45acp question

Big G · July 2, 2009, 08:43 AM

I came across a bunch of TZZ Match brass, should you reduce the load with it, like you would regular military stuff?

goodspeed(TPF) · July 2, 2009, 08:47 AM

I've never done that before, nor have I heard of such a thing. Full power loads for me in TZZ brass. I am unaware if they are intentionally weak. Maybe someone much older and smellier than me will chime in with different information.

oldcspsarge · July 2, 2009, 08:58 AM

TZZ IS Israeli Military Brass....made to match spec = a little more precision.

Great brass.....will take any powder manufacturers approved loads !

Nice find !

margiesex · July 2, 2009, 09:02 AM

Never backed down for this brass - just like the afore mentioned fellas!

God Bless.

Margiesex

And remember: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both, and soon.

Big G · July 2, 2009, 09:06 AM

I am not wanting to load it hot, it is excellent brass.With military brass you sometimes have decreased case capacity(stronger/thicker), therefore the same load in the less capacity case raises pressures. I am trying to find out if theses cases are made heavy just like the regular military stuff or if it is the same as comercial.

csmsss · July 2, 2009, 09:11 AM

.45 ACP has very low nominal pressures as it is, so I can't see any reason to lower the starting loads for this or any other decent brass.

Big G · July 2, 2009, 09:38 AM

My only concern is point of impact changes, you change pressure and you change velocity, which can cause point of impact changes. I am not concerned about the cases being able to handle the loads.

Big G · July 2, 2009, 09:42 AM

I know I am not the only one that has heard of reduceing loads for military brass.Is this brass made to military specs or commercial specs? I guess that should have been my first question.

Sevens · July 2, 2009, 10:01 AM

I have heard of the difference between military brass and commercial brass, but that is typically only in rifle calibers, and it's not even in all rifle calibers. I think it's valid in .308 and .30-06, I'm not sure if it's valid in .223 and I've never heard of anyone seeing a difference from it in .45.

You could grab a handful of mixed brass (Win, Fed, Rem, CCI, PMC, Fiocchi, S&B, whatever) and measure the internal capacity of each of these and find that it varies from small to large. The ugly truth is that you could probably grab a handful of all of the same headstamp and measure those and find a similar spectrum.

Don't forget that you are also talking about .45, coming from most likely a 5-inch barreled handgun that you'll likely shoot at between 7 and 25 yards. This isn't a sniper rifle setup and you aren't bucking wind and sun glare at 500 yards here. Paying attention to details is a great idea, but I think there's a chance you are over thinking this one just a bit.

There's a lot of .45 shooters who mix all their brass and don't pay attention to head stamp. So of our older reloaders can't even READ their headstamps... not due to their age, but do to the fact that their brass is so worn that the headstamp is hardly readable anymore!

Shoot and enjoy, it's quality brass.

Slamfire · July 2, 2009, 10:25 AM

My 45ACP ammo cans are full of mixed headspace brass. Some of which is TZZ. You can reach in and pull out a handfull, and I doubt that you would find in that handfull three cases with the same headstamp. Might find two.

I use the same load for them all.

D. Manley · July 2, 2009, 03:46 PM

TZZ is good stuff...unfortunately, hard to come across in my part of the woods.

SSG-Gibb · July 2, 2009, 04:22 PM

I'd tend to agree with "Sevens" It's more the man behind the weapon when it comes to pistol shooting. Grabbing a hand full of brass out of my 5gal buckets and weighing it out I notice very minimal variances.

July 2, 2009, 08:43 AM	#1
Big G Member Join Date: December 6, 2008 Location: ellisville, MS Posts: 49	45acp question I came across a bunch of TZZ Match brass, should you reduce the load with it, like you would regular military stuff?

July 2, 2009, 08:47 AM	#2
goodspeed(TPF) Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Location: WI Posts: 1,162	I've never done that before, nor have I heard of such a thing. Full power loads for me in TZZ brass. I am unaware if they are intentionally weak. Maybe someone much older and smellier than me will chime in with different information. __________________ It's a trick. Get an axe. http://www.thepiratefleet.com/index.shtml

July 2, 2009, 09:02 AM	#4
margiesex Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2009 Location: Levittown, PA Posts: 210	Nope - me neither Never backed down for this brass - just like the afore mentioned fellas! God Bless. Margiesex And remember: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both, and soon.

July 2, 2009, 10:01 AM	#9
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I have heard of the difference between military brass and commercial brass, but that is typically only in rifle calibers, and it's not even in all rifle calibers. I think it's valid in .308 and .30-06, I'm not sure if it's valid in .223 and I've never heard of anyone seeing a difference from it in .45. You could grab a handful of mixed brass (Win, Fed, Rem, CCI, PMC, Fiocchi, S&B, whatever) and measure the internal capacity of each of these and find that it varies from small to large. The ugly truth is that you could probably grab a handful of all of the same headstamp and measure those and find a similar spectrum. Don't forget that you are also talking about .45, coming from most likely a 5-inch barreled handgun that you'll likely shoot at between 7 and 25 yards. This isn't a sniper rifle setup and you aren't bucking wind and sun glare at 500 yards here. Paying attention to details is a great idea, but I think there's a chance you are over thinking this one just a bit. There's a lot of .45 shooters who mix all their brass and don't pay attention to head stamp. So of our older reloaders can't even READ their headstamps... not due to their age, but do to the fact that their brass is so worn that the headstamp is hardly readable anymore! Shoot and enjoy, it's quality brass. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

July 2, 2009, 03:46 PM	#11
D. Manley Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2008 Posts: 299	TZZ is good stuff...unfortunately, hard to come across in my part of the woods. __________________ *"Old School" ain't all bad...*

July 2, 2009, 08:58 AM	#3
oldcspsarge Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 441	TZZ IS Israeli Military Brass....made to match spec = a little more precision. Great brass.....will take any powder manufacturers approved loads ! Nice find !

July 2, 2009, 09:06 AM	#5
Big G Member Join Date: December 6, 2008 Location: ellisville, MS Posts: 49	I am not wanting to load it hot, it is excellent brass.With military brass you sometimes have decreased case capacity(stronger/thicker), therefore the same load in the less capacity case raises pressures. I am trying to find out if theses cases are made heavy just like the regular military stuff or if it is the same as comercial.

July 2, 2009, 09:11 AM	#6
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	.45 ACP has very low nominal pressures as it is, so I can't see any reason to lower the starting loads for this or any other decent brass.

July 2, 2009, 09:38 AM	#7
Big G Member Join Date: December 6, 2008 Location: ellisville, MS Posts: 49	My only concern is point of impact changes, you change pressure and you change velocity, which can cause point of impact changes. I am not concerned about the cases being able to handle the loads.

July 2, 2009, 09:42 AM	#8
Big G Member Join Date: December 6, 2008 Location: ellisville, MS Posts: 49	I know I am not the only one that has heard of reduceing loads for military brass.Is this brass made to military specs or commercial specs? I guess that should have been my first question.

July 2, 2009, 10:25 AM	#10
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	My 45ACP ammo cans are full of mixed headspace brass. Some of which is TZZ. You can reach in and pull out a handfull, and I doubt that you would find in that handfull three cases with the same headstamp. Might find two. I use the same load for them all.

July 2, 2009, 04:22 PM	#12
SSG-Gibb Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: The Free state (For now) of PA Posts: 60	I'd tend to agree with "Sevens" It's more the man behind the weapon when it comes to pistol shooting. Grabbing a hand full of brass out of my 5gal buckets and weighing it out I notice very minimal variances.