Tritium inserts...necessary ???

voodoo · January 1, 2000, 07:55 PM

Just picked up a 6 volt Surefire forend for one of my 870s. Will soon be adding some rifle sights.

Question: How helpful are tritium inserts, especially with a tactical light already on? Should I get both a tritium front and rear ghost ring, or just a front?

Tritium inserts will cost me an extra hundred bucks. I'm trying to decide whether I need them.

Thanks!

David Schmidbauer · January 1, 2000, 08:35 PM

Ok... let me think this out.

I've got Tritium sight (front & rear) on my AR. I've got Ghost Ring Rear and Tritium front on my Beretta 1201FP3.

IMO, I would just go with the front. The reason being is that a shotfun is a short range weapon. With the proper setup of stock and ghost ring rear when you mount the weapon you will already be looking through the rear sight.

Wherein like on my AR I just use the rear tritiums as verification that I am in fact viewing the front sight through them. Also, with the tritium viles so close to your eye the become very huge looking and translucent.

Just go with the front, try it out and if you think you still need rear then get them.

------------------
Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

[This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited January 01, 2000).]

Dave McC · January 2, 2000, 11:00 AM

Helpful, yes, necessary, maybe not.

The HD shotgun here has a hooded post/ramp/bead sight. The hood serves as a very fast acquisition sight in low light. A touch of white enamel helps also.

IMO, that $100 might be better spent on ammo and range time...

leedesert · January 2, 2000, 11:23 AM

I've been told, and also tried it at home, that with a flashlight, the ambient light that is created is enough to see your sites. If it was so dark that you could not see the end of your gun then you can't see your target either. I tried this with my shotgun and pistol with a surefire 6Z. Guess what. The reflected light was enough to see my sights clearly. I am considering adding some glow in the dark paint (phospherous)to the front shotgun site and on my 3 dot pistol. They will glow just enough to increase visibility.
Didnn't need it in my test though.

If you are outdoors and you can't get any reflected light from your flashlight then nightsites would be useful. Either way you still need a flashlight cause if you can't see your sites you can't see your target.

I've heard to many people say I don't need a flashlight because I have night sites....duh.

dwestfall · January 5, 2000, 12:19 PM

Another vote for front-only.

Rosco Benson · January 5, 2000, 01:54 PM

Tritium sights are useful in a relatively narrow range of lighting, where the light is sufficient to ID one's target, but insufficient to see plain sights. If it is too dark to ID one's target, then a flashlight will need to be used. If the flashlight is used, then plain sights will be clearly silhouetted on the target.

Still, if you have to use the weapon in that narrow range of lighting in whcih they are useful, you will be glad you have them. If you've got the dough, go for a tritium dot up front.

Rosco

Glockmeister40 · January 17, 2000, 10:28 PM

Vote= Front sight only.
I've shot all my weapons in the woods, at night in total darkness.
The tac light illuminates your target , but you cant see your sights.
Pistols may be the exception. The sight radius is so small you can make out white dots/outlines like the glock in low light good enought to shoot. Not ideal but do-able.

pluspinc · January 18, 2000, 05:45 PM

Seems interesting that the man who invented night sights doesn't own a pair and considers them OLD technology. They were invented in 1969. I'm still searching for a REAL shooting that can be documented where they were used. Since 85% or more of shootings are at 21 feet or less and most of those at 10 feet or less I think such need is questionable unless you are living in a movie.
We find some where the sights were ON the gun, but not used. A few have claimed to have used them and videos show that not to be true.
Also if you are faced with a threat you won't be processing a ton of information on trying to look at a gun AND the threat. Known as weapon threat focus (don't even try to claim you can train out of it, science says otherwise) you will ALWAYS look at the threat.
Kinda like boasting Pam Anderson walked by you topless and you know what color her toe nail polish was.
There also isn't the time. As for the olde and badly worn cliche about "identify the target" you dont find many folks that were baffled or confused about who or IF someone was trying to kill them. It isn't that big of a mystery in the real world. We have so many issues to deal with it seems strange we want to make things complicated that don't need to be.
We train hundreds each year in shooting in darkness and low light and there is no need to look at the gun out to 50 feet. Plus if you look at the front sight a darned good chance of night blindness. You don't need that.
A student two years ago was in his crowded bar and three gunmen walked in and shot an employee without warning and said they would shoot everyone if they didn't get enough money. All three were wanted felons.
My student shot BETWEEN customers in the dark bar and hit two of the three with TWO shots. Both died instantly with their guns in their hands.
When the police called me the issue was not the legality but, "how did he do that?" He had no other training. He used a .38 special by the way with 158 grain SWC lead HP's +P's.
In another shooting in Texas our student had, his partner emptied his gun and missed, and Mike fired and hit the armed thug and never looked at the sights.
It is easy to do if we make it simple, drop the toys, gadgets, nonsense and complexity. We shoot BETTER in low light and darkness than we do in daylight which surprises most.
I did a group of Marines for embassy duty and they experienced similar results when it was put to the test and we will do more.
Shooting in the dark is not difficult nor a serious problem if you know what you are doing. KEEP IT SIMPLE. It's not that hard.
Most will disagree but I do this almost daily and have for almost 10 years.

------------------
Specialists in the use and training of lethal force.

David Schmidbauer · January 18, 2000, 09:37 PM

pluspinc,

I understand what you are talking about. One of the drill we run while shooting at night is to stand with your back to a bank of targets. On signal you turn while drawing, while this is happening another shooters illuminates a target (1 of 3) with a "burst" from a Surefire (less then I'd say .5 second). You have to engage that target.

We have ran it in almost total darkness range is 7 yards or less. It is NO problem to put your shots inside a FBI Q target.

I believe it has to do with muscle memory, stance, indexing and bringing these all together when you sight the target and bring gun, body in line with that view and engage.

------------------
Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

January 1, 2000, 07:55 PM	#1
voodoo Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Posts: 140	Just picked up a 6 volt Surefire forend for one of my 870s. Will soon be adding some rifle sights. Question: How helpful are tritium inserts, especially with a tactical light already on? Should I get both a tritium front and rear ghost ring, or just a front? Tritium inserts will cost me an extra hundred bucks. I'm trying to decide whether I need them. Thanks!

January 1, 2000, 08:35 PM	#2
David Schmidbauer Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 396	Ok... let me think this out. I've got Tritium sight (front & rear) on my AR. I've got Ghost Ring Rear and Tritium front on my Beretta 1201FP3. IMO, I would just go with the front. The reason being is that a shotfun is a short range weapon. With the proper setup of stock and ghost ring rear when you mount the weapon you will already be looking through the rear sight. Wherein like on my AR I just use the rear tritiums as verification that I am in fact viewing the front sight through them. Also, with the tritium viles so close to your eye the become very huge looking and translucent. Just go with the front, try it out and if you think you still need rear then get them. ------------------ Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret) NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS "Si vis Pacem Para Bellum" [This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited January 01, 2000).]

January 2, 2000, 11:00 AM	#3
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Helpful, yes, necessary, maybe not. The HD shotgun here has a hooded post/ramp/bead sight. The hood serves as a very fast acquisition sight in low light. A touch of white enamel helps also. IMO, that $100 might be better spent on ammo and range time...

January 2, 2000, 11:23 AM	#4
leedesert Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 1999 Location: Ga Posts: 633	I've been told, and also tried it at home, that with a flashlight, the ambient light that is created is enough to see your sites. If it was so dark that you could not see the end of your gun then you can't see your target either. I tried this with my shotgun and pistol with a surefire 6Z. Guess what. The reflected light was enough to see my sights clearly. I am considering adding some glow in the dark paint (phospherous)to the front shotgun site and on my 3 dot pistol. They will glow just enough to increase visibility. Didnn't need it in my test though. If you are outdoors and you can't get any reflected light from your flashlight then nightsites would be useful. Either way you still need a flashlight cause if you can't see your sites you can't see your target. I've heard to many people say I don't need a flashlight because I have night sites....duh.

January 5, 2000, 12:19 PM	#5
dwestfall Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 1999 Posts: 108	Another vote for front-only.

January 5, 2000, 01:54 PM	#6
Rosco Benson Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 1998 Posts: 374	Tritium sights are useful in a relatively narrow range of lighting, where the light is sufficient to ID one's target, but insufficient to see plain sights. If it is too dark to ID one's target, then a flashlight will need to be used. If the flashlight is used, then plain sights will be clearly silhouetted on the target. Still, if you have to use the weapon in that narrow range of lighting in whcih they are useful, you will be glad you have them. If you've got the dough, go for a tritium dot up front. Rosco

January 17, 2000, 10:28 PM	#7
Glockmeister40 Junior Member Join Date: January 17, 2000 Posts: 5	Vote= Front sight only. I've shot all my weapons in the woods, at night in total darkness. The tac light illuminates your target , but you cant see your sights. Pistols may be the exception. The sight radius is so small you can make out white dots/outlines like the glock in low light good enought to shoot. Not ideal but do-able.

January 18, 2000, 05:45 PM	#8
pluspinc Junior member Join Date: December 30, 1999 Location: Mpls, MN. US Posts: 497	Seems interesting that the man who invented night sights doesn't own a pair and considers them OLD technology. They were invented in 1969. I'm still searching for a REAL shooting that can be documented where they were used. Since 85% or more of shootings are at 21 feet or less and most of those at 10 feet or less I think such need is questionable unless you are living in a movie. We find some where the sights were ON the gun, but not used. A few have claimed to have used them and videos show that not to be true. Also if you are faced with a threat you won't be processing a ton of information on trying to look at a gun AND the threat. Known as weapon threat focus (don't even try to claim you can train out of it, science says otherwise) you will ALWAYS look at the threat. Kinda like boasting Pam Anderson walked by you topless and you know what color her toe nail polish was. There also isn't the time. As for the olde and badly worn cliche about "identify the target" you dont find many folks that were baffled or confused about who or IF someone was trying to kill them. It isn't that big of a mystery in the real world. We have so many issues to deal with it seems strange we want to make things complicated that don't need to be. We train hundreds each year in shooting in darkness and low light and there is no need to look at the gun out to 50 feet. Plus if you look at the front sight a darned good chance of night blindness. You don't need that. A student two years ago was in his crowded bar and three gunmen walked in and shot an employee without warning and said they would shoot everyone if they didn't get enough money. All three were wanted felons. My student shot BETWEEN customers in the dark bar and hit two of the three with TWO shots. Both died instantly with their guns in their hands. When the police called me the issue was not the legality but, "how did he do that?" He had no other training. He used a .38 special by the way with 158 grain SWC lead HP's +P's. In another shooting in Texas our student had, his partner emptied his gun and missed, and Mike fired and hit the armed thug and never looked at the sights. It is easy to do if we make it simple, drop the toys, gadgets, nonsense and complexity. We shoot BETTER in low light and darkness than we do in daylight which surprises most. I did a group of Marines for embassy duty and they experienced similar results when it was put to the test and we will do more. Shooting in the dark is not difficult nor a serious problem if you know what you are doing. KEEP IT SIMPLE. It's not that hard. Most will disagree but I do this almost daily and have for almost 10 years. ------------------ Specialists in the use and training of lethal force.

January 18, 2000, 09:37 PM	#9
David Schmidbauer Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 396	pluspinc, I understand what you are talking about. One of the drill we run while shooting at night is to stand with your back to a bank of targets. On signal you turn while drawing, while this is happening another shooters illuminates a target (1 of 3) with a "burst" from a Surefire (less then I'd say .5 second). You have to engage that target. We have ran it in almost total darkness range is 7 yards or less. It is NO problem to put your shots inside a FBI Q target. I believe it has to do with muscle memory, stance, indexing and bringing these all together when you sight the target and bring gun, body in line with that view and engage. ------------------ Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret) NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS "Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"