|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
February 5, 2018, 12:56 AM | #26 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,468
|
Quote:
The reenlistment NCO was trying hard to get me to re-up when I was in Vietnam. I was an E5 at the time. I told him I'd re-up if he'd make me a full bird colonel. If he'd counter-offered with lieutenant colonel or major, maybe even captain (but probably not -- I really wanted field grade) I would have signed, but he just said, "I don't think I can do that." So I said, "Then I don't think I can reenlist." |
|
February 5, 2018, 09:17 AM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
i'm betting Haig's case will never make it to trial. After the feds tack on another charge or two Haig will seek relief in a plea bargain.
|
February 5, 2018, 06:05 PM | #28 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 3,657
|
Quote:
Quote:
“forensic analysis determined that the two unfired armor piercing cartridges from Paddock’s Mandalay Bay hotel room (bearing Douglass Haig’s fingerprints) had toolmarks consistent with the reloading equipment recovered in Haig’s backyard workshop during the October 19, 2017 search.” This honestly should not be too hard for forensics. Yeah, there is a good chance that you could not say with absolute certainty that those rounds were definitely reloading with those dies without the other corroborating evidence (one reason for the seemingly squirrely language, but it is common)... but those dies produce a similar tool mark as to those found on the loaded un-fired rounds. And about 5 witnesses are saying that he sold them AP, API, APIT, etc. ammo, and he advertised it on his website. The toolmarks on the dies and ammo are significant... but really they won't make or break the case. It's just icing on top of the cake compared to the sales records, witness statements, fingerprints on AP rounds, etc. I don't necessarily agree with the law, but everyone here knows you can't manufacture ammo (especially AP ammo) without a manufacturers license. This guy did, unfortunately some of that ammo was found with a mass-murderer, and he got caught. We may not like the law, but we don't condone breaking it either (at least that's my general take from TFL). IMO he earns what he gets. |
||
February 5, 2018, 06:18 PM | #29 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,468
|
Quote:
As to Haig earning what he gets ... if all he gets is a punishment commensurate with what anyone else would get for making ammo without a license, yes. If they try to hang him out to dry in any way for the shooter's actions, then I'm not in agreement. He should not be made into a scapegoat for Paddock. |
|
February 5, 2018, 07:36 PM | #30 | ||
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,835
|
Quote:
Quote:
If that were the case, I don't see the crime, but going by witness statements, that wasn't the case, and he did load AP bullets into cases, and sold them, without the correct Federal license to do that. Am still wondering what, if any, difference there is between "metalugically classified" and the legal definition of AP bullets.....
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
||
February 5, 2018, 08:12 PM | #31 | |
Staff
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
|
Quote:
So a firearms and toolmark examiner might take a case collected in evidence and a exemplar case processed in a certain die and compare striations under moderate magnification. In order to be compliant with the standards set by the appropriate professional society, the examiner will need to be able find an orientation for the specimen and the exemplar in which X striations perfectly match for him to opine that the marks on the specimen case are consistent with having been loaded using that die. But all this is also why someone is almost never convicted solely on forensic evidence. Forensic evidence can provide powerful corroboration, however.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
|
February 6, 2018, 12:04 AM | #32 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 3,657
|
Frank beat me to it, but yeah tool marks are not all the same. I have a reloading die that produces a trademark line on the long axis of .223 brass that is the exact same length on every round resized by that die. I think its my fault, I'm pretty sure a piece of cleaning media got in the die and caused a burr. Nonetheless, I can tell a round run through that die with no magnification in bright sunlight. Is there no other .223 sizing die onmearth that makes that mark? I cant say that for certain, but i can say that i havemt come across one yet. Take this concept, and then multiply it by 100x magnification to capture much finer detail. It is the same concept as patterning the rifling on a fired slug to determine what firearm it was fired from. Its not to say that there is no other firearm in the same caliber in existence that could produce very similar rifling patterns... But the chances are slim, and the gun found on the defendant identified by 3 witnesses just so happens to match the rifling pattern found on the slug pulled from the victims body. That's how that works.
In this particular case, not only did the reloaded rounds have tool marks that matched the ones on the sizing dies used by the defendant, they also had the defendants fingerprints on them. That is very powerful evidence. Quote:
Last edited by 5whiskey; February 6, 2018 at 12:17 AM. |
|
February 6, 2018, 12:30 AM | #33 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 3,657
|
Quote:
|
|
February 6, 2018, 07:16 AM | #34 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,468
|
Quote:
|
|
February 6, 2018, 08:48 PM | #35 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 3,657
|
Quote:
Most folks don't realize it, but in general ATF field agents could care less about guys like us and whether we have a forward grip on a pistol, or a homemade suppressor, or not as long as otherwise law abiding. But... We abide by the law because if something bad happens and we're in the magnifying glass, we will have it stuck to us. |
|
February 8, 2018, 10:58 AM | #36 | |
Junior member
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,995
|
Quote:
|
|
February 8, 2018, 05:43 PM | #37 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,835
|
Quote:
they can't say it is,. and they won't say it isn't, so why include it at all? perhaps simply for the purpose of theater.. Again, I am reminded of the theater in MY COUSIN VINNY... FBI Expert: The tire marks were made by Michelin XGV R75-14 tires Prosecutor: The same size and type found on the defendant's car? Expert: yes Prosecutor: What else? Expert: we took samples from the tire marks and compared them with samples from the defendant's tires... Prosecutor: and what did you find? Expert: That they were identical. Prosecutor (facing jury and slapping hands together for emphasis): IDENTICAL!!! (now everything here IS true, but see how presenting just some information can shape opinion? Based on this testimony alone, its easy to conclude that the tire marks were made by the defendants car. HOWEVER, this follows...) Defense: What is the most popular make, model and size tire sold in the US? Expert (in a soft voice...): The Michelin XGV R75-14..... I realize I'm no expert, don't have all the details, and am looking at it from the outside, but it seems to me that "tool marks consistent with reloading equipment", and the defendant having reloading equipment is a lot like that scene from that movie. It's not just about what was said, but also about what was NOT said.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
February 8, 2018, 06:05 PM | #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
Haig was also charged with conspiracy. Conspiracy with whom?
The feds have Haig's sales records: Feds say Haig sold armor piercing ammunition in over 100 transactrions. See page 9 of the warrant. |
February 8, 2018, 07:50 PM | #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 31, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 2,076
|
Page 8, #15, (lines 5-10)
Clearly indicates that the two rounds of AP with Haig's prints found in Paddock's hotel room, have tool marks that directly correspond to the reloading equipment confiscated from Haig's shed... |
February 8, 2018, 09:30 PM | #40 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 10, 2015
Location: ga
Posts: 321
|
What kind of AP was it anyway?
|
March 8, 2018, 09:05 AM | #41 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 10, 2015
Location: ga
Posts: 321
|
Any updates or new info on this story?
|
March 8, 2018, 09:44 AM | #42 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
Methinks a hearing was held Monday of this week:
Quote:
More: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ter/397621002/ Last edited by thallub; March 8, 2018 at 09:50 AM. |
|
|
|