How much difference does a good trigger make? - Page 2

Wyosmith · September 7, 2018, 10:34 AM

"Good" is a slippery term. It means different things to different people.
However bad, real bad and extremely bad are easier to speak to. They suck, some worse than others.

Any "good" trigger is a HUGE advantage over a really bad trigger in shooting precise shots.

The difference between a good "DCM grade military match trigger" and a set trigger may be little or none, depending on who is doing the shooting. But the difference between either one of them and a 8 pound gritty trigger with a 1/16th inch of over-travel is like night and day.

stephen426 · September 7, 2018, 10:34 AM

I qualified at the Marksman level for high-power matches (brand new to the sport) with a post-ban (no flash suppressor, bayonet lug, or collapsible stock) Colt Ar-15 HBAR. I wonder how much better I could have done if I had better sights and a better trigger. Some of the other guys were shooting "tricked out" ARs with cryo treated barrels and tiny peep sights. Eyes aren't nearly as good now, so every little bit helps.

I have always been a believer that good sights and good triggers really improve accuracy. It is much easier to have good trigger control with a light, smooth, crisp trigger. Even with extensive training and practice, I think the same shooter should shoot more consistently with the better trigger.

Mobuck · September 8, 2018, 08:08 AM

It rained all day yesterday so I swapped out a couple of "crunch and drag" fire control groups. I dug through my parts box and found an AR Stoner "enhanced trigger group".
Just my opinion:this isn't a big improvement over a "good" mil-spec FCG. It's not even close to an ALG "ACT" and still below the PSA "EPT" or ALG "QMS".
I haven't installed my new LaRue and somewhere I have a self contained unit I'm going to stuff into a new lower for use with a 20" Grendel upper.

Wag · September 9, 2018, 11:39 AM

Really glad I saw this thread this morning. Makes me realize I don't know crap about triggers or trigger control. Well, maybe I do, because I tend to shoot okay from the bench. But I've only really ever used factory stuff.

My M&P 15, for example, it strictly stock trigger and I shoot fine with it. But now I'm thinking I may want to test a better trigger.

All the input here is greatly appreciated.

--Wag--

mete · September 9, 2018, 04:58 PM

It's interesting to see the history of triggers . What had been a 'fair' trigger in the past might now be an very good one today !
A 30 second squeeze seems bizarre to me as I trained myself in combat pistol matches to shoot with a ' fast squeeze " Yes there are both fast and slow squeezes and they can be learned . I would want to learn and us the fast and slow squeezes in hunting or combat .I would never today permit anyone to do a trigger job on my guns .

BWM · September 10, 2018, 07:09 AM

I do NOT like a 2 stage trigger or any trigger over 4lb so I have replaced all of them with Timney & Velocity single stage 3lb 31/2lb and one 4lb very crisp triggers and very clean brake I am 78 years young and it has help my shooting by going from 1in to less than 1/2in at 100 yards with good hand loads

Mobuck · September 10, 2018, 07:22 AM

With a very light pull trigger, a shooter may turn into a trigger "snatcher" rather than a trigger "squeezer". This may work fine for hunting but won't make the grade in competition(unless you're VERY good at it) nor will it give the best groups when using a bench.

zeke · September 10, 2018, 07:58 AM

Switching out a bad trigger can make a significant difference. Like some, prefer a clean 2 stage with about 3-4 lb clean break. Am preferring the clean break over the lightness.

Ricklin · September 10, 2018, 08:16 AM

Like most everyone else here, I shoot better groups with a good trigger.

It's interesting to note that a really good shooter (not me) will not be impacted as much by a "good trigger" as will the average Joe.

I see a lot of folks post about how they shoot their 1911 better than other pistols. Duhh... Most 1911's have comparatively good or at least decent triggers.
I think a lot of the popularity of the 1911 can be attributed to the single action trigger.

Again painting with a broad brush it takes a lot more time, experience, and practice to become a decent marksman with a handgun vs. a rifle. The 1911 pattern and it's single action trigger make it an easier pistol to shoot well.

5whiskey · September 10, 2018, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Of course everyone is a little different but it has been an article of faith among shooters (and gunwriters) for longer than I have been alive (and probably a couple times over) that most people can shoot more accurately with crappy sights and a good trigger than they can with good sights and a crappy trigger.

I would be the exception to that rule. I like good triggers, but I can usually shoot a standard trigger nearly as well. As others have said, I must concentrate a good deal more on good trigger pull, but can shoot well with a standard trigger. Give me good sights though. Especially if we're talking iron sights.

Shootrj2003 · October 1, 2018, 10:00 AM

Really,should it be a surprise that a good trigger is maybe not neccesary for shooting but is a no.1 assist to fine shooting?however, while the rifles I shot in the Marines were not ,perhaps match grade,I never had a gritty hard trigger either,if we did it was quickly resolved by our armorer,I shot sharpshooter with the m14 and m16a2and expert with my .45 -with weapons I carried every day some were pretty old but well maintained,(.45's) some were made by Mattel (m16s) but well maintained also.C1/2 1st Bn 2nd Mar. 2 nd Mar Div.

September 7, 2018, 10:34 AM	#27
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	I qualified at the Marksman level for high-power matches (brand new to the sport) with a post-ban (no flash suppressor, bayonet lug, or collapsible stock) Colt Ar-15 HBAR. I wonder how much better I could have done if I had better sights and a better trigger. Some of the other guys were shooting "tricked out" ARs with cryo treated barrels and tiny peep sights. Eyes aren't nearly as good now, so every little bit helps. I have always been a believer that good sights and good triggers really improve accuracy. It is much easier to have good trigger control with a light, smooth, crisp trigger. Even with extensive training and practice, I think the same shooter should shoot more consistently with the better trigger. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

September 9, 2018, 11:39 AM	#29
Wag Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2010 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 988	Really glad I saw this thread this morning. Makes me realize I don't know crap about triggers or trigger control. Well, maybe I do, because I tend to shoot okay from the bench. But I've only really ever used factory stuff. My M&P 15, for example, it strictly stock trigger and I shoot fine with it. But now I'm thinking I may want to test a better trigger. All the input here is greatly appreciated. --Wag-- __________________ "Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.

September 9, 2018, 04:58 PM	#30
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	It's interesting to see the history of triggers . What had been a 'fair' trigger in the past might now be an very good one today ! A 30 second squeeze seems bizarre to me as I trained myself in combat pistol matches to shoot with a ' fast squeeze " Yes there are both fast and slow squeezes and they can be learned . I would want to learn and us the fast and slow squeezes in hunting or combat .I would never today permit anyone to do a trigger job on my guns . __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

September 10, 2018, 07:09 AM	#31
BWM Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2013 Location: SW IN Posts: 438	I do NOT like a 2 stage trigger or any trigger over 4lb so I have replaced all of them with Timney & Velocity single stage 3lb 31/2lb and one 4lb very crisp triggers and very clean brake I am 78 years young and it has help my shooting by going from 1in to less than 1/2in at 100 yards with good hand loads __________________ Man that likes guns. Navy. USS Ponchatoula AO 148 USS Vesuvius AE 15

September 10, 2018, 08:16 AM	#34
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,011	Like everyone else Like most everyone else here, I shoot better groups with a good trigger. It's interesting to note that a really good shooter (not me) will not be impacted as much by a "good trigger" as will the average Joe. I see a lot of folks post about how they shoot their 1911 better than other pistols. Duhh... Most 1911's have comparatively good or at least decent triggers. I think a lot of the popularity of the 1911 can be attributed to the single action trigger. Again painting with a broad brush it takes a lot more time, experience, and practice to become a decent marksman with a handgun vs. a rifle. The 1911 pattern and it's single action trigger make it an easier pistol to shoot well. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

September 7, 2018, 10:34 AM	#26
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	"Good" is a slippery term. It means different things to different people. However bad, real bad and extremely bad are easier to speak to. They suck, some worse than others. Any "good" trigger is a HUGE advantage over a really bad trigger in shooting precise shots. The difference between a good "DCM grade military match trigger" and a set trigger may be little or none, depending on who is doing the shooting. But the difference between either one of them and a 8 pound gritty trigger with a 1/16th inch of over-travel is like night and day.

September 8, 2018, 08:08 AM	#28
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	It rained all day yesterday so I swapped out a couple of "crunch and drag" fire control groups. I dug through my parts box and found an AR Stoner "enhanced trigger group". Just my opinion:this isn't a big improvement over a "good" mil-spec FCG. It's not even close to an ALG "ACT" and still below the PSA "EPT" or ALG "QMS". I haven't installed my new LaRue and somewhere I have a self contained unit I'm going to stuff into a new lower for use with a 20" Grendel upper.

September 10, 2018, 07:22 AM	#32
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	With a very light pull trigger, a shooter may turn into a trigger "snatcher" rather than a trigger "squeezer". This may work fine for hunting but won't make the grade in competition(unless you're VERY good at it) nor will it give the best groups when using a bench.

September 10, 2018, 07:58 AM	#33
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	Switching out a bad trigger can make a significant difference. Like some, prefer a clean 2 stage with about 3-4 lb clean break. Am preferring the clean break over the lightness.

October 1, 2018, 10:00 AM	#36
Shootrj2003 Member Join Date: August 12, 2007 Posts: 24	Really,should it be a surprise that a good trigger is maybe not neccesary for shooting but is a no.1 assist to fine shooting?however, while the rifles I shot in the Marines were not ,perhaps match grade,I never had a gritty hard trigger either,if we did it was quickly resolved by our armorer,I shot sharpshooter with the m14 and m16a2and expert with my .45 -with weapons I carried every day some were pretty old but well maintained,(.45's) some were made by Mattel (m16s) but well maintained also.C1/2 1st Bn 2nd Mar. 2 nd Mar Div.