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Old June 21, 2019, 02:21 PM   #26
Bart B.
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Originally Posted by Unclenick View Post
The Winchester .308 case design for the 1992 Palma matches was specifically to provide enough added powder capacity (about 2 grains) to increase muzzle velocity in a Palma barrel.
Those 1992 Palma 308 cases weighed about 165 grains, same as several other makes then.

I was one of a half dozen former Palma team members developing the load to use with Sierra's first lot of 155 grain bullets. Team captain asked us to use new cases about 165 grains weight. That is what the ammo plant in East Alton made several thousand of. They could have used the case forming dies used to make the great WCC58 150 grain or WCC60 157 grain match cases, but declined for safety concerns.

We ended up metering 45.3 +/- .2 grains of IMR4895 into those new cases, about 97% load density. Muzzle velocity about 3000 fps in 30" barrels, about 2850 in 24" sporter barrels.

Last edited by Bart B.; June 21, 2019 at 02:48 PM.
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Old June 21, 2019, 03:12 PM   #27
Reloadron
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I trained as a EE, but in designing temperature controls I got involved in high R-value insulation and wound up with 11 issued patents in that area. The transition from electrical to thermal is easier than a lot of other cross-overs I can think of. Resistance, conductance, flux. Thermal has it all.
I knew it based on a previous thread and your comments regarding MOSFETs.

Ron

Back on topic now.
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Old June 21, 2019, 08:00 PM   #28
Unclenick
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Interesting about the weight of those cases. They had Winchester's first use of their now ubiquitous semi-balloon head, IIRC. I saw a large number of the once-fired cases for sale on Commercial Row one year, but couldn't buy them at the time. In about 2004 I got a bulk purchase of Winchester .308 Win brass that weighed between 153 and 159 grains. I heard some that were 150 grains existed at one point, but was told they were the Palma cases, which was obviously wrong based on your report.
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Old June 22, 2019, 12:50 AM   #29
noylj
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SAAMi specifies the pressure testing required to meet their standards. What powder, case, primer, or bullet is used by the ammo manufacturer (as long as it meets drawing specifications) is NOT their concern and handloaders are NOT their concern.
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Old June 22, 2019, 06:19 AM   #30
Bart B.
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Originally Posted by Unclenick View Post
Interesting about the weight of those cases. They had Winchester's first use of their now ubiquitous semi-balloon head, IIRC. I saw a large number of the once-fired cases for sale on Commercial Row one year, but couldn't buy them at the time. In about 2004 I got a bulk purchase of Winchester .308 Win brass that weighed between 153 and 159 grains. I heard some that were 150 grains existed at one point, but was told they were the Palma cases, which was obviously wrong based on your report.
Which cases were semi-balloon head?

My match cases head stamped 92 PALMA 308 WIN, WCC58 and WCC60 are conventional head. WCC made another batch of cases for the US Palma Team tryouts in the mid '90's stamped PALMA 308 WIN with conventional heads.

WCC 58 cases are from a lot made with 200 grain FMJBT .3088" bullets and ball powder.
WCC 60 cases are from a lot made with 197 grain OPEBT .3087" bullets and stick powder.
Both packed in white boxes for the US Army teams. Bullet diameters were best for good accuracy in Win 70 broach rifled match barrels with .3085" groove diameters

Last edited by Bart B.; June 22, 2019 at 06:51 AM.
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Old June 22, 2019, 08:12 AM   #31
Jim Watson
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...one member manufacturer who is assigned to making and maintaining its reference ammunition. They then send samples of that lot around to a bunch of different member labs...
My agency (TVA NFDC) was in a similar organization for an entirely different product. Standardized samples of fertilizer were sent to participating laboratories at manufacturers and ag schools. They ran chemical analyses for comparison of their standards and methods.
Looks like a normal method of industrial operation. Everybody wants to know what they are getting, no matter the product.

In Europe, CIP centralized and rationalized the proof laws of all the member countries. There, testing of guns and ammunition is mandatory.
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