Universal M1 Carbine Slide for Late Model Carbines

jski · May 7, 2017, 11:01 PM

Those interested in a new late model Universal slide "made of 4130 steel heat treated to 35Rc" can go here.

I bought one of these puppies and replaced the factory slide strictly as a precautionary measure. Fit perfectly as is ... without modification.

jski · May 8, 2017, 12:46 AM

BTW, someone care to comment on "4130 steel heat treated to 35Rc" as a quality of steel? Extremely good? Very good? Etc.

Hawg · May 8, 2017, 08:05 AM

It's good to know I can find one if I ever need one.

Scorch · May 8, 2017, 10:19 PM

4130 is a chrome-moly steel, very similar in composition to 4140 (the "ordnance steel"normally found in US-made firearms).

jski · May 9, 2017, 12:58 AM

Why would our gunsmith here (BKHose) have gone with 4130 v. 4140?

What about "heat treated to 35Rc"?

BTW, it's physically a beefier piece of steel than the factory slide.

jski · May 9, 2017, 01:17 AM

"4130 alloy is noted for its weldability by all of the commercial methods."

4140 is not very "weldable". And this slide has a weld in it.

jski · October 16, 2018, 09:36 AM

Update: Universal M1 Carbine Slide Late Model

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/788585662

Aside: I've always wonder, had the late model Universal M1 Carbine design been implemented with high grade, top quality steel would it have proven to be a better design than the GI design? Heresy! I know.

T. O'Heir · October 16, 2018, 01:52 PM

"...would it have proven to be a better design..." No. It's not just the poorly made, stamped, op handle that makes late model Universals junkers. Mind you, a buddy of mine had one that never gave him any grief.
Real Carbines, from 10 different makers and hundreds of parts makers, were used in several wars in all kinds of really crappy conditions from salt water, sand and the really, really crappy conditions of Korea and just worked.

jski · October 17, 2018, 12:35 AM

The GI M1 Carbine was not without reliability issues:
Forgotten Weapons: KEN HACKATHORN ON THE M1 CARBINE: REPUTATION VS REALITY

And the Universal M1 Carbine late Model has its supporters:
M1 Carbines Incorporated: Post WWII Commercially Manufactured M1 Carbines (U.S.A.)

The dual recoil springs and bolt design seem to be recognized as improvements. The only thing needed for the often criticized late model slide design is "4130 steel heat treated to 35Rc".

Hawg · October 18, 2018, 01:00 AM

I've got a Universal my dad bought new in 69. I've fired no telling how many thousands of rounds out of it and it's still going strong. If it breaks tomorrow it will have been well worth the 99 bucks my dad paid for it.

tangolima · October 18, 2018, 10:31 AM

$99 in 1969 is at least $450 today. Ok for an universal. I saw one in pawn shop for a bit less than that, but wasn't brand new.

The best universal I have seen was literally 100% GI. It would be a great deal for one of those.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Bill DeShivs · October 18, 2018, 01:06 PM

Early Universals used all GI parts on newly-made receivers

tango1niner · October 18, 2018, 02:58 PM

I disagree on the weldability of 4140. Place I retired from did it regularly. It needs to be pre-heated, welded with the right wire and post heated to cool down.

May 7, 2017, 11:01 PM	#1
jski Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2016 Posts: 374	Universal M1 Carbine Slide for Late Model Carbines Those interested in a *new* late model Universal slide "made of 4130 steel heat treated to 35Rc" can go here. I bought one of these puppies and replaced the factory slide strictly as a precautionary measure. Fit perfectly as is ... without modification. Last edited by jski; May 8, 2017 at 12:23 AM.

May 8, 2017, 10:19 PM	#4
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	4130 is a chrome-moly steel, very similar in composition to 4140 (the "ordnance steel"normally found in US-made firearms). __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

May 9, 2017, 12:58 AM	#5
jski Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2016 Posts: 374	Why would our gunsmith here (BKHose) have gone with 4130 v. 4140? What about "heat treated to 35Rc"? BTW, it's physically a beefier piece of steel than the factory slide. Last edited by jski; May 9, 2017 at 01:04 AM.

May 9, 2017, 01:17 AM	#6
jski Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2016 Posts: 374	"4130 alloy is noted for its weldability by all of the commercial methods." 4140 is not very "weldable". And this slide has a weld in it. Last edited by jski; May 9, 2017 at 10:36 AM.

October 16, 2018, 09:36 AM	#7
jski Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2016 Posts: 374	Update: Universal M1 Carbine Slide Late Model https://www.gunbroker.com/item/788585662 Aside: I've always wonder, had the late model Universal M1 Carbine design been implemented with high grade, top quality steel would it have proven to be a better design than the GI design? Heresy! I know. Last edited by jski; October 16, 2018 at 10:48 AM.

May 8, 2017, 12:46 AM	#2
jski Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2016 Posts: 374	BTW, someone care to comment on "4130 steel heat treated to 35Rc" as a quality of steel? Extremely good? Very good? Etc.

May 8, 2017, 08:05 AM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	It's good to know I can find one if I ever need one.

October 16, 2018, 01:52 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...would it have proven to be a better design..." No. It's not just the poorly made, stamped, op handle that makes late model Universals junkers. Mind you, a buddy of mine had one that never gave him any grief. Real Carbines, from 10 different makers and hundreds of parts makers, were used in several wars in all kinds of really crappy conditions from salt water, sand and the really, really crappy conditions of Korea and just worked. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 17, 2018, 12:35 AM	#9
jski Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2016 Posts: 374	The GI M1 Carbine was not without reliability issues: Forgotten Weapons: KEN HACKATHORN ON THE M1 CARBINE: REPUTATION VS REALITY And the Universal M1 Carbine late Model has its supporters: M1 Carbines Incorporated: Post WWII Commercially Manufactured M1 Carbines (U.S.A.) The dual recoil springs and bolt design seem to be recognized as improvements. The only thing needed for the often criticized late model slide design is "4130 steel heat treated to 35Rc". Last edited by jski; October 17, 2018 at 12:54 AM.

October 18, 2018, 01:00 AM	#10
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I've got a Universal my dad bought new in 69. I've fired no telling how many thousands of rounds out of it and it's still going strong. If it breaks tomorrow it will have been well worth the 99 bucks my dad paid for it.

October 18, 2018, 10:31 AM	#11
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,816	$99 in 1969 is at least $450 today. Ok for an universal. I saw one in pawn shop for a bit less than that, but wasn't brand new. The best universal I have seen was literally 100% GI. It would be a great deal for one of those. -TL Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

October 18, 2018, 01:06 PM	#12
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	Early Universals used all GI parts on newly-made receivers __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

October 18, 2018, 02:58 PM	#13
tango1niner Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: NY Posts: 317	I disagree on the weldability of 4140. Place I retired from did it regularly. It needs to be pre-heated, welded with the right wire and post heated to cool down.