Best commercial reloading match bullet

fshfindr · July 25, 2015, 02:42 PM

I want to start using my 357 carbine for match shooting. I have learned that my home made bullets are not accurate enough for this application. So what commercial bullets are best. I tried some LRN from Armscor but they too are not accurate enough. The best I could do at 100 yds with the Armscore was about a 6 in group. I got a 4 in group with Nosler LHPs but that needs to be improved too. I guess I'll have to spend more money but which should I get? I'm using H110 in my 357 Ruger 77, if that helps.

g.willikers · July 25, 2015, 04:59 PM

That's a real can of worms there, trying to guess what would be the best bullet for any gun.
You're probably going to have to experiment.
Maybe start with measuring the twist rate of the barrel and then try to determine the best weight bullet for it.
A place to start at least.
But in the quest for accuracy, you might need quite a collection of bullets and powders until succeeding.
Good luck to you in the hunt.

fshfindr · July 27, 2015, 07:05 PM

You were right g.willikers, lots of ammo to test, but it is all fun.
So far here are my results:
Nosler Sporting Handgun Bullets 38 Cal 158g JHP 3-4" grp
Armscor 158g FMJ RN 4" grp
Sierra TournamentMaster 38 Cal 170g 2-3" grp
Rainier LeadSafe Bullets 38 Cal 158g FN 2-3" grp

A little surprising to me since the Sierra's are 28¢ each and the Rainier's are 14¢ each. Also, the Sierra's just look better. This is all off a bench but you must still take into consideration that I (no expert) am the shooter. Next trip I'll put the Sierra's and the Rainier's head to head with the same amount of shots. Everything at 100 yds. I should add that I was having a problem seeing the front sight clearly, it just kept getting blurry. Sometimes my eyes do that to me. I'm still hoping that someone will tell me about their best 357 rifle bullet.

g.willikers · July 28, 2015, 10:28 AM

Although Penn Bullets seems to get lots of complaints about slow delivery, so far they have been very good in all respects.
Enough that they're all I have been buying.
Well, except for the plated bullets required at some of the local indoor ranges.
Those are X-treme, from a local source -also very good.
Just order ahead of time.
http://www.pennbullets.com/
http://www.xtremebullets.com/#

Dave P · July 28, 2015, 11:52 AM

357 carbine match shooting

What kind of matches??? Wooden kitchen matches??

T. O'Heir · July 29, 2015, 02:05 PM

LRN's are rarely match grade bullets. Match grade bullets are usually jacketed or WC's or SWC's. Not RN's.
A Lead HP is a marketing thing. HP's require velocity to expand reliably. ANY lead bullet will flatten upon impact. No need for a lead HP.
However, you need to work up the load for your rifle.

fshfindr · July 30, 2015, 09:15 AM

Dave P should strike his match. For anyone interested it is a high powered rifle match. I just finished my first and learned how bad I am. Ninth out of 11. Most of the others have .223's, with at least one M1A. I have a long way to go, but at least I'll try. Next one is 8/9.

skizzums · July 31, 2015, 07:12 AM

just buy several of the same profile, jacketed rounds in the spectrum of weights. then when you find a weight that shoots better or worse than other, then you can start playing with different bullets in thatapproximate weight. my most accurate 357 carbine bullet is hornady xtp's in 125. i also like the sierra 125gr sportmaster. but i doubt you wanna be buying xtp's and other prmium hollow-points by the boatload, i would personally try out good plated bullets first. although i havent tried it 38/357, the xtreme bullets HP's are very accurate and affordable, at least they are in 9mm

if your goal is accuracy, you may wanna take it down a notch from h110 and use something like 4227. i find the opposite is true from pistol cartridges than rifle in most cases, that pushing them super fast doesn't generally equate to accuracy. usually i'll find the sweet spot in the middle of the data somewhere.

darkgael · August 3, 2015, 05:35 AM

Fish: I think that it is a great thing that you have started into competition. Realistically, you are handicapping your self with the little carbine. Is that all that you have?
I have a .357 carbine and I shoot it well....out to 50 yards. Beyond that, for target purposes.....nah.
I am guessing that the match that you shot was a reduced course, not the full 200/300/600 yard HP match. Please correct me if I am wrong about that.
What have you done for sights? Using the factory irons? How about slinging up?

The neat thing is that you did not finish last.
Pete

fshfindr · August 3, 2015, 04:02 PM

The carbine that I have is the only rifle that I own. The last time I fired a rifle it was an M14 in the 60's . The match that I am shooting is a reduced match. The distance is the same but the targets are different sizes. I first tried a Skinner rear sight but I didn't like it. So I got an NECG N100 rear sight. Up front is a Lyman Globe. I had a sling on it but halfway thru the offhand portion I was told that it was not legal. I don't think I need a sling for the other positions so I took it off. Now today, I tried a new bullet with very good results. Off a rest I could get a 2 inch group, that's the best I've shoot yet. It is a Ranier Leadsafe FMJ, 158g RN. I used 14g of H110. There is a match this Sunday so I'll stick with that load and see how it works out. Next week I may try some diff. loads.

darkgael · August 3, 2015, 06:10 PM

The sling is not legal for use in the offhand stage. It is legal and helpful in the other stages. Prone slow fire benefits a lot from a tight sling. Now that I have said that, however, a sling on your gun is going to change the POI unless you can somehow relieve the pressure on the barrel. Don't know how to do that to a lever gun.
A two inch group.....the ten ring on the slow fire bull is 1.7" in diameter.
About target sizes....yes, they are different sizes up close....at shooting distance, however, they all have the same diameter in moa.
Pete

fshfindr · August 4, 2015, 06:49 PM

Pete, my rifle is bolt action, no lever. I don't understand what you mean by pressure on the barrel. Are you saying that having a tight sling, will contort the barrel? I am considering putting the sling back on for sitting and prone. I just don't see how that will contort the barrel.
ps: I just finished reloading 60 rounds for Sunday.

darkgael · August 5, 2015, 05:50 AM

Fish: My mistake about the type of gun. When I think .357 Carbine, I think lever gun. I see, now, that you did mention in your first post that you are using a Ruger M77. My sloppy reading. Sorry.
Depending on where the sling swivel is mounted, using a sling may put sideways pressure on the barrel. Those fellows using ARs avoid this by installing a free float tube which isolates the barrel from the sling. if your carbine has a free floated barrel and you are attaching the sling to a swivel on the stock, you may be avoiding the problem. (I cannot tell from the picture of the gun at Ruger's website. Is the barrel free floated?) If, however, the barrel is attached to the stock at or near the swivel mount or the stock bears on the barrel at all, then there is a good chance that, once you sling up, get the butt onto your shoulder, slip your hand under the sling...pressure will bend the barrel/stock slightly toward your arm. It may not make a big difference for you. It is something to be aware of as a potential issue.
Do you have a shooting jacket?
Also, I have had a lot of success with Hornady's FTX .357 bullet at 140 grains
Pete

BumbleBug · August 5, 2015, 08:12 AM

fshfindr, You may want to to temporarily mount a scope for load development & testing over sand bags.

Just FWIW...

fshfindr · August 5, 2015, 09:14 AM

I am not sure about freefloating. The barrel does not appear to be attached to the stock at all, the sling attachment is on the stock extension under the barrel. I can't imagine the sling contorting the barrel.
The FTX is a bullet that I have in mind for a latter time. These Rainier LeadFrees are working well for me and I have 500 of them, so for now, no more bullet experimenting. After Sunday I may try some different loads. The scope is a good idea for bench testing. I guess I'll have to get one if I stick with this competition thing. Right now my zero is good but not perfect. Some of the other shooters that I have seen are about like me or a little better. A few are in a different world. They are so much better than me. Probably disappointed if not a bunch of X's. Thanks for the thoughts.

darkgael · August 6, 2015, 04:55 AM

A simple way to check the barrel/stock connection is to take a piece of paper (a crisp dollar bill works) and try to slide it between the stock and the barrel. A free floated barrel will allow you to slide the paper all the way to the receiver.

fshfindr · August 6, 2015, 06:12 PM

I'm pretty sure it is free floating since the plastic stock can be pulled away from the barrel quite easily.

darkgael · August 8, 2015, 04:38 AM

How is the barrel/receiver unit attached to the stock? Where is the attachment?
Pete

Ps: Match this weekend? Ask about sling use, etc.

fshfindr · August 13, 2015, 06:45 PM

The barrel is atached to the receiver. I did use the sling, however, I had a round load sideways and did not get it out on time. I did not realize that I could alibi so when asked why I did not get all my shots off, I just said that I ran out of time. My bad.

July 25, 2015, 02:42 PM	#1
fshfindr Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 188	Best commercial reloading match bullet I want to start using my 357 carbine for match shooting. I have learned that my home made bullets are not accurate enough for this application. So what commercial bullets are best. I tried some LRN from Armscor but they too are not accurate enough. The best I could do at 100 yds with the Armscore was about a 6 in group. I got a 4 in group with Nosler LHPs but that needs to be improved too. I guess I'll have to spend more money but which should I get? I'm using H110 in my 357 Ruger 77, if that helps. __________________ Richard L.

July 25, 2015, 04:59 PM	#2
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	That's a real can of worms there, trying to guess what would be the best bullet for any gun. You're probably going to have to experiment. Maybe start with measuring the twist rate of the barrel and then try to determine the best weight bullet for it. A place to start at least. But in the quest for accuracy, you might need quite a collection of bullets and powders until succeeding. Good luck to you in the hunt. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

July 27, 2015, 07:05 PM	#3
fshfindr Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 188	You were right g.willikers, lots of ammo to test, but it is all fun. So far here are my results: Nosler Sporting Handgun Bullets 38 Cal 158g JHP 3-4" grp Armscor 158g FMJ RN 4" grp Sierra TournamentMaster 38 Cal 170g 2-3" grp Rainier LeadSafe Bullets 38 Cal 158g FN 2-3" grp A little surprising to me since the Sierra's are 28¢ each and the Rainier's are 14¢ each. Also, the Sierra's just look better. This is all off a bench but you must still take into consideration that I (no expert) am the shooter. Next trip I'll put the Sierra's and the Rainier's head to head with the same amount of shots. Everything at 100 yds. I should add that I was having a problem seeing the front sight clearly, it just kept getting blurry. Sometimes my eyes do that to me. I'm still hoping that someone will tell me about their best 357 rifle bullet. __________________ Richard L. Last edited by fshfindr; July 28, 2015 at 09:44 AM.

July 28, 2015, 10:28 AM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Although Penn Bullets seems to get lots of complaints about slow delivery, so far they have been very good in all respects. Enough that they're all I have been buying. Well, except for the plated bullets required at some of the local indoor ranges. Those are X-treme, from a local source -also very good. Just order ahead of time. http://www.pennbullets.com/ http://www.xtremebullets.com/# __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

July 28, 2015, 11:52 AM	#5
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	357 carbine match shooting What kind of matches??? Wooden kitchen matches?? __________________ I think this country is screwed.

July 29, 2015, 02:05 PM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	LRN's are rarely match grade bullets. Match grade bullets are usually jacketed or WC's or SWC's. Not RN's. A Lead HP is a marketing thing. HP's require velocity to expand reliably. ANY lead bullet will flatten upon impact. No need for a lead HP. However, you need to work up the load for your rifle. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 30, 2015, 09:15 AM	#7
fshfindr Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 188	Dave P should strike his match. For anyone interested it is a high powered rifle match. I just finished my first and learned how bad I am. Ninth out of 11. Most of the others have .223's, with at least one M1A. I have a long way to go, but at least I'll try. Next one is 8/9. __________________ Richard L.

July 31, 2015, 07:12 AM	#8
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	just buy several of the same profile, jacketed rounds in the spectrum of weights. then when you find a weight that shoots better or worse than other, then you can start playing with different bullets in thatapproximate weight. my most accurate 357 carbine bullet is hornady xtp's in 125. i also like the sierra 125gr sportmaster. but i doubt you wanna be buying xtp's and other prmium hollow-points by the boatload, i would personally try out good plated bullets first. although i havent tried it 38/357, the xtreme bullets HP's are very accurate and affordable, at least they are in 9mm if your goal is accuracy, you may wanna take it down a notch from h110 and use something like 4227. i find the opposite is true from pistol cartridges than rifle in most cases, that pushing them super fast doesn't generally equate to accuracy. usually i'll find the sweet spot in the middle of the data somewhere. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

August 3, 2015, 05:35 AM	#9
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	HP rifle Fish: I think that it is a great thing that you have started into competition. Realistically, you are handicapping your self with the little carbine. Is that all that you have? I have a .357 carbine and I shoot it well....out to 50 yards. Beyond that, for target purposes.....nah. I am guessing that the match that you shot was a reduced course, not the full 200/300/600 yard HP match. Please correct me if I am wrong about that. What have you done for sights? Using the factory irons? How about slinging up? The neat thing is that you did not finish last. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

August 3, 2015, 04:02 PM	#10
fshfindr Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 188	The carbine that I have is the only rifle that I own. The last time I fired a rifle it was an M14 in the 60's . The match that I am shooting is a reduced match. The distance is the same but the targets are different sizes. I first tried a Skinner rear sight but I didn't like it. So I got an NECG N100 rear sight. Up front is a Lyman Globe. I had a sling on it but halfway thru the offhand portion I was told that it was not legal. I don't think I need a sling for the other positions so I took it off. Now today, I tried a new bullet with very good results. Off a rest I could get a 2 inch group, that's the best I've shoot yet. It is a Ranier Leadsafe FMJ, 158g RN. I used 14g of H110. There is a match this Sunday so I'll stick with that load and see how it works out. Next week I may try some diff. loads. __________________ Richard L.

August 3, 2015, 06:10 PM	#11
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	The sling The sling is not legal for use in the offhand stage. It is legal and helpful in the other stages. Prone slow fire benefits a lot from a tight sling. Now that I have said that, however, a sling on your gun is going to change the POI unless you can somehow relieve the pressure on the barrel. Don't know how to do that to a lever gun. A two inch group.....the ten ring on the slow fire bull is 1.7" in diameter. About target sizes....yes, they are different sizes up close....at shooting distance, however, they all have the same diameter in moa. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member Last edited by darkgael; August 3, 2015 at 06:17 PM.

August 4, 2015, 06:49 PM	#12
fshfindr Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 188	Pete, my rifle is bolt action, no lever. I don't understand what you mean by pressure on the barrel. Are you saying that having a tight sling, will contort the barrel? I am considering putting the sling back on for sitting and prone. I just don't see how that will contort the barrel. ps: I just finished reloading 60 rounds for Sunday. __________________ Richard L.

August 5, 2015, 05:50 AM	#13
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	oops Fish: My mistake about the type of gun. When I think .357 Carbine, I think lever gun. I see, now, that you did mention in your first post that you are using a Ruger M77. My sloppy reading. Sorry. Depending on where the sling swivel is mounted, using a sling may put sideways pressure on the barrel. Those fellows using ARs avoid this by installing a free float tube which isolates the barrel from the sling. if your carbine has a free floated barrel and you are attaching the sling to a swivel on the stock, you may be avoiding the problem. (I cannot tell from the picture of the gun at Ruger's website. Is the barrel free floated?) If, however, the barrel is attached to the stock at or near the swivel mount or the stock bears on the barrel at all, then there is a good chance that, once you sling up, get the butt onto your shoulder, slip your hand under the sling...pressure will bend the barrel/stock slightly toward your arm. It may not make a big difference for you. It is something to be aware of as a potential issue. Do you have a shooting jacket? Also, I have had a lot of success with Hornady's FTX .357 bullet at 140 grains Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member Last edited by darkgael; August 5, 2015 at 06:05 AM.

August 5, 2015, 08:12 AM	#14
BumbleBug Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2013 Location: Near Heart of Texas Posts: 870	fshfindr, You may want to to temporarily mount a scope for load development & testing over sand bags. Just FWIW...

August 5, 2015, 09:14 AM	#15
fshfindr Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 188	I am not sure about freefloating. The barrel does not appear to be attached to the stock at all, the sling attachment is on the stock extension under the barrel. I can't imagine the sling contorting the barrel. The FTX is a bullet that I have in mind for a latter time. These Rainier LeadFrees are working well for me and I have 500 of them, so for now, no more bullet experimenting. After Sunday I may try some different loads. The scope is a good idea for bench testing. I guess I'll have to get one if I stick with this competition thing. Right now my zero is good but not perfect. Some of the other shooters that I have seen are about like me or a little better. A few are in a different world. They are so much better than me. Probably disappointed if not a bunch of X's. Thanks for the thoughts. __________________ Richard L. Last edited by fshfindr; August 5, 2015 at 02:00 PM.

August 6, 2015, 04:55 AM	#16
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Float A simple way to check the barrel/stock connection is to take a piece of paper (a crisp dollar bill works) and try to slide it between the stock and the barrel. A free floated barrel will allow you to slide the paper all the way to the receiver. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

August 6, 2015, 06:12 PM	#17
fshfindr Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 188	I'm pretty sure it is free floating since the plastic stock can be pulled away from the barrel quite easily. __________________ Richard L.

August 8, 2015, 04:38 AM	#18
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	float How is the barrel/receiver unit attached to the stock? Where is the attachment? Pete Ps: Match this weekend? Ask about sling use, etc. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

August 13, 2015, 06:45 PM	#19
fshfindr Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 188	The barrel is atached to the receiver. I did use the sling, however, I had a round load sideways and did not get it out on time. I did not realize that I could alibi so when asked why I did not get all my shots off, I just said that I ran out of time. My bad. __________________ Richard L.