Question about 45 Colt black powder loads.

[prontow]

Sorry if this question comes up a lot but I am having trouble finding a good answer.
Just got a Uberti cattleman 45 colt and will be reloading with black powder. I have been shooting cap and ball and flintlock for several years and this will be my first cartridge BP load.
It looks like from what I have seen that about 35-38 grains of FFFg, a greased wad, and a thin card between wad and bullet.
I saw a gentleman use a cork disk between the wad and powder.
So what I am thinking is powder, cork, wad, card, bullet.
Does this sound right?
Looking for advice.
Thanks!!!
George

[Hawg]

You won't get 38 grains in there with all that. I don't load .45 Colt but I load 44-40 and just use powder and a bullet. I don't see any need for all the other stuff.

[Oliver Sudden]

Original 45 Colt cartridge was loaded with 2fg and no wads. Lead alloy should be soft and the lube groove be large with the proper type of lube. I use SPG lube with good results. Don't try to compress the powder by seating the bullet, that will make problems.

[drobs]

Driftwood Johnson has a good thread on loading BP cartridges over at the High Road. Recommend you check it out:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...e-guns.821193/

[Jbar4Ranch]

After my folks were both gone and I moved into their house, I came across a bucket of Snowcap Lard in the basement. I figured I would find some use for it in blackpowder loads, so... I made a small scoop that held a dollop of lard that ended up being about 1/8" thick in a .45 Colt case - powder, .060" fiber wad, lard, bullet. I loaded some of these at least 5 years ago, and they still work fine, so the lard apparently hasn't migrated through the fiber wad to contaminate the powder. The more I shoot these things, the greasier the gun gets - I think I could shoot all month with no problem.

[Stormson]

Admittedly I havent even started to reload yet, so I could be way off base here..

But, heres what comes to mind right off..

Why would you NEED all that? The bullet already HAS a grove for lube...The wad would just be EXTRA lube wouldnt it? And without the lubed wad whats all the rest of it for??

[eastbank]

it depends on how much you are shooting, I shoot a few Winchester 38wcf-44wcf rifles with black powder and for hunting i use only lube(spg) in the grease groove, but for shooting many rounds I use lubed wads with the spg in the bullet lube groove as it keeps the fouling soft. the 38wcf-44wcf cases are tapered and they tend to expand and seal the breech-action from most of the blow back from black powder. eastbank.

[prontow]

Thanks for the replies, that what makes this forum great!
Seems there is no magic formula for loading black powder cartridges. Seems trial and error for what the shooter gun combination works best. With cap and ball shooting I have found that more lube is better and for me a 1/2 tallow, 1/2 beeswax wad lube worked best. My Remington likes to be greasy while shooting.
So I think I will get a mold with deep lube grooves and load them with my tallow, beeswax mixture with no wad and see how it goes. I will also load some with a greased wad, along with the lube in the bullet and try them also.
The cartridges with the wad will get a little more compression on the powder, which should not make any difference.
Time to order a mold and some lead. I have plenty of pure lead, but figured I will need to get the lead mix for a little harder bullet.

[Hawg]

Soft lead will work just fine at bp pressures. If you use a modern bullet with narrow grooves I can see where you might need some extra lube.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I have been loading 45 Colt, and several other cartridges, with Black Powder for years. I suggest you read my post over on The High Road that was referenced earlier. It is a long read, but I have tons of information there. In my not so humble opinion it is worth the read.

In a nutshell, what you are proposing is stuffing 10 pounds of stuff into a 5 pound bag. It won't all fit, and most of it is unnecessary.

Also, not all Black Powder weighs the same. So 35 - 38 grains of powder X may take up more space in the case than powder Y.

My procedure for loading any of the old cartridges with Black Powder is simple. First I determine exactly which bullet I want to use. I choose a bullet that has a very generous lube groove. Most modern bullets do not have a large enough lube groove to keep the bore of a rifle lubed with soft lube for the entire length. If the bore does not remain lubed for its entire length, the fouling will tend to harden near the muzzle into a difficult to remove hard cake that will affect accuracy. You will be shooting a revolver, with a shorter barrel than a rifle, so you can probably get away with a smaller lube groove and less bullet lube. See my comments regarding Big Lube bullets and Pan Lubing.

Once I have determined exactly what bullet I am going to use, I determine how much powder will be needed so the bullet will compress it by 1/16" - 1/8" when seated. That is the amount of powder I use for that bullet.

Yes, I have been compressing the powder with the bullet for years. It works fine. Not for precision long range shooting of 45-70 with a Sharps rifle, but for 45 Colt in a revolver it works fine. The issue is upsetting the base of the bullet when compressing the powder. For Long Range precision work I compress the powder with a compression die first, then place a thin card wad on top of the powder before seating the bullet. This keeps the base of the bullet from being distorted when seated. But for shooting 45 Colt out of a revolver or lever gun it does not matter much. I conducted some tests years ago with 44-40 out of a Winchester Model 1892. I loaded some ammo with a card between powder and bullet, and I loaded some without the card. No significant difference in accuracy. For a revolver, go ahead and compress the powder 1/16" - 1/8" when seating the bullet, after first deciding on exactly what bullet you want to use. I have information in my post about how to do that.

Regarding adding all that other stuff: When I was pan lubing regular hard cast bullets I saw that they did not carry enough soft lube to keep the barrel of a rifle lubed for its entire length with soft lube. So I started adding a 'cookie' of soft lube under the bullet. To keep the cookie from adulterating the powder, I added a thin card wad between the cookie and the powder. Accuracy suffered a lot. Turns out that the soft cookie was getting glued to the back of the bullet, and caused it to fly like a lopsided dart, ruining accuracy. So then I started adding a second card between the cookie and the bullet. This worked, but it was way too much work. That's when I discovered Big Lube bullets and I have never looked back.

If you read my post, be sure to make note of how I prepare a gun for shooting Black Powder.

It's all there.

P.S. you can use either FFg or FFFg with 45 Colt. I use FFg for all my Black Powder cartridges because then I only have to keep one granulation in stock. All other things being equal, you can expect somewhere between 60-100 fps less when using FFg instead of FFFg.

[rclark]

Once I have determined exactly what bullet I am going to use, I determine how much powder will be needed so the bullet will compress it by 1/16" - 1/8" when seated. That is the amount of powder I use for that bullet.

My procedure too. Nothing more to add as above covers it.

[Lee44ShooterCnB]

Check out
https://www.shootersforum.com/big-bo...tin-2017-10-11

[Driftwood Johnson]

He asked about 45 Colt.

That thread is about 45-70.

[the Black Spot]

I use 30 gr by volume 3f with a small (like .5 cc scoop) of cream of wheat on top. Then seat the bullet(250 gr). The bullet is lubed with 50/50 beeswax/olive oil

[prontow]

Finally got around to doing some shooting with my Uberti Cattleman in 45 Colt.
Cast my bullets in a Lee 6 cavity mold out of the 16:1 mix from Roto metals.
Pan lubed the bullets with half beeswax, half tallow mixture. Loaded the 255 grain bullets with 35g of GOEX FFFg powder. No wad, no card just powder and bullet.
Loved the way the gun shot with the black powder as compared to the smokeless bullets I bought.
Forgot any cleaning solvent when I went to the range but fired off about 30 rounds before the cylinder started to get stiff, so I called it a day.
Don't think I will be shooting smokeless in this gun unless I run completely out of black powder.
Thanks for all of the information, you guys helped me bring my gun to life!!

[Driftwood Johnson]

Glad you had a good time.

You don't really have to clean it at the range. Black Powder fouling mixed with corrosive primers used to be a problem. Now that we don't use corrosive primers any more, BP fouling is not as corrosive as most shooters think. I seldom clean my CAS revolvers the same day I shoot them. Within a week is fine. I won't publish here how long I have actually gone before cleaning them.

[Hawg]

I seldom clean my CAS revolvers the same day I shoot them. Within a week is fine. I won't publish here how long I have actually gone before cleaning them.

I have gone nine days after shooting Pyrodex. No wipe down no nothing. I'm sure it could have gone at least a few days longer.