Temperature of Gases at Point Blank Range?

G3 · September 1, 2002, 10:22 AM

Hello All,

Does anyone know how hot the gases and the projectile are when fired at contact distance? I'm interested in the pistol rounds such as .45 acp, .357 mag, 9x19 mm, .38 spl., and 22 lr.

Thank you.

Blackhawk · September 1, 2002, 05:14 PM

The gas temperature can be determined pretty accurately by color, but you need a color chart for the powder formulation, and I don't know whether or not powder makers provide them. My guess is in the 1500 degrees Farenheit range

The bullet temperature is harder to estimate because it depends primarily on friction and extrusion heating as it travels down the barrel and secondarily by some heating from the combustion gasses. My guess is in the 200 degrees Farenheit range

hansolo · September 1, 2002, 07:51 PM

Hot enough to REALLY hurt

James K · September 1, 2002, 10:03 PM

Gasses at contact range are hot enough to scorch cloth, but I doubt a person on the receiving end would worry much about the heat. The bullet or the blast itself (as in a blank) will do far more damage than the heat of the burning powder.

Jim

444 · September 2, 2002, 06:53 AM

Not sure why you ask and I don't know the answer to your question. But, when a firearm is fired at contact distance to a human, the propellent gases following the bullet into the wound cause significant damage not from heat but from the ?pressure?. I am not sure that is the right word for it. Blast might be better.

G3 · September 2, 2002, 08:57 AM

Thanks for the replies. I was hoping the info maybe in Hatcher's Notebook.

The reason I ask is that there is debate on another forum about high temperatures degrading the perfomance of Spectra Shield and other synthectic fibers that are used in body armor. I was curious how the newer fabrics would hold up to a muzzle contact gunshot. Supposedly, kevlar will retain is strength even in very high temperatures.

Blackhawk · September 2, 2002, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Gasses at contact range are hot enough to scorch cloth,

Actually, they're hot enough to vaporize cloth, which has an ignition temperature in the 400-500 degrees Farenheit range.

James K · September 2, 2002, 11:48 PM

I smell an experiment coming up; maybe tomorrow if I get time. I'll try several pistol calibers, with and without bullets.

Jim

Blackhawk · September 3, 2002, 12:14 AM

The ones with bullets are going to be best, I'll bet. Powders don't burn right unless they're under pressure, and the temperature is a function of pressure.

I've fired primed brass only into a towel, which resulted in holes and scorching without any ignition of the surrounding area or smoke distinguishable as being from the towel.

There's another experiment I'd like to perform, but I don't have what I need. I'd like to know how exciting cooking off a cartridge base down on a hotplate is. Maybe suspend a piece of plywood a few feet above it. I'm betting that the plywood will be mostly scorched and maybe dented from the slug but nothing major from the slug. My curiousity was aroused in a thread about dropping live cartridges on concrete and, in the unlikely event of a primer strike, how dangerous and spectacular the round going off would be. There's a possibility that the primer alone will discharge the bullet and the majority of the powder will just burn slowly as in the open air.

September 1, 2002, 10:22 AM	#1
G3 Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2000 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 138	Temperature of Gases at Point Blank Range? Hello All, Does anyone know how hot the gases and the projectile are when fired at contact distance? I'm interested in the pistol rounds such as .45 acp, .357 mag, 9x19 mm, .38 spl., and 22 lr. Thank you.

September 1, 2002, 07:51 PM	#3
hansolo Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA Posts: 503	Hot enough to REALLY hurt __________________ PROUD TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

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September 1, 2002, 05:14 PM	#2
Blackhawk Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2001 Posts: 5,040	The gas temperature can be determined pretty accurately by color, but you need a color chart for the powder formulation, and I don't know whether or not powder makers provide them. My guess is in the 1500 degrees Farenheit range The bullet temperature is harder to estimate because it depends primarily on friction and extrusion heating as it travels down the barrel and secondarily by some heating from the combustion gasses. My guess is in the 200 degrees Farenheit range

September 1, 2002, 10:03 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Gasses at contact range are hot enough to scorch cloth, but I doubt a person on the receiving end would worry much about the heat. The bullet or the blast itself (as in a blank) will do far more damage than the heat of the burning powder. Jim

September 2, 2002, 06:53 AM	#5
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	Not sure why you ask and I don't know the answer to your question. But, when a firearm is fired at contact distance to a human, the propellent gases following the bullet into the wound cause significant damage not from heat but from the ?pressure?. I am not sure that is the right word for it. Blast might be better.

September 2, 2002, 08:57 AM	#6
G3 Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2000 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 138	Thanks for the replies. I was hoping the info maybe in Hatcher's Notebook. The reason I ask is that there is debate on another forum about high temperatures degrading the perfomance of Spectra Shield and other synthectic fibers that are used in body armor. I was curious how the newer fabrics would hold up to a muzzle contact gunshot. Supposedly, kevlar will retain is strength even in very high temperatures.

September 2, 2002, 11:48 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I smell an experiment coming up; maybe tomorrow if I get time. I'll try several pistol calibers, with and without bullets. Jim

September 3, 2002, 12:14 AM	#9
Blackhawk Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2001 Posts: 5,040	The ones with bullets are going to be best, I'll bet. Powders don't burn right unless they're under pressure, and the temperature is a function of pressure. I've fired primed brass only into a towel, which resulted in holes and scorching without any ignition of the surrounding area or smoke distinguishable as being from the towel. There's another experiment I'd like to perform, but I don't have what I need. I'd like to know how exciting cooking off a cartridge base down on a hotplate is. Maybe suspend a piece of plywood a few feet above it. I'm betting that the plywood will be mostly scorched and maybe dented from the slug but nothing major from the slug. My curiousity was aroused in a thread about dropping live cartridges on concrete and, in the unlikely event of a primer strike, how dangerous and spectacular the round going off would be. There's a possibility that the primer alone will discharge the bullet and the majority of the powder will just burn slowly as in the open air.