013, 08:18 AM	#9
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	jonnyc, you're partially correct. Frankford Arsenal did put their corrosive primers in some ammo after 1952. I'd forgot about that. But TW ammo after mid '52 all had non-corrosive primers. Beginning in 1953 all GI ammunition, with the exception of some lots of armor piercing and FA Match, would be noncorrosive. The last use of the corrosive FA Number 26 primer was in the FA Match of 1957. Some of Winchester and Western Cartridge Company's .30-06 and .308 Win. match ammo had corrosive primers up through 1958. They were the most consistant primers they made back then.