Model 41 stove piping

[redlightrich]

@turtlehead, the funny thing is when my gun arrived brand new, the pin that holds the bolt was never peened properly from the factory. There is a thread about it here.
Just racking the slide a few times caused it to come out to the point of the firing pin popping out back of the slide!!
I put it back together, and used a small ball bearing and brass jaw vice to peen it nicely.
Now I need to remove it again!!!! I hope I didn't do too good a job!!!

I will photocopy both, side by side. That is a terrific idea, although, at this point in my life, I can afford to simply buy the upgraded VQ extractor.

It is a good thing however to have a pattern, and the ability to fix it. I suspect that there are a good number of shooters that may be retired or have some extra time on their hands, and would love to fix their own, just for the sake of a project. I respect that.

The Model 41 amazes me. It has a sloppy chamber, it has a sloppy slide, the rim of the round moves sloppily in the bolt, yet it is laser accurate? Even with mediocre ammo, like CCI SV or FED AM?
It does have a wonderful trigger, and feels just right in my hand. Love it!!

Rich

[turtlehead]

Well, I had not ever thought of CCI SV as mediocre ammo and recently bought two cases at $.06 per round. That's 2012 prices! I'm sure some are cringing at the gouging I took... But I'm pretty happy. The pistol seems to like it.

Anyway, the range is open again after two weeks of maintenance. Went and shot about 200 rounds today consisting of 4 different brands. CCI SV, SK Standard Plus, Federal Automatch and some unknown stuff in that order.

The good news is the CCI SV shot great at 50 yards with average groups of 3 inches. Semi rapid fire and not being terribly serious off a Protektor bag. The bad news is the SK shot 2 inch groups... It's what I shoot in my bolt rifle and goes for $.12 per round. On sale. Interestingly, both shot to the same point of impact. So that was cool.

Then came 2 mags of Automatch which seemed to be blowing the lube out of the barrel and causing a surprising amount of smoke. Won't be using any more of that in the pistol. It does shoot pretty well out of the rifle and I have 5 boxes bought during the panic. I'll plink in the desert with that until it's gone.

Lastly 2 mags of whatever it was. Caused two malfunctions. A different version of the previous stove piping. But I'm going to blame these on me and the ammo and not the gun this time. Probably some 60 year old stuff given to me by my shooting buddy. I'm thinking it was weak.

So that's the update. I will be needing a pistol scope to wring some more accuracy out of her. My eyes are not so good and 50 yards is the outer limit for me unaided (using a 3 MOA dot). The gun should do 1" groups without much problem at that range. Will need to design and build a dedicated rest for it soon now that the problems have been worked out.

It's always a good day at the range.

[turtlehead]

4-16x42.jpg

Aim small.

[Jim Watson]

CCI SV $0.06?
Where, where?

[turtlehead]

It was at Sportsman's Guide with free shipping. Just happened to catch the sale.

[Slamfire]

Just to clarify: The spent case extracts fully from the chamber but is then jammed up by the next feeding round before it has a chance to clear the gun.

This is a blowback pistol and all the extractor does is hold the rim against the bolt face. It does not extract the round, residual pressure does that. If however the extractor is worn, insufficient length, and does not hold the rim firmly against the breech face, then cases can fall off, fall forward, and jam the mechanism.

I have been having the exact same troubles in my M41. I may try the Volquartsen extractor. I think the failure to eject is a symptom of a weak ignition system, one that is symptomatic of the design.

I am shooting primarily SK Std plus because this has been the most reliable ammunition in my M41, to date. I notice weak ejection and recoil at times. I believe this is due to primer cake sensitivity. Some ammunition, by brand and by lot, has more sensitive primer cake. I am of the opinion that insensitive primer cake either does not ignite, or if it ignites, does not produce a powerful burn. That would explain weak ejection because the combustion pressures are low.

I have purchased new mainsprings for my M41 and M46. But I did get what I call "stove pipe" jams, where a round does not fully eject but is caught between the top strap and the next round. It takes my leatherman tool to clear the jam. I consider the top strap a source of unreliability since it traps cases. Since I use an Ultradot, I don't need it, but it is there for the rear sight. Since the last match I cleaned out the firing pin recesses and springs. I will see if that did anything.

I did notice some ammunition ejecting better than my SK Std plus, so I am going to play around with more ammunition types. Aguila Pistol has been a complete failure. Very unreliable in ejection and sometimes feed.

[turtlehead]

@Slamfire

Read posts 25, 42 and 45. My only problem seems to have been the extractor.



And this Saturday I will be taking on my buddy and his 10/22 at 100 yards.

[Jim Watson]

Strange. MY M41 has a quite snug chamber. Snug enough to slam fire if you put a round directly in the chamber and drop the slide on it. I won't do THAT again. Empty case with no dent kept as a reminder.

I went through three local Speed Steel matches, perhaps 450 rounds of CCI Standard velocity with NO malfunctions. Fresh Aquila standard seems ok, too.
All I have of Wolf MT or SK Jagd Standard is salvage so I cannot be sure if it is damaged or just too soft for function.

[Slamfire]

@Slamfire Read posts 25, 42 and 45. My only problem seems to have been the extractor.

And this Saturday I will be taking on my buddy and his 10/22 at 100 yards.

Since my last posts I have shot in three Bullseye matches. One a 50 foot indoor and two 2700 outdoor matches. I asked very experienced Bud's what might be causing problems, one that I had not heard of before was a battered breech face. That makes sense for if the rim recess is rounded on the breech face (called the bolt) then the case would slide off just due to extractor tension. Other potential failure mechanisms were a rough chamber, worn extractor.

I examined the extractor hook and found some wear. I did not remove the extractor or spring. I tested extractor tension by pushing a case on to the breech face and it stayed in place. I don't know if this is what Armorer's do, but I think this is a valid test of extractor tension. Because I have wear, I did buy a Volquartsen extractor, but I have not installed it to date. Never know when parts become unavailable.

I also removed the firing pin from my M41 and M46 pistols. The M46 firing pin and spring were quite clean, and I don't recall any systemic stovepipes or failures to eject. I also checked my data books and the problems I had were with the M41. When I removed the M41 firing pin it was coated with brown oil. The firing pin channel was also oily. I wiped out the channel and firing pin and spring. I then took the pistol to the range and have fired 230 rounds in competition. Whereas before I had issues with Aquila Pistol Match, that ammunition fired and ejected strongly. I shot CCI Green tag and SK Standard Plus. I had a stove pipe in one match with the CCI Green tag. The case mouth caught on the extractor hook. Other than that, no failures to eject and no other stove pipe failures. This is with a pistol that previously was very sensitive to ammunition and was giving me frequent malfunctions with Aquila Pistol match.

I must conclude that an oily firing pin and spring rob this mechanism of striker power. I am of the opinion that weak firing pin strikes were causing poor ignition and that was causing the stove pipes. Since to replace the extractor, you must also remove the firing pin and spring, it is very possible that your cure had nothing to do with the extractor.

[turtlehead]

I'm pretty certain it was the extractor. Firing pin was dry.

Another 200 rounds with no failures last weekend. But I found my rear rest was lacking so I'm working on that.

[turtlehead]

Let me correct that. The pin was lightly oiled but not gunked up. I put it back together dry as is my practice. Forgive my poor memory.

But I really do feel the extractor was not gripping the rim as was shown in a previous picture. The new VQ extractor solved that.

[Slamfire]

Let me correct that. The pin was lightly oiled but not gunked up. I put it back together dry as is my practice. Forgive my poor memory.

But I really do feel the extractor was not gripping the rim as was shown in a previous picture. The new VQ extractor solved that.

The good thing is, we both seemed to have cured our similar malfunctions. I agree a bad extractor and ejector will cause stove pipes, because I have had problems in other weapons with those things. I also have had issues with poor ignition due to weak mainsprings. When I started both my M46 and M41 I changed the mainspring and the recoil springs. At an indoor match, one shooter was experiencing stove piping with a very old M41, That was cured when I lent the shooter a spare recoil spring. That recoil spring was one of my older ones, it was slightly shorter, but still use able. It was considerably longer than the recoil spring in the shooter's M41.

This is the first time I have noticed function improvement simply due to cleaning out oil in the firing pin channel. I have started to blow out the firing pin channel with compressed air when cleaning the pistol. I bought an air compressor simply for this job. I may knock out the firing pin once a year, at the end of the shooting season. This is something that I will have to pay attention to in my maintenance procedures and schedules. I will continue shooting my M41 and if stove pipes start happening again, I will replace the extractor and extractor spring and check the length of the recoil spring.

I will have to check my data books but I am firing around 3000 rounds a year through my 22 lr target pistols. Primarily I am shooting the M46, followed by the M41, and once in a while I am using my Ruger MKII.