32-20 and its progeny 25-20

ligonierbill · October 1, 2015, 07:15 PM

I have been working with Savage 23 'B' and 'C' in these calibers, as well as a couple old revolvers in 32-20. A few observations:

The 32-20 was one of the original rifle/revolver cartridges, but I think that's only useful with black powder. Now, I have completely separate loads. For a 6" Colt Official Police, I'm loading 115 Hunters' Supply cast over HP-38 (based on Lyman) for 926 avg/12.4 SD. Could probably go hotter, but have no reason to do so. Loading the same bullet in the 23C over H4198 for 1,506 avg/7 SD. I guess I could try the revolver load in the rifle, but not sure to what purpose, and I sure wouldn't run the rifle load in my old Colt. Just for fun, I tried Hornady's 100 XTP using their published H110 loads, rifle of course. That little pill goes 2,213/13, not your grampa's 32-20! Not sure what to do with it, though. The 115's should be fine for wild turkeys and such, and this rifle has aperture sights, limiting the range (for me at least). Elmer shot an elk with a 32-20, but he only did it once.

The 25-20 is another story. Pretty limited load data, but Hornady and Speer sell purpose-designed bullets for it. Brass is scarce. I'm loading Speer's 75 gr FP over H4198, also (not published) Sierra's 75 HP. The Sierra loads too long for the mag, but it chambers and shoots fine. Both running about 1,650/13. The 23B I'm shooting has the original open sights, again limiting realistic range.

Fun rounds to 100, maybe 125 yards. Anyone else fooling with these?

**Unclenick** · October 1, 2015, 07:35 PM

I've not fooled with them, but have been tempted. The older I get, the less impressed I am with power for power's sake, and the more I wish I had something along the lines of a Pope false muzzle rifle to experiment with. My eyes don't do front sight focus without assistance anymore, so I don't feel the trusty old 700 Nitro Express benefits from my handling any longer. (And no, I don't actually have one, but at one point in the distant past, I lusted after one just the same.)

Are you in Ligonier, PA? My grandparents lived there in the summers when I was young. Fond childhood memories of shooting off their back porch at an old tree stump serving as a target backer. They had a cottage south of town. Grandpa was a life-long member of the Rolling Rock Club, and an avid fisherman (as was my paternal grandfather). I caught the largest bass of the year in their bass pond in 1961, when I was still 9 years old. Quite an adventure.

ligonierbill · October 1, 2015, 07:41 PM

Grandparents and cousins lived there, and I spent a couple weeks each summer with them. Of course, Fort Ligonier played a part in the French and Indian War, my favorite period of American history. My favorite rifle's caliber would be described as "the ball goes 25 to the pound".

**Unclenick** · October 1, 2015, 07:57 PM

Sounds like me. My dad drove us all from Columbus, OH to Ligonier every summer, and my sister and I stayed for a couple of weeks when he and mom headed back. Grandma took car of us for a couple of weeks more so mom could enjoy a "break". Usually my cousins from my mother's sister were in town for half of that time. Grandma took us all to Fort Ligonier once during the summer stay. Pretty cool place, and the archaeologists kept digging more stuff up, so the displays gradually increased in size over time.

The main thing that struck me about the place as we traveled in each summer was the scent of the evergreens. As we came up 'rt. 30 toward Idlewild Park the scent changed to that of the trees, and my sister and I would get all excited because we could smell that we were getting close.

Clark · October 1, 2015, 08:36 PM

I think there are 4 levels of 32-20 published handloads but only two out there for the 25-20.

I have a number of 25-20s. One with special needs is a Win 92 octagon rifle made in 1900 and rebarreled with a barrel from Winchester ~ 1920, with a little too much headspace, but a great bore.

The special needs are:
1) The firing pin hole is eroded to twice it's original size.
2) I can't see anything with open sights.
3) 1 in 14" twist requires a short bullet to stabilize.

I non invasively clamped a 2x handgun scope to the barrel and worked up loads with Sierra hollow point .257 #1600 with OAL way to long to feed, so I feed single shot. I used LIL'GUN and the CCI 450 small rifle magnum primers ballon bulge pops around 30kpsi.
It shoots at 2250 fps at 28kpsi and get 1" to 1.25" 5 shot groups at 50 yards.

I have in front of me, a bolt that has been bushed and a new firing pin.
I should put them together sometime after hunting season.

ligonierbill · October 1, 2015, 08:44 PM

Hmmm...I have a can of Li'l Gun that I've been working in the K Hornet. Might have to give it a try.

**Mike Irwin** · October 2, 2015, 06:39 AM

I have 2 .30-20 revolvers, a Colt and a Smith & Wesson, and a .25-20 Savage. Fun cartridges!

A pause for the COZ · October 2, 2015, 09:17 AM

I have found, Unless I need it for a specific purpose. I just shoot the same loads in my Colt Police Positive special, Smith and Wesson hand ejector and my Savage sporter in 32-20.

That load is a tack driver at 50-60 yards. Head shots are easy on rabbits.
For sure I can hot rod if I want, But I dont see the point right now.
maybe if I get a wild hair and want to take some coyotes with it.

salvadore · October 3, 2015, 04:33 PM

I load a cast plain base 3118 type bullet over 3.7grs 231, samo hp38. Can't remember what my 5" OP gave me, but my 94 Marlin goes around 1050fps and is pretty accurate in both. A Hornady hbwc works well in both also.

griz · October 6, 2015, 08:25 AM

I got a Savage in 25-20 quite a while back. I like that I can reload cast bullets for it at a bit of a savings compared to the still overpriced 22LR. But I've gotten so used to scopes, or my eyes have faded enough, that I don't use it much anymore. I suppose I could scope the old 23, but it seems to be so against its character.

T. O'Heir · October 6, 2015, 01:31 PM

The 32-20 and its progeny 25-20 are the darlings of the CAS crowd. Historically accurate and no recoil.
The .32 is not just a BP cartridge though. Lots of assorted firearms chambered in it long after BP was sent to the store room. Mine's a 4" Colt Police Positive that was too far gone to shoot when I got it. Given to me by an old aunt who's da owned it. Thing lived in a poorly oiled cloth for most of the 20th Century. Bore looks like 10 miles of really bad road. Suspect from either BP loads or corrosive primers that weren't cleaned right.

bbqncigars · October 6, 2015, 07:29 PM

I shoot my 1894 Marlin ('Sweetie') in 25-20 so much that I bought a progressive press just to keep her in ammo. Favored load is 5.5gr of 2400 behind a 85gr LFP boolit. The only thing that sucks about the cartridge is brass availability. I keep begging Starline to run some, but no luck yet.

David R · October 7, 2015, 05:06 AM

I shoot 32-20 from tc contender. Brass is fragile. Otherwise it's a fine caliber. I shoot hunter silhouettes with it. 1600 fps out of a 10" barrel works all the way out 100 yards. I only shot home cast except the one box of factory I bought. Many thousands of rounds of fun. I have a scope so I have also hunted squirrel and a few rabbit. Make head shots or give up meat.

David

Old Stony · October 7, 2015, 06:00 AM

Just finished loading up almost 1,000 rds. of 32/20. I used Unique for plinking loads for years, but this time I decided to go with 2400. Most of the loads were put together with 115 gr. cast, but I did run off a couple boxes of 100 gr. Speer HP's. I used 8 grains under the cast and 12 grains under the jacketed. This bunch should last me for a while as I don't shoot them as much as I did some years back.
I shoot them out of a Marlin Cowboy, a couple different Winchester 92's, a Winchester 73, Colt SAA's. No shortage of things to stuff them into around here.
I do a little 25/20 stuff around here too, and usually just use cast with 4 Gr. Unique. High velocity is just not one of my goals.....I just shoot them for fun. I think a hog is in my near future with one, and that is why I loaded some jacketed 32/20's.
I just love playing with all of what I call the -/- calibers. I have a 32/40 sitting in a corner with half a dozen loads in the mag., waiting to go hog hunting right now.

October 1, 2015, 07:35 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	I've not fooled with them, but have been tempted. The older I get, the less impressed I am with power for power's sake, and the more I wish I had something along the lines of a Pope false muzzle rifle to experiment with. My eyes don't do front sight focus without assistance anymore, so I don't feel the trusty old 700 Nitro Express benefits from my handling any longer. (And no, I don't actually have one, but at one point in the distant past, I lusted after one just the same.) Are you in Ligonier, PA? My grandparents lived there in the summers when I was young. Fond childhood memories of shooting off their back porch at an old tree stump serving as a target backer. They had a cottage south of town. Grandpa was a life-long member of the Rolling Rock Club, and an avid fisherman (as was my paternal grandfather). I caught the largest bass of the year in their bass pond in 1961, when I was still 9 years old. Quite an adventure. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 1, 2015, 07:57 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Sounds like me. My dad drove us all from Columbus, OH to Ligonier every summer, and my sister and I stayed for a couple of weeks when he and mom headed back. Grandma took car of us for a couple of weeks more so mom could enjoy a "break". Usually my cousins from my mother's sister were in town for half of that time. Grandma took us all to Fort Ligonier once during the summer stay. Pretty cool place, and the archaeologists kept digging more stuff up, so the displays gradually increased in size over time. The main thing that struck me about the place as we traveled in each summer was the scent of the evergreens. As we came up 'rt. 30 toward Idlewild Park the scent changed to that of the trees, and my sister and I would get all excited because we could smell that we were getting close. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 2, 2015, 06:39 AM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	I have 2 .30-20 revolvers, a Colt and a Smith & Wesson, and a .25-20 Savage. Fun cartridges! __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 2, 2015, 09:17 AM	#8
A pause for the COZ Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2012 Location: Braham, Minnesota Posts: 1,314	I have found, Unless I need it for a specific purpose. I just shoot the same loads in my Colt Police Positive special, Smith and Wesson hand ejector and my Savage sporter in 32-20. That load is a tack driver at 50-60 yards. Head shots are easy on rabbits. For sure I can hot rod if I want, But I dont see the point right now. maybe if I get a wild hair and want to take some coyotes with it. __________________ NRA life member. US Army veteran, 11 Bravo.

October 6, 2015, 01:31 PM	#11
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	The 32-20 and its progeny 25-20 are the darlings of the CAS crowd. Historically accurate and no recoil. The .32 is not just a BP cartridge though. Lots of assorted firearms chambered in it long after BP was sent to the store room. Mine's a 4" Colt Police Positive that was too far gone to shoot when I got it. Given to me by an old aunt who's da owned it. Thing lived in a poorly oiled cloth for most of the 20th Century. Bore looks like 10 miles of really bad road. Suspect from either BP loads or corrosive primers that weren't cleaned right. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 1, 2015, 07:15 PM	#1
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	32-20 and its progeny 25-20 I have been working with Savage 23 'B' and 'C' in these calibers, as well as a couple old revolvers in 32-20. A few observations: The 32-20 was one of the original rifle/revolver cartridges, but I think that's only useful with black powder. Now, I have completely separate loads. For a 6" Colt Official Police, I'm loading 115 Hunters' Supply cast over HP-38 (based on Lyman) for 926 avg/12.4 SD. Could probably go hotter, but have no reason to do so. Loading the same bullet in the 23C over H4198 for 1,506 avg/7 SD. I guess I could try the revolver load in the rifle, but not sure to what purpose, and I sure wouldn't run the rifle load in my old Colt. Just for fun, I tried Hornady's 100 XTP using their published H110 loads, rifle of course. That little pill goes 2,213/13, not your grampa's 32-20! Not sure what to do with it, though. The 115's should be fine for wild turkeys and such, and this rifle has aperture sights, limiting the range (for me at least). Elmer shot an elk with a 32-20, but he only did it once. The 25-20 is another story. Pretty limited load data, but Hornady and Speer sell purpose-designed bullets for it. Brass is scarce. I'm loading Speer's 75 gr FP over H4198, also (not published) Sierra's 75 HP. The Sierra loads too long for the mag, but it chambers and shoots fine. Both running about 1,650/13. The 23B I'm shooting has the original open sights, again limiting realistic range. Fun rounds to 100, maybe 125 yards. Anyone else fooling with these?

October 1, 2015, 07:41 PM	#3
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	Grandparents and cousins lived there, and I spent a couple weeks each summer with them. Of course, Fort Ligonier played a part in the French and Indian War, my favorite period of American history. My favorite rifle's caliber would be described as "the ball goes 25 to the pound".

October 1, 2015, 08:44 PM	#6
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	Hmmm...I have a can of Li'l Gun that I've been working in the K Hornet. Might have to give it a try.

October 3, 2015, 04:33 PM	#9
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	I load a cast plain base 3118 type bullet over 3.7grs 231, samo hp38. Can't remember what my 5" OP gave me, but my 94 Marlin goes around 1050fps and is pretty accurate in both. A Hornady hbwc works well in both also.

October 6, 2015, 08:25 AM	#10
griz Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: Middle Peninsula, VA Posts: 1,588	I got a Savage in 25-20 quite a while back. I like that I can reload cast bullets for it at a bit of a savings compared to the still overpriced 22LR. But I've gotten so used to scopes, or my eyes have faded enough, that I don't use it much anymore. I suppose I could scope the old 23, but it seems to be so against its character.

October 6, 2015, 07:29 PM	#12
bbqncigars Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 525	I shoot my 1894 Marlin ('Sweetie') in 25-20 so much that I bought a progressive press just to keep her in ammo. Favored load is 5.5gr of 2400 behind a 85gr LFP boolit. The only thing that sucks about the cartridge is brass availability. I keep begging Starline to run some, but no luck yet. __________________ "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." A. Brilliant

October 7, 2015, 05:06 AM	#13
David R Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2015 Location: The swamps of WNY Posts: 753	I shoot 32-20 from tc contender. Brass is fragile. Otherwise it's a fine caliber. I shoot hunter silhouettes with it. 1600 fps out of a 10" barrel works all the way out 100 yards. I only shot home cast except the one box of factory I bought. Many thousands of rounds of fun. I have a scope so I have also hunted squirrel and a few rabbit. Make head shots or give up meat. David

October 7, 2015, 06:00 AM	#14
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	Just finished loading up almost 1,000 rds. of 32/20. I used Unique for plinking loads for years, but this time I decided to go with 2400. Most of the loads were put together with 115 gr. cast, but I did run off a couple boxes of 100 gr. Speer HP's. I used 8 grains under the cast and 12 grains under the jacketed. This bunch should last me for a while as I don't shoot them as much as I did some years back. I shoot them out of a Marlin Cowboy, a couple different Winchester 92's, a Winchester 73, Colt SAA's. No shortage of things to stuff them into around here. I do a little 25/20 stuff around here too, and usually just use cast with 4 Gr. Unique. High velocity is just not one of my goals.....I just shoot them for fun. I think a hog is in my near future with one, and that is why I loaded some jacketed 32/20's. I just love playing with all of what I call the -/- calibers. I have a 32/40 sitting in a corner with half a dozen loads in the mag., waiting to go hog hunting right now.