A question for Steyr M95 Experts

DennisCA · December 31, 2014, 10:21 PM

I love my Steyr M95 Carbine -except when I shoot it

(it's kind of a love/hate relationship)

Seriously though the bolt is a b***h to operate - I've used (almost) all lubes known to man-kind (or at least to me) but it is still hard to work. Not so much pushing it forward but more so after the shot (extracting the round).
I've cleaned it completely so It's free of any dreaded cosmoline.

Being I have a limited knowledge in this area can I some experts to chime in on this?

Danke Schon!

DT Guy · January 1, 2015, 12:43 AM

Is it difficult to initially move the bolt to unlock, or to move it when extracting the casing? Could be different issues-

Larry

James K · January 1, 2015, 03:19 PM

I am not sure what was expected. Those rifles are normally fairly hard to operate even when not firing. After firing they can be a real problem as they have little primary extraction so that work that is done with much better leverage by lifting the bolt handle on a Mauser has to be done by pulling the bolt handle on the Mannlicher.

Jim

barnbwt · January 1, 2015, 10:25 PM

You probably have junk or a bur in you chamber that must be forced past using the reduced leverage of the bolt cam. Same thing that plagues many Mosins, but you can beat on those so it's less of an issue. Only other thing it could be is the receiver is warped, but that would be apparent even after unlocking the bolt. Actually, it could also be the bolt head is not being supported properly when unlocked; if your bolt head snaps down when removed from the gun, it could be trying to twist down when retracted, and binding on the rails.

TCB

tahunua001 · January 2, 2015, 12:13 PM

I just use break free CLP and I have had zero issues with mine. as much of a PITA as it is, did you break apart the bolt and clean inside as well?

T. O'Heir · January 2, 2015, 03:22 PM

"...my Steyr M95 Carbine..." Which one and are you using the right ammo?
There's the Cavalry Carbine and the Short Rifle. Both using 8x50R Mannlicher, but there were conversions too that didn't use that ammo.

tahunua001 · January 3, 2015, 12:48 AM

actually the vast majority of carbines were rechambered to 8x56R and the few remaining 8x50Rs are nearly all long rifles.

johnwilliamson062 · January 3, 2015, 03:00 AM

Isn't this indicative of an overpressure?

mapsjanhere · January 3, 2015, 10:34 AM

Isn't this indicative of an overpressure?
It can be, especially if it only shows with specific brands or reloads. In a modern, otherwise smoothly operating rifle it would probably be the first suspicion, but in a 100 year old surplus rifle, who knows.

tangolima · January 3, 2015, 11:10 AM

Deleted

tangolima · January 3, 2015, 12:04 PM

I deleted my first post because I thought I should look at my rifles first. Surely enough I was wrong.

Different from turn bolts, straight pulls' lock lugs have pitch. They are like screw threads. As the action locks up, the bolt also moves forward slowly. As the action unlocks, the bolt moves back slowly, which is the primary extraction. In other words, unlocking and primary extraction are done in one swooth.

You sticky bolt could be caused by rough chamber or the rounds being too hot. Was it factory or hand loads you were shooting? Was there any bright spot on the ejected brass?

-TL

James K · January 4, 2015, 05:03 PM

True about the bolt lugs having pitch, but the force that can be applied using the cams of the straight pull rifle is not nearly as much as that exerted by the force arm of the bolt handle in a bolt action rifle. The straight pull is faster, but you "don't get nuttin' for nuttin", as a wise man once said.

Jim

johnwilliamson062 · January 4, 2015, 08:36 PM

If it really gets stuck:
While kneeling hold the hand guard with your left hand, the bolt firmly with your right and drive the butt of the rifle into the ground continuing the downward pressure exerted by your right hand to continue down.
I was told, by someone here if I remember correctly, that is the way to exert the most force without damaging the rifle.

tangolima · January 4, 2015, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James K

True about the bolt lugs having pitch, but the force that can be applied using the cams of the straight pull rifle is not nearly as much as that exerted by the force arm of the bolt handle in a bolt action rifle. The straight pull is faster, but you "don't get nuttin' for nuttin", as a wise man once said.

Jim

The straight pull is indeed lagging in mechanical advantage, but I wouldn't say they are too far apart from turn bolt. They are in the same order of magnitude at least. It is all in the details.

The camming pitch for primary extraction in 89/11 is very slow. The handle moves back quite a bit for the lock lugs to move fraction of their width, and the bolt head move back the first 1/32" or so. The mechanical advantage is not minute.

On the other hand, certain bolt guns have rather stubby handle, perhaps to quicken the cycling. Mosin nagant is one example. Their mechanical advantage for primary extraction is less than, say, Mauser design.

One is supposed to yank, not to pull gingerly, when opening a straight pull action. The hammering effect aids the operation. I have fired plenty of gp11 rounds from my k31 and 89/11. I don't feel the extraction and ejection noticeably difficult than other bolt guns. GP11 is no wimpy round either.

-TL

DennisCA · January 4, 2015, 11:34 PM

"DT Guy - Is it difficult to initially move the bolt to unlock, or to move it when extracting the casing?"

It's hard when you are trying to extracting the casing (after firing).

The ammo I'm using is this stuff:
[IMG]

[/IMG]

[IMG]

[/IMG]

BoogieMan · January 9, 2015, 02:07 PM

I love mine (hungarian made) except for the sharp but plate. Is it possible that your being to gentle from the onset?
Are you seeing any marks on the ejected case after firing? Have you taken the bolt apart, cleaned and re-assembled? Is it an issue with a empty chamber? If not than can you cycle a cartridge without firing?
I ran a china stone through the corners of the bolt channels when I first got it as it had some rough spots. Its very difficult to overcome any steel to steel binding. I only use a couple drops of synthetic (lucas lube) and work in good before wiping the excess away.

Chester Goode · February 7, 2015, 07:42 PM

It helps if you pull the cocking lug back and then rack the bolt. I know it defeats the purpose of the bolt operation method, but it will keep you from hurting your hand with the bolt handle. Question to those more experienced..... would it help (and be safe) to file and smooth the rail that the bottom of the extractor moves upon up to and stopping near the firing chamber? That seems to be a point where friction makes cycling the bolt difficult.

December 31, 2014, 10:21 PM	#1
DennisCA Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2012 Location: Union City CA (a.k.a. Poople's Republik of CA) Posts: 451	A question for Steyr M95 Experts I love my Steyr M95 Carbine -except when I shoot it (it's kind of a love/hate relationship) Seriously though the bolt is a b***h to operate - I've used (almost) all lubes known to man-kind (or at least to me) but it is still hard to work. Not so much pushing it forward but more so after the shot (extracting the round). I've cleaned it completely so It's free of any dreaded cosmoline. Being I have a limited knowledge in this area can I some experts to chime in on this? Danke Schon!

January 1, 2015, 12:43 AM	#2
DT Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2001 Posts: 959	Is it difficult to initially move the bolt to unlock, or to move it when extracting the casing? Could be different issues- Larry __________________ He who fights and runs away had better run pretty damn fast. Government, Anarchy and Chaos

January 1, 2015, 10:25 PM	#4
barnbwt Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2012 Posts: 1,085	You probably have junk or a bur in you chamber that must be forced past using the reduced leverage of the bolt cam. Same thing that plagues many Mosins, but you can beat on those so it's less of an issue. Only other thing it could be is the receiver is warped, but that would be apparent even after unlocking the bolt. Actually, it could also be the bolt head is not being supported properly when unlocked; if your bolt head snaps down when removed from the gun, it could be trying to twist down when retracted, and binding on the rails. TCB __________________ "I don't believe that the men of the distant past were any wiser than we are today. But it does seem that their science and technology were able to accomplish much grander things." -- Alex Rosewater

January 2, 2015, 12:13 PM	#5
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	I just use break free CLP and I have had zero issues with mine. as much of a PITA as it is, did you break apart the bolt and clean inside as well? __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

January 2, 2015, 03:22 PM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...my Steyr M95 Carbine..." Which one and are you using the right ammo? There's the Cavalry Carbine and the Short Rifle. Both using 8x50R Mannlicher, but there were conversions too that didn't use that ammo. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 1, 2015, 03:19 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am not sure what was expected. Those rifles are normally fairly hard to operate even when not firing. After firing they can be a real problem as they have little primary extraction so that work that is done with much better leverage by lifting the bolt handle on a Mauser has to be done by pulling the bolt handle on the Mannlicher. Jim

January 3, 2015, 12:48 AM	#7
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	actually the vast majority of carbines were rechambered to 8x56R and the few remaining 8x50Rs are nearly all long rifles. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

January 3, 2015, 03:00 AM	#8
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Isn't this indicative of an overpressure?

January 3, 2015, 10:34 AM	#9
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Isn't this indicative of an overpressure? It can be, especially if it only shows with specific brands or reloads. In a modern, otherwise smoothly operating rifle it would probably be the first suspicion, but in a 100 year old surplus rifle, who knows. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

January 3, 2015, 11:10 AM	#10
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,816	Deleted Last edited by tangolima; January 3, 2015 at 11:47 AM.

January 3, 2015, 12:04 PM	#11
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,816	I deleted my first post because I thought I should look at my rifles first. Surely enough I was wrong. Different from turn bolts, straight pulls' lock lugs have pitch. They are like screw threads. As the action locks up, the bolt also moves forward slowly. As the action unlocks, the bolt moves back slowly, which is the primary extraction. In other words, unlocking and primary extraction are done in one swooth. You sticky bolt could be caused by rough chamber or the rounds being too hot. Was it factory or hand loads you were shooting? Was there any bright spot on the ejected brass? -TL

January 4, 2015, 05:03 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	True about the bolt lugs having pitch, but the force that can be applied using the cams of the straight pull rifle is not nearly as much as that exerted by the force arm of the bolt handle in a bolt action rifle. The straight pull is faster, but you "don't get nuttin' for nuttin", as a wise man once said. Jim

January 4, 2015, 08:36 PM	#13
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	If it really gets stuck: While kneeling hold the hand guard with your left hand, the bolt firmly with your right and drive the butt of the rifle into the ground continuing the downward pressure exerted by your right hand to continue down. I was told, by someone here if I remember correctly, that is the way to exert the most force without damaging the rifle.

January 4, 2015, 11:34 PM	#15
DennisCA Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2012 Location: Union City CA (a.k.a. Poople's Republik of CA) Posts: 451	"DT Guy - Is it difficult to initially move the bolt to unlock, or to move it when extracting the casing?" It's hard when you are trying to extracting the casing (after firing). The ammo I'm using is this stuff: [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

January 9, 2015, 02:07 PM	#16
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	I love mine (hungarian made) except for the sharp but plate. Is it possible that your being to gentle from the onset? Are you seeing any marks on the ejected case after firing? Have you taken the bolt apart, cleaned and re-assembled? Is it an issue with a empty chamber? If not than can you cycle a cartridge without firing? I ran a china stone through the corners of the bolt channels when I first got it as it had some rough spots. Its very difficult to overcome any steel to steel binding. I only use a couple drops of synthetic (lucas lube) and work in good before wiping the excess away. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

February 7, 2015, 07:42 PM	#17
Chester Goode Junior Member Join Date: February 5, 2015 Posts: 10	Struggle with M95 bolt It helps if you pull the cocking lug back and then rack the bolt. I know it defeats the purpose of the bolt operation method, but it will keep you from hurting your hand with the bolt handle. Question to those more experienced..... would it help (and be safe) to file and smooth the rail that the bottom of the extractor moves upon up to and stopping near the firing chamber? That seems to be a point where friction makes cycling the bolt difficult.