caliber question

[MRogers]

Fairly new to blackpowder. Why is it that my Walker Colt, which is a "44", is able to accept a 45Long Colt conversion? I assume this isn't a very intelligent question thus it seemed most appropriate to point out that I am new to the blackpowder world. Maybe a better question is, why is the Walker a "44" if other "44 caliber" revolvers are .429 versus .454?

Thank you

Michael

[noelf2]

They were called 44s originally probably because of the diameter between lands in the barrel. We measure between grooves now, which will be in the .452 range. Heard other reasons too, but this is the only one that stuck.

[Hawg]

In the old days barrels were bored to .44 caliber and then rifled so the measurements would be taken from the lands, Nowadays bores are measured from the grooves. In the old days bullets were heeled meaning the outside diameter was the same size as the outside of the case like a .22 bullet is today.

[MRogers]

That being said.....so youre telling me that it perfectly reasonable and acceptable that a 45LC conversion kit could be fired in a Walker Colt 44?

[Bishop Creek]

That being said.....so youre telling me that it perfectly reasonable and acceptable that a 45LC conversion kit could be fired in a Walker Colt 44?

Yes, a .454 .45 caliber bullet fits the barrel of any modern .44 cap and ball revolver perfectly. I have fired thousands of rounds of .45 cartridges with my conversion cylinders in my .44 cap and ball revolvers.

[Hawg]

Yes .45 Colt is perfectly happy being fired from any cap and ball .44. The only problem you run into with conversion cylinders is a .38 cylinder in a .36 where you either need to use heeled bullets or hollow based bullets. The .38's are too small for the .36 bore.

[Jbar4Ranch]

Originally Posted by MRogers

That being said.....so youre telling me that it perfectly reasonable and acceptable that a 45LC conversion kit could be fired in a Walker Colt 44?

BUT, the Walker is a black powder design, remember, with no top strap, so it is inherently a bit on the weak side. Shoot only Cowboy action loads or black powder loads. Even then, in my experience anyway, it won't be long until you begin to see some deformation of the rear of the wedge slot. Every time that big ol' .45 Colt bullet slams into the forcing cone and down the barrel, that wedge is taking all the force. Another thing is the revolver has to be disassembled every time to reload the cylinder, which causes a fair amount of wear & tear too.

[Hawg]

BUT, the Walker is a black powder design, remember, with no top strap, so it is inherently a bit on the weak side. Shoot only Cowboy action loads or black powder loads. Even then, in my experience anyway, it won't be long until you begin to see some deformation of the rear of the wedge slot. Every time that big ol' .45 Colt bullet slams into the forcing cone and down the barrel, that wedge is taking all the force.

That's easily fixed by shimming the arbor so the frame and arbor take all the recoil and all the wedge does is hold the parts together like Colt intended it to.

[rodwhaincamo]

.45 Dragoon uses nothing but .45 Colt smokeless ammo in his Dragoon's and these are not loaded to cowboy action levels from what I understand. In fact I believe he loads his above standard factory ammo getting above 425 ft/lbs.

[Hawg]

.45 Dragoon uses nothing but .45 Colt smokeless ammo in his Dragoon's and these are not loaded to cowboy action levels from what I understand. In fact I believe he loads his above standard factory ammo getting above 425 ft/lbs.

He does but he has modded them. The open top frame design is plenty strong enough. The main problem is the short arbors on the repros.

[Model12Win]

Check out the .45 Black Powder Magnum:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Black_Powder_Magnum

That'll put that long Walker window to good use, and rattle yer fillins!!

[Jbar4Ranch]

Originally Posted by Hawg

That's easily fixed by shimming the arbor so the frame and arbor take all the recoil and all the wedge does is hold the parts together like Colt intended it to.

There is absolutely NO WAY to shim the arbor in such a way that the back end of the slot has no force on it when fired. Shimming the arbor/frame hole keeps the barrel/cylinder gap consistent, and that's it. If the wedge takes no part of the force when fired, then the revolver could certainly be fired without it, but I guarantee if you do, the barrel assembly is going downrange. Firing the cartridge doesn't pull the barrel assembly backwards, it pushes it forwards in the same direction as the projectile. All that keeps it from becoming one big, very short-range projectile is the wedge holding it to the arbor.

Originally Posted by rodwhaincamo

.45 Dragoon uses nothing but .45 Colt smokeless ammo in his Dragoon's and these are not loaded to cowboy action levels from what I understand.

Cowboy Action factory loads are typically around 750 fps. At the other extreme, Double Tap and Underwood are claiming 1400 - 1450 fps with a 250-255 grain bullet. Shoot these in a Walker conversion, and they'll be calling you "One-eyed Lefty" for the rest of your days. There's a good reason that top strap was added as cartridge guns using heavier bullets were developed.

[Hawg]

There is absolutely NO WAY to shim the arbor in such a way that the back end of the slot has no force on it when fired. Shimming the arbor/frame hole keeps the barrel/cylinder gap consistent, and that's it.

Think about it. If the arbor is bottomed out in the hole the barrel cant move backwards against the wedge. The arbor and frame take all the recoil, I didn't mean the gun could be fired without the wedge. I said the wedge keeps the parts together which it does.

[Jbar4Ranch]

Absolutely correct. It can't move backwards against the wedge. And why would it?? Upon firing, the force is forward against the wedge. The rear of the wedge. Eventually causing the rear of the slot to peen and deform. How in the world can the arbor (and frame) take all the recoil?? It's only getting stressed at one end? Hold a rubber band between your thumb and finger. Now move your hand back. Feel any force? Of course not, because it's not hooked to anything on the other end. Hook it to something solid, and there will be measurable force... at both ends. Hook it to a toothpick, "just to hold it in place" and pull back, and the toothpick will break. Just as the wedge "just holding the parts together" would if it were made out of balsa instead of steel.

[Hawg]

I guess I'll have to let 45dragoon explain it.

[noelf2]

Jbar4Ranch is right. The pressure is forward, and compels the barrel assembly to fly down range. The wedge does take the brunt, and that's why 45dragoon threads a screw in the wedge slot to tighten up the wedge connection if it gets a bit deformed over time (rather than getting a new wedge). Bedding the arbor properly only ensures a consistent B/C gap.

[rodwhaincamo]

Cowboy Action factory loads are typically around 750 fps. At the other extreme, Double Tap and Underwood are claiming 1400 - 1450 fps with a 250-255 grain bullet. Shoot these in a Walker conversion, and they'll be calling you "One-eyed Lefty" for the rest of your days. There's a good reason that top strap was added as cartridge guns using heavier bullets were developed.

Indeed. Which is why I mentioned the standard stuff that produces about 425 ft/lbs, which is more in the 850-950 fps with a 250 grn bullet. Nobody mentioned Ruger only type ammo. But then the .45 BP Magnum is about that and he hasn't been called "One-eyed Lefty" yet from I gather. But then his rig is very much custom and I haven't a clue what he did, though I had read about it way back when.

[rodwhaincamo]

BUT, the Walker is a black powder design, remember, with no top strap, so it is inherently a bit on the weak side. Shoot only Cowboy action loads or black powder loads. Even then, in my experience anyway, it won't be long until you begin to see some deformation of the rear of the wedge slot. Every time that big ol' .45 Colt bullet slams into the forcing cone and down the barrel, that wedge is taking all the force.

The original paper cartridges sold by Hazard's during the Civil War were shown to contain 4F powder equivalent to Swiss/Olde Eynsford. That's a 211 grn conical over 36 grns of powder. That's well above any cowboy action load I can garauntee.

https://www.shootersforum.com/muzzle...l#/topics/4947

The study of the original paper cartridges was released to the public with permission to share. It's, however, rather lengthy and requires emailing to share unless you join the Yahoo Percussion Revolver Group.

Now I don't study or collect original BP guns so I don't have a clue how the wedge/slot on these are like after use.