Anyone working German gun dogs

[Jonboy88]

I have heard that a lot of the German gun dogs were breed to work birds and fur both. Was wondering if anyone has seen or heard of them working fur

[Mobuck]

I used to hunt with a guy who had a German Shorthair that just loved to run rabbits. Didn't make any diff if there was a covey of quail or 1/2 dozen pheasants just over the hill, when the rabbit jumped, the race was on.

[mulespurs]

My shorthair will tree racoons and loves to catch them on the ground. He points racoons in tall grass, kinda keeps you on your toes.
Points pheasants really well . I only wish that he had a little more hair coat on him for winter .

[Jonboy88]

Interesting has he ever treed coon at night or was it always in the day time also I have found out that almost all of them were breed to hunt fox would love to know if anyone has ever used them for fox

[Scorch]

My Weimaraner hunts both.

[Jonboy88]

Interesting do you mean coon and fox both if so did you have to do anything different starting out then you would with a hound I grew up hunting with coon and rabbit hounds but I am thinking a pair of gun dogs might be a better fit know also I was under the impression that Weimaraners had pretty much became just show dogs and pets with what you have seen with your dog would you be recamind the breed

[Don Fischer]

My old shorthairs would point rabbit's, porcupines most anything on the ground. My old Hannah pointed snakes. She got a rattler one time, I had to kill it, I don't like snakes! Wirehairs were bred to go both ways. You might want to check with NAVDA, they do it to different standards than AKC or Amer Fld.

[Scorch]

I have heard that a lot of the German gun dogs were breed to work birds and fur both

Interesting do you mean coon and fox both

Now don't go changing the question! You asked if they hunted fur and feathers! Yes, my Weimaraner hunts birds and rabbits.

[mulespurs]

I let the dog out just after dark.
Pretty soon I couldn't find him. Found him treed in the driveway culvert.
So I get down there to look.
More eyes than Africa. But what do now I thought.
I thought that I would try out that last artillery shell from the fourth of July.
Got it out. Put in a pipe, tied the dog back, put my foot on it and lit her off.
What a blast!!!
Went off,Big Kaboom, coons just squirtin out, coons went for parts unknown, dog going nuts,
Kinda darkthirty now, let the dog go.
Grappled one in the house yard, had to kick him back and 45 the coon. All good.
A week later I catch another coon out of the barn and take him in to sell.
The buyer said that he had mange by his tail.
I think he was shot in the ass with an artillery shell.
Your call.

[Jonboy88]

Cool

[alex0535]

Drahthaars have been so tested for hunting ability and form for long enough that they are a true versatile hunting dog. There's VDD clubs where people train them, of a puppy doesn't pass conformation and show usefulness in scent tracking, pointing, flushing, retrieving, etc before they are allowed to breed and produce true drahthaars rather than a typical German wirehair.

Did meet at guy that raised jagdterriers at a bay dog trial, he had around a dozen of them and claimed to hunt everything that was legal to use them on. They were vicious on a hog, fearless, half of these 20-25lb dogs were disqualified for catching 250lb hogs. The others would bite, but let go before that. I got the impression that the jagdterriers doesn't really care what it's hunting, it just wants to kill things or bite them on the nose until it submits.

[brian33x51]

My dad had a large muensterlander he picked up in Germany in the early 90s. Wonderful dog, she caught rabbits and birds, loved to swim, loved people too.

Most importantly that breed never bites down hard on anything, she would continally move objects around in her mouth and bite down lightly. This will crush the bones but not break the coat. She always ran with her nose to the ground (awesome tracker).

Sh loved water, loved chasing balls (ended up with bad knees) and always squeaked her toys only by pushing them with her nose. I really do miss that dog.

[Jonboy88]

Yeah I have heard of the drahthaars and they seem to be the most common one for the stuff I was looking for which was turkey hunting shed hunting blood tracking and fox and coyote hunting drahthaars some to be the one that get used for coyotes but seems like the others can or have done the rest and I was just wondering on the fur work do they have to be bringing up different than the hounds I grew up with

[buck460XVR]

Back in the early 70s I stared hunting birds with GSPs after hunting behind labs as a youth. In the mid 70s, while they were still unknown to most folks in the U.S. I started to hunt behind GWPs/Drahthaars, Basically because of the breeding done to GSPs in a vain attempt to make them competitive against setters and English Pointers in field trials. The attempt was to take a slow, precise, close working, versatile gun dog bred for a hunter on foot and turn it into a dog that flew across the open field and find the most birds in the shortest amount of time, while ignoring other game it was breed to find for centuries. Then there was the indiscriminate breeding done by owners because of the newfound demand for the breed. At that time the only GWPs/Drahthaars in the country were direct or first time litters from Germany.
At that time it was hard for many folks looking for a bird dog to deal with a dog that had deep inbred desire to chase/point deer, squirrels, and rabbits also. In the almost half a century I have owned them, I have never desired for any bird dog that was not a Continental, much less anything besides a GWP/Drahthaar. While being a very demanding dog that needs to be worked hard and often, they are the most eager to please and have the most personality of any dog breed I have ever had the privilege to own or hunt behind. While they are not for everyone, and can be a handful if not shown who is the alpha(this goes for the females too), they can be the best damn hunting partner and friend, any man can have.

[Jonboy88]

So is the pry drive so strong they don't need any special traning on fur game just let them find it?

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by Jonboy88

So is the pry drive so strong they don't need any special traning on fur game just let them find it?

I don't know what "Pry Drive" is, but the drive/desire to find game, either with fur or feathers is strong in most of the continental breeds, as is the strong desire to please their owner. Unlike setters and English Pointers, who hold their head high and primarily use airborne scent, GWPs and GSPs focus primarily on ground scent(altho they too will lift their head and use airborne). This is what makes them slower working and makes them better at small game as opposed to just birds. It's also what makes them work a tad better(IMHO), on birds that run, like pheasant. Still, even the best of dogs need some form of training. Do you want them to chase/flush or point? They need to learn the distances you want them to work from you. While rabbits will at some point come back if they do not hole up, and squirrels/coon will tree while being chased, Game birds generally do not. You want your dog to stay within shotgun range for those. Time in the field during and outside of hunting season teaches dog a lot, obedience needs to be trained at home, and needs to be instilled for their own safety, long before the dog even hits the field for the first time. If not, besides being dangerous, it can make for a frustrating day and one that can ruin a dog. Far too many dogs with poor obedience training are ruined for hunting because they and their owner were confused, frustrated and then got angry the first time out. True Versatile Gun Dogs like GWPs will hot and cold trail deer. Something that is a big part of why they were originally bred. This is something that may have to be "trained out" or it too can lead to a frustrating day and a lost/shot dog. My current GWP does not chase or intentionally trail or hunt deer, but is excellent at blood trailing wounded deer. By law in my state, she must be on a leash......and she has learned what's happening when she smells blood and is on that leash. While she did not have to really be trained as such, a previous Drahthaar I had, needed serious "Break" training before he didn't actively chase deer. Once he learned tho, he never chased a deer again. One may also have to train them what you as a hunter considers "trash" game. While one hunter may want to pursue raccoon and opossum, the next may not. While one hunter will just as soon shoot a squirrel/rabbit with their shottie while out looking for grouse/woodcock, folks like me don't want to waste our hunting time chasing game we do not wish to shoot. There is also those animals like skunks and snakes the dog needs to know to leave alone(but that is for any breed of hunting dog).

One thing many folks do not consider when getting a dog with intense hunting desires like most GWPs and GSPs is the amount of work they desire. Most, especially those young and/or in their prime need to worked everyday. A short walk around the block is not going to do it. The GWP I have now(Just turned 6) demands a 10-15 minute workout of chasing a ball/Frisbee/stick a minimum of three times a day or she will drive you nuts. Give her that and you don't know she is in the house otherwise. Ignore her for more than a day of her play time and she will make your life miserable and gets into trouble. They are not good apartment dogs that don't see the outside except for 3-5 minutes twice a day.

[Jonboy88]

Well I was looking at them because a friend of mine talked about his two weimerners were some of the best fox and coyote hunting dogs he had so since I was thinking about a pair of them for blood tracking shed hunting trukey rabbits and fox and coyotes what kind of training would you straight them out for

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by Jonboy88

Well I was looking at them because a friend of mine talked about his two weimerners were some of the best fox and coyote hunting dogs he had so since I was thinking about a pair of them for blood tracking shed hunting trukey rabbits and fox and coyotes what kind of training would you straight them out for

I having a hard time understanding your question. I think you are asking what would I start them on from your list of different animals. I would start them on what I wanted to hunt most and what was the most important to me. That is....after you have obedience trained the dog, off leash. You need to be able to make the dog stop(whoa) and come back every time, without hesitation. One suggestion I would have for you, since it sounds like you have no prior experience in training a dog, much less a Versatile hunting dog, is to only get one to start with. A good Weim pup is going to be a substantial investment. They are also very demanding and can be hard headed. Keeping your patience and doing a good job finishing one is going to be difficult enough. Better to have one good dog than to wreck two. If Fox and Coyote are on your agenda, I suggest talking to your friend. He certainly must be doing something right if he has two outstanding fox/'yote Weims. Letting your pup run with his dogs would probably be all you would need to do.....again, once you had the obedience training down. Blood trailing and shed hunting is best taught playing search games using one of the dogs favorite toys or treat. Once they know what "go find" means, you only need them to relate the scent of sheds or blood to that command. The more animals you want the dog to find/hunt, the more cross hunting it will do in the field. You train them to hunt rabbits and fox, and while fox hunting you run across a rabbit trail that is stronger than the fox, guess what it will chase? Especially a young dog. Just don't blame the dog.

[Jonboy88]

Cool thanks makes sense that one would be better to start with. The guy that was telling me about his has given up Hunting because of bad Heath but I think there is a club near by for people that work with the versatile breeds so I might be able to find some people working vermion. I wonder if working with hounds would hurt a pup in the beginning there is a running pen out side of town that a lot of hound guy strat pups at. Also if I start with one I am not worried about fox being to much since they have been breed to hunt them but if one was to come up on a coyote do you think that a full grown Weimar could handle it or be able to get away

[Yotecallr]

About 10 years ago, my son bought several Duetch Kutzhaars from vom Riverwoods (Kings Kennels) in Illinois. Wilhelm Engelking the owner was the first to import pure German GS to America. His kennels have won many titles over time. My son actually bought the World Champion GS from him, Rita. It was a lot of fun pheasant hunting here in Iowa with those dogs. There's German Shorthairs and then there"s Duetch Kutzhaars, the definition of purebred.

[Jonboy88]

Interesting do you know if the breeder had dogs that were used for anything besides bird's

[Yotecallr]

Because of their bloodlines, they instinctively kill anything in the field that's not a bird. Rob, the late owner's son told me he shot a bird and the dog took off over the hill. After a long wait, he returned with a dead coyote in his mouth ! I"d call them for the answer to your question.

[Jonboy88]

Do you still happen to have the breeds number

[mwal]

My Drahthaar Greta would hunt anything. She loved rabbits. She also killed a racoon brought it to me then went back into the brush to retrieve the pheasant. She also outright killed one coyote and corned one against a fence allowing it to be shot. This was in SD pheasant hunting. I miss her. They are intelligent dogs with strong natural ability. I did not work her on blood trailing due to legal issues where I live. During a training session she trailed and treed a smaller black bear.
Mwal

[jfruser]

Some years back I inherited a full-grown male GSP with no training other than house training and obedience training. He would find and point on fur and feathers. He would hunt down and kill varmints around the place without prompting. He nabbed several common birds on the wing that were flying too low for their own good. He was happiest when, after a point, the rabbit would break loose and run and he got to tear after them like a bolt of lightning. He was a wonderment to observe.

I have no doubt that were I in the market for a gun dog, I would go GSP.