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March 4, 2009, 03:00 PM | #1 |
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Join Date: December 9, 2008
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What is wrong with my GP100?
OK, so I have a GP100 that I have had for about a year now. In that time, I have had it completely apart a few times, once to put in a set of Wilson Combat springs and a couple times for thorough cleaning and just to see how it works. I always get it back together with no problems. Except this time...
So, I take it apart this time to polish the trigger a little just to get the corners off the edges to make it more comfortable for extended shooting sessions. When I tried to put it back together, I couldn't get the pawl and striker and everything to line up. I tried for an hour or better and couldn't get it to work. So I gave up and took it to my gunsmith. He tried for 9 hours and could not get it to work. I bring it home and planned on sending it to the factory. Well, then I decided what the heck, if I am sending it to the factory, I might as well mess around with it some more. I took it apart again, and now can get it back together, but here is what is does. When it's apart, it seems like all the parts are in the right place, everything moves as it should, and the springs seem to be at full strength. When I put it back together, the cylinder latch does not raise up all the way and will not lock the cylinder in place. When I work the hammer, it will rotate the cylinder but again, the cylinder rotates freely counterclockwise, but the pawl hand will catch it and keep it from rotating clockwise (these directions are as you look down the barrel in the shooting direction). If I pull the trigger, it does not engage the hammer, so the trigger will go all the way back and the hammer never moves. My gunsmith and I have both been over the exploded view a hundred times, and cannot find any parts missing or in the wrong place. Any ideas to try to save me a couple months without my favorite pistol? |
March 4, 2009, 03:18 PM | #2 |
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First, I wouldn't have the guts to send back a gun I've taken apart that is in peace's. Second, if you did, I wouldn't blame Ruger to charge you for they're service's.
Maybe "grease" (thick) up all the parts so they stay in there proper places as you "Reassemble" it. Then if that works, I would heat up (No grips) the gun and melt the grease out using the lowest heat (170*F) sitting on your oven. Sounds crazy? Maybe, but if it works, it works. That or use a non corrosive solvent like Break Free, then re-oil it assembled. If you think it's crazy to heat the gun in the oven, they get a lot hotter than 170F when shot a lot. I heard you could go as high as 350F, but I wouldn't. Last edited by Elvishead; March 4, 2009 at 03:30 PM. |
March 4, 2009, 03:36 PM | #3 |
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Well, I expect to pay for the services. And as of now, the gun is back together, it just doesn't work. And, I would much rather send the gun to them with egg on my face rather than let my pride keep me from admitting I screwed up and having a pistol that doesn't work anymore. I was thinking of getting the bluing touched up while it was in anyway.
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March 4, 2009, 03:53 PM | #4 | |
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One thing that would worry me a little is, if you didn't completely disclose what you did to the gun, and after you got it back it shot good for a while, and went back to the way it was.
So if they missed something, you could have more egg than you bargained for. And that's from working at a Auto, motorcycle, ATV, and marine repair shops. You fix what the customer told you or not told you Quote:
Last edited by Elvishead; March 4, 2009 at 04:17 PM. |
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March 4, 2009, 05:03 PM | #5 |
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I only polished the face of the trigger and did a VERY light couple swipes with 400 grit on some of the internals to just make sure things were gliding together easily. Not enough to do anything else to it, unless it's made of butter instead of steel. And I have no shame here, if I send it to the factory, I'll tell them the whole story.
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March 4, 2009, 06:44 PM | #6 |
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If your "Gunsmith" can't figure out what's wrong with a GP-100 then you don't have a "Gunsmith". Send it to Ruger and it will be made right and when you get it back you should really leave it alone and just shoot it.
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March 4, 2009, 07:19 PM | #7 | |
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Quote:
Good luck getting your Ruger back online. Let us know how Ruger treats you.
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March 5, 2009, 08:48 AM | #8 |
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Just one quick question---Did you get the hammer return spring in correctly?
If it is insatlled wrong, you can't pull the hammer back---just a thought. |
March 5, 2009, 09:44 AM | #9 |
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I will give you respect for having the balls to totally disassemble it instead of taking it to a smith in the first place. When you are an amateur sometimes you make mistakes that are pricey, but as long as you learn something...
Good luck. |
March 5, 2009, 09:55 AM | #10 |
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you could order new parts from Numrich to replace every part you so much as touched with sandpaper -that'd be a lot cheaper the overnight shipping both ways and paying Ruger.
9 hours? how could a real gunsmith not figure out what part is causing the problem in less than an hour? sounds like he needs a new vocation. |
March 5, 2009, 08:19 PM | #11 |
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Hahaha, thanks for the props. I think I knew just enough to be dangerous. But yes, lesson learned. Namely, don't disassemble beyond owner's manual instructions.
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March 5, 2009, 08:32 PM | #12 |
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Dissasembling a gun
My freind, i hope everything turns out ok with your ruger. Im sure if you send it back to the company, they can make it like new again. Your lesson learned should be at no time should ANYONE take a fire arm apart, only a gun smith or the factory. Too many times on these forums we read about doing action jobs, or making the finish better. The truth is, theres alot of shade tree gun experts on these sites. A new or used firearm in good working order, should NEVER be disassembled at anytime, unless buy a professional.
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March 5, 2009, 09:16 PM | #13 |
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You sir have found a GREMLIN.
This gremlin has set up shop in your Ruger to perplex and frustrate you to no end. As long as you think about your prized Ruger and are concerned you may never get it back together,you won't. Don't send it to the factory. Just put it aside and go shoot some of your other guns. Do other things. Don't even let your gunsmith friend ask you about the gun,just say,"Heck,I'm taking a break from that gun for a while,let's forget about it for now." Then magically the gremlin will get bored because you won't pay attention to what it is doing to your gun and will leave. Then one day,you it will dawn on you what you are doing wrong,you will go back to your bench,open the drawer,pull out the gun and have it back together and working in less than fifteen minutes. Gremlins,the little b-----rds |
March 5, 2009, 09:56 PM | #14 |
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Hahaha. I like that about the Gremlins. Maybe I'll throw it in the pool and see if it replicates. Sorry, cheap 80's movie reference. I would like to get the bluing touched up, so I figure I will at least email them and see what the estimate will be. I"ll let everyone know what the outcome is. Thanks for the info and for not giving me TOO hard of a time. I expected worse.
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March 5, 2009, 10:44 PM | #15 |
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I've made a lot more expensive mistakes, we all have. Don't beat yourself up over a $500 gun.
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April 18, 2009, 12:19 PM | #16 |
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Did you get this resolved?
It sounds like you are missing a cylinder latch plunger and spring (part KE-51 and KH05000). These put pressure on the cylinder latch and push it up to engage the detents on the cylinder. There are a few other plungers on the GP100, so maybe you put a smaller one in the cylinder latch? Regarding the hammer- did you pull the trigger when you put it back in? The sears won't engage properly unless you hold the trigger all the way back. Another possibility is that the hammer is installed backwards. |
April 18, 2009, 01:33 PM | #17 | |
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Got to wonder about some things....
Quote:
Ah, the joy of Ruger DA revolvers. Surprisingly complex for such simple seeming little beasts. Some Chinese puzzles are simpler. You have had the gun apart before, put it back together, and it worked. So, what did you do different this time? You might consider a good exploded drawing showing all the parts, and take the gun down again, to make sure that they are all there. Once you are sure nothing got away, you ought to be able to put it all back together again. You did it before. However, Rugers are tricksy. There are certain tricks that must be done to reassemble certain models, otherwise, no go. Good Luck. Sending the gun back to Ruger will get it fixed. AND likely returned to factory original configuration, so your custom springs and "tuning" work may go for naught. But it will work when you get it back.
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April 19, 2009, 02:13 AM | #18 |
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Two other things to try
Go to RugerForum.net and join up. After (I think) 10 posts, you can go to their library and download the IBOK (The Iowegan Book of Knowledge). That might give you enough to reassemble it.
Iowegan is a retired gunsmith and has written some pretty good and easy to read manuals for a number of guns. Or, I am going to the range tomorrow and will be cleaning my guns. I will have a look inside mine and see if anything "pops out" at me as an obviously easy mistake to make. Look for another post from me tomorrow. If you can post pictures, lay out the parts in the orientation you are reassembling them and let us see what you have, please. I always disassemble my guns immediately after buying them. I want to be able to maintain it, diagnose it, maybe even tune it. However, I have sometimes embarasses myself upon reassembly (especially my Ruger Mark II). More power to you. Lost Sheep. Last edited by Lost Sheep; April 19, 2009 at 02:20 AM. |
April 19, 2009, 11:16 AM | #19 |
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If you do send it to Ruger, tell them that you are going to write about the experience with their customer support and turnaround times on TFL and they may give you better service. Just a thought
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April 25, 2009, 08:14 PM | #20 |
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Update of Semi-functioning GP100
2DaMtns,
Sorry for taking so long. I lost the thread. I got my GP and stripped it and suspect that the spring under the cylinder stop/locking bolt/hand is not in place. When you remove the trigger group, is that small "hand" forced upward lightly? If not, does it have free movement? If "no", and "no", something is jammed. Unjam it. If "yes" and "no", something is jammed. Unjam it. If either "No" or "yes" and "yes, but not springy" you are probably missing the spring. Find it or get another. If "Yes" and "springy, yes" that is normal. Perform this function check: Pull the trigger and watch the locking bolt. It should, under action by the trigger, pull down, then snap upward by spring pressure. If it passes the function test, reassemble the gun. As you reattach the trigger group to the frame, make sure all the parts are fully inserted in their respective holes. I am talking primarily about the locking bolt, advancing hand and transfer bar. Nothing keeps the parts in place until after assembly within the frame. The front of the trigger group goes into the frame first. When reassembling the gun, I find the transfer bar flops around, making it hard to keep lined up properly. Holding the gun's frame upside down lets gravity keep the advancing hand and the transfer bar pointed where they should be pointed. Let us know how it all comes out, please. Lost sheep. p.s. Sometimes I think I should set up my backpacking tent's rainfly in the kitchen. No exits upward and flat linoleum on the floor. The only place to lose a small part, then, is in your clothing. Don't laugh. I shot myself in the forehead once with a spring guide from a .45 1911 and it landed in my shirt pocket. |
April 26, 2009, 06:07 PM | #21 |
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Hey, thanks for the great advice. I will take it out and tear it down one day this week and see what I can find out, and I will let you know. I still may send it back to the factory. I had a guy remove the writing on the side and the bluing doesn't match up right. I'll keep you posted.
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April 26, 2009, 08:18 PM | #22 |
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IIRC, one thing that can mess that gun up is getting the hammer strut in backwards.
Jim |
April 29, 2009, 02:51 PM | #23 |
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I am messing with it right now. I have the trigger assembly out, and the plunger and spring that push the cylinder latch up don't appear to come out far enough, and the latch won't engage the notches on the cylinder. I will try to see what I can figure out, but that seems to be the problem. The names of the actual parts are the crane pivot lock plunger and spring. I thought maybe I had messed up and put the spring and plunger from the cylinder latch where the pawl plunger and spring go, but the plunger and spring for the pawl are shorter than the ones for the cylinder latch. I wonder if I should just replace the spring for the crane pivot lock plunger?
Last edited by 2DaMtns; April 29, 2009 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Added more info |
April 29, 2009, 03:07 PM | #24 | ||
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April 29, 2009, 06:51 PM | #25 | |
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