Virginia AG shutting off reciprocity - Page 2

johnwilliamson062 · December 22, 2015, 07:26 PM

VA needs to look at the bright side:

This is going to give you some great ammo for pushing through the universal reciprocity legislation. If the bill had a chance to begin with this should give you what you need to push it over the edge for sure.

dakota.potts · December 22, 2015, 08:31 PM

If I recall, Virginia has unlicensed open carry. Does that apply to non residents? If so, maybe people from the states that were dropped need to open carry inside of Virginia instead. The state must have wanted it when they left little other option

osbornk · December 22, 2015, 09:30 PM

Quote:

If I recall, Virginia has unlicensed open carry. Does that apply to non residents? If so, maybe people from the states that were dropped need to open carry inside of Virginia instead. The state must have wanted it when they left little other option

The governor and AG hates open carry in Virginia but they can't do anything about it because Virginia never passed a law forbidding it and it's not going through the Republican legislature. People can simply pull their gun out in open view when they get to the Virginia line and drive on through.

SamNavy · December 22, 2015, 09:33 PM

Dakota, there is UOC in the state, and I notice 2-3 people per month in my daily travels in the greater Hampton Roads area who do... it's not mainstream here in "the city", but I've never seen a single issue. I personally don't OC, but only because the wife (who is 100% onboard with CC) frowns at me when I have in the past.

I'm trying to find a bright side for us here with the AG's move here. My first thought is that it's going to (again, trying to find a word that won't get filtered) upset the Republican legislature enough that the universal reciprocity bill should stand a good chance of passing, even over the objections of the State Police who outright lied to get it canned the last time.

If not, it will get the attention of a lot of Washington representatives who are looking for more reasons to justify national reciprocity.

If nothing else, maybe it will help get a few more states on board with coming up with "universal" licensing so that more states have the same sets of rules for getting a licence. I'm not sure everybody would be ecstatic about the New Mexico qualification standards, but it would go a long way towards streamlining the reciprocity laws.

TomNJVA · December 22, 2015, 09:37 PM

In Virginia, keeping a loaded handgun in the glove compartment or center console in your car is considered open carry and is legal without a CCP. The compartments do not need to be locked.

csmsss · December 22, 2015, 09:40 PM

Interesting and unexpected that Texas is one of the "lucky" five that passed muster. I wonder how that could be?

ronl · December 22, 2015, 11:00 PM

The Republicans who control both houses of the state have vowed to fight this, as it took just about everybody by surprise. Just goes to show how far the anti's will go to limit our freedom to self-defense. Seems McAuliffe and company are using a few tricks from the Obama/Clinton playbook. I surely hope and do indeed expect this to turn around and bite them in their posteriors.

osbornk · December 23, 2015, 09:29 AM

Quote:

VA needs to look at the bright side:

This is going to give you some great ammo for pushing through the universal reciprocity legislation. If the bill had a chance to begin with this should give you what you need to push it over the edge for sure.

I think it will easily pass but will be vetoed by our governor. The House will easily have enough votes to over ride a veto but there is only a 1 vote majority in the state senate. Bloomburg spent well over 2 million dollars in a failed attempt to get that 1 senate seat and they feel the need to pay him back.

2ndsojourn · December 23, 2015, 01:32 PM

From jw062:

"This is going to give you some great ammo for pushing through the universal reciprocity legislation."

If you're talking on the federal level, it'll probably never pass, given the political pull of states like NY, NJ, CA, MD and possibly a couple others. I hope I'm wrong, even though I'm all for it, but it'll never happen.

From osbornk:

"I think it will easily pass but will be vetoed by our governor."

If we're talking about on a federal level, governors won't get any veto. But you can believe that the governors against it will be nagging their senators and congressmen to not pass it.

SamNavy · December 23, 2015, 06:28 PM

^I mentioned earlier that Virginia "All-State-Reciprocity" or whatever you want to call it at the state level probably would have passed the Virginia House and Virginia Senate last year and made it to the Governors desk if it hadn't been for the interference of the State Police. If memory serves, they argued that they would lose money from the profits they made processing non-resident licenses. However, that turned out to be a total lie, because all the money from processing those licenses went straight into the overtime paychecks of the officers doing the processing, not into some general fund used to keep the people safe. They won't be able to use that tactic again because VCDL did their homework. However, the Governor will certainly veto any such bill that gets to him, and it's unsure if there would be enough votes in the Senate to overturn it.

Mainah · December 23, 2015, 06:37 PM

Are there any statistical analyses of gun crime rates related to non-VA CCP reciprocal state (prior to this) legal carriers? I'll just wait awhile...

adamBomb · December 23, 2015, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Are there any statistical analyses of gun crime rates related to non-VA CCP reciprocal state (prior to this) legal carriers? I'll just wait awhile...

I would assume there is not because the number is probably below 5% if not zero most years. Its a political move, that's all. No rational other than it being something they can pass with little opposition from the public and it will look like they are doing 'gun control'.

Slimjim9 · December 23, 2015, 08:57 PM

Maybe I shouldn't be, but I'm pretty shocked by this news.
HOW IS THIS EFFING LEGAL!!?!!??!?!
(deep cleansing breath, deep cleansing breath)

I've never wanted to open carry but I guess I get to find out how it is the next time I go to VA.

**Tom Servo** · December 24, 2015, 08:46 AM

Quote:

HOW IS THIS EFFING LEGAL!!?

The power to enter into the reciprocity agreements is delegated to the AG. He has the same power to nullify them.

Slimjim9 · December 24, 2015, 09:39 AM

Yeah, after doing some more reading, I see that it is "legal" but it sure ought not to be. Pure power grab.

2ndsojourn · December 24, 2015, 09:45 AM

But...but...something must be done!

mehavey · December 24, 2015, 10:01 AM

For the past half-dozen years, we have been looking at the continued rise of the imperial
executive [at multiple levels] as means to circumvent the legislative process.... and the
legislative process ceding more and more power to that executive across the board.

This is just another one of them.

Chip Saunders · December 25, 2015, 10:36 PM

Alabama never had reciprocity with Va. But we would have got the boot too. A permit here means passing the usual background check and the local Sheriff not having any good a sufficient reason to deny a permit. That's it, no classes or tests.

On the other hand the vehicle carry is extremely restrictive. ANY pistol in a vehicle is considered CONCEALED and you better have a permit.....

Exception is if you just bought it and are transporting it home, and then you better have a receipt.....

Go figure....

SARuger · December 25, 2015, 11:40 PM

I wonder if this isn't grounds for a class action law-suit towards the state of VA by all VA CCW permit carriers? I was clearly told at my county "clerk of courts" when I filled out the paperwork and wrote her a check for $50 that my permit would be reciprocated in the listed states, I asked, she read them to me. Now due to the actions of my state, others have dropped the reciprocation agreement.

I would think there is a hungry lawyer somewhere in the state of VA that might want a fat paycheck.

Unlicensed Dremel · December 26, 2015, 10:00 PM

Anything he can do withOUT the legislature can be done/undone WITH the legislature + governor. Although I guess that makes them SOL with McAuliffe.

I certainly won't be traveling there. Sad.

BillG174 · December 26, 2015, 11:58 PM

I live in Kansas and I visit my daughter in VA. Kansas requires a 8 hour classroom CCW course, pass a written test, range qualification with an FBI Q target, fingerprints and background check by the Sheriff. Although I only CC, if from this thread OC is legal in VA without a permit maybe everyone should start open carrying. I'm sure that would get the population excited.

**JohnKSa** · December 27, 2015, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Interesting and unexpected that Texas is one of the "lucky" five that passed muster. I wonder how that could be?

TX requirements for licensing are pretty stringent. I guess that's a good thing from this perspective, but it doesn't feel so lucky when I total up the time, effort and money I've spent over the years maintaining a handgun license in TX.

thallub · December 27, 2015, 08:11 AM

Virginia concealed carry laws are stringent. For example, a VA resident loses his/her concealed carry permit for a drunk driving conviction. Virginia reports adjudicated mental cases to NICS. Some states do neither.

The VA attorney general is applying VA standards to other states. Makes no sense that VA would deny residents with an adjudicated mental condition a concealed carry permit but would allow residents of other states with adjudicated mental conditions to carry concealed in VA.

Quote:

VIRGINIA REPUBLICANS have been instrumental in enacting legislation that would deny concealed-handgun permits to in-state applicants whose records include drunken driving, assault, drug offenses, stalking, restraining orders, serious mental-health problems, illegal immigration or felonies committed as a juvenile, among other disqualifiers. Those are common-sense rules, and plenty of Virginians support them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...a4d_story.html

http://dailysignal.com/2015/12/23/vi...ith-25-states/

osbornk · December 27, 2015, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Virginia concealed carry laws are stringent. For example, a VA resident loses his/her concealed carry permit for a drunk driving conviction. Virginia reports adjudicated mental cases to NICS. Some states do neither.

The VA attorney general is applying VA standards to other states. Makes no sense that VA would deny residents with an adjudicated mental condition a concealed carry permit but would allow residents of other states with adjudicated mental conditions to carry concealed in VA.

I hope you're kidding. I live in Virginia and stringent is not a word I would use. It took me all of 10 minutes to take and pass an on-line course to get mine. I then spent an additional 10 minutes at the court clerk's office to fill out a form and give them $50. There is nothing asked about your ability with a gun or even if you have ever even seen one. When you quote someone that mentions "common sense", you can be assured it is anything but. A lot of the things are listed so your elected officials can cherry pick and selectively disarm those that they choose.

osbornk · December 27, 2015, 07:07 PM

I have been thinking about what our Bloomberg sponsored politicians in Richmond are doing to gun owners in Virginia and decided to send a letter to the editor. I sent it to 5 major papers in the state that covers the entire state. It might show up in one or two. It is as follows:

"I don’t think the decision to revoke reciprocity agreements with 25 states was wise or well thought out by Attorney General Herring and Governor McAuliffe.

Many of us in Virginia have been working very hard promoting tourism to offset job losses due to the decline of the coal industry and the closing of factories. Increased government regulation and NAFTA have had played a part in the job losses. If the people posting on social media and numerous forums are to be believed, there will be a substantial drop in tourism and spending in Virginia because of the anti-gun action taken by the leadership of the state.
Most if not all of the states impacted will no longer honor the concealed carry permits of Virginia residents since Virginia will not recognize theirs. That will make any car from Virginia traveling in those states a mobile gun free zone if the occupants are law abiding citizens. We will be easy targets for robbery, carjacking and other crimes. Most of the other states have no or very restrictive non-resident permits so Virginia residents have few options when we go out of state. Residents of other states can come to Virginia and still protect themselves by open carrying or leaving their weapon in open view.

I live within two hours or less of four neighboring states and three of them are impacted by the decision. My friends and I frequently travel to remote parts of those states. We feel the need for protection because there is very little law enforcement presence and there are a lot of desperate people who can’t find work and need money to support their families.

I don’t think Attorney General Herring and Governor McAuliffe had the safety of the citizens I mind with this decision but was payback for the millions of dollars Michael Bloomberg spent getting Herring elected and his failed attempt to deliver the Virginia Senate to the Democrats."

December 22, 2015, 08:31 PM	#27
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	If I recall, Virginia has unlicensed open carry. Does that apply to non residents? If so, maybe people from the states that were dropped need to open carry inside of Virginia instead. The state must have wanted it when they left little other option __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

December 22, 2015, 09:37 PM	#30
TomNJVA Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2014 Location: Floyd, VA Posts: 242	In Virginia, keeping a loaded handgun in the glove compartment or center console in your car is considered open carry and is legal without a CCP. The compartments do not need to be locked. __________________ In NJ, the bad guys are armed and the households are alarmed. In VA, the households are armed and the bad guys are alarmed.

December 23, 2015, 08:57 PM	#38
Slimjim9 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2015 Posts: 783	Maybe I shouldn't be, but I'm pretty shocked by this news. HOW IS THIS EFFING LEGAL!!?!!??!?! (deep cleansing breath, deep cleansing breath) I've never wanted to open carry but I guess I get to find out how it is the next time I go to VA. __________________ Who said anything about safe? ‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good.

December 24, 2015, 09:39 AM	#40
Slimjim9 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2015 Posts: 783	Yeah, after doing some more reading, I see that it is "legal" but it sure ought not to be. Pure power grab. __________________ Who said anything about safe? ‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good.

December 26, 2015, 11:58 PM	#46
BillG174 Member Join Date: October 8, 2014 Location: Lenexa, KS (Kansas City Metro) Posts: 46	Virginia AG shutting off reciprocity I live in Kansas and I visit my daughter in VA. Kansas requires a 8 hour classroom CCW course, pass a written test, range qualification with an FBI Q target, fingerprints and background check by the Sheriff. Although I only CC, if from this thread OC is legal in VA without a permit maybe everyone should start open carrying. I'm sure that would get the population excited.

December 22, 2015, 07:26 PM	#26
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	VA needs to look at the bright side: This is going to give you some great ammo for pushing through the universal reciprocity legislation. If the bill had a chance to begin with this should give you what you need to push it over the edge for sure.

December 22, 2015, 09:33 PM	#29
SamNavy Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2011 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 433	Dakota, there is UOC in the state, and I notice 2-3 people per month in my daily travels in the greater Hampton Roads area who do... it's not mainstream here in "the city", but I've never seen a single issue. I personally don't OC, but only because the wife (who is 100% onboard with CC) frowns at me when I have in the past. I'm trying to find a bright side for us here with the AG's move here. My first thought is that it's going to (again, trying to find a word that won't get filtered) upset the Republican legislature enough that the universal reciprocity bill should stand a good chance of passing, even over the objections of the State Police who outright lied to get it canned the last time. If not, it will get the attention of a lot of Washington representatives who are looking for more reasons to justify national reciprocity. If nothing else, maybe it will help get a few more states on board with coming up with "universal" licensing so that more states have the same sets of rules for getting a licence. I'm not sure everybody would be ecstatic about the New Mexico qualification standards, but it would go a long way towards streamlining the reciprocity laws.

December 22, 2015, 09:40 PM	#31
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	Interesting and unexpected that Texas is one of the "lucky" five that passed muster. I wonder how that could be?

December 22, 2015, 11:00 PM	#32
ronl Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Posts: 1,100	The Republicans who control both houses of the state have vowed to fight this, as it took just about everybody by surprise. Just goes to show how far the anti's will go to limit our freedom to self-defense. Seems McAuliffe and company are using a few tricks from the Obama/Clinton playbook. I surely hope and do indeed expect this to turn around and bite them in their posteriors.

December 23, 2015, 01:32 PM	#34
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	From jw062: "This is going to give you some great ammo for pushing through the universal reciprocity legislation." If you're talking on the federal level, it'll probably never pass, given the political pull of states like NY, NJ, CA, MD and possibly a couple others. I hope I'm wrong, even though I'm all for it, but it'll never happen. From osbornk: "I think it will easily pass but will be vetoed by our governor." If we're talking about on a federal level, governors won't get any veto. But you can believe that the governors against it will be nagging their senators and congressmen to not pass it.

December 23, 2015, 06:28 PM	#35
SamNavy Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2011 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 433	^I mentioned earlier that Virginia "All-State-Reciprocity" or whatever you want to call it at the state level probably would have passed the Virginia House and Virginia Senate last year and made it to the Governors desk if it hadn't been for the interference of the State Police. If memory serves, they argued that they would lose money from the profits they made processing non-resident licenses. However, that turned out to be a total lie, because all the money from processing those licenses went straight into the overtime paychecks of the officers doing the processing, not into some general fund used to keep the people safe. They won't be able to use that tactic again because VCDL did their homework. However, the Governor will certainly veto any such bill that gets to him, and it's unsure if there would be enough votes in the Senate to overturn it.

December 23, 2015, 06:37 PM	#36
Mainah Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2007 Posts: 1,119	Are there any statistical analyses of gun crime rates related to non-VA CCP reciprocal state (prior to this) legal carriers? I'll just wait awhile...

December 24, 2015, 09:45 AM	#41
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	But...but...something must be done!

December 24, 2015, 10:01 AM	#42
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	For the past half-dozen years, we have been looking at the continued rise of the imperial executive [at multiple levels] as means to circumvent the legislative process.... and the legislative process ceding more and more power to that executive across the board. This is just another one of them.

December 25, 2015, 10:36 PM	#43
Chip Saunders Member Join Date: July 28, 2014 Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama, Roll Tide Posts: 27	Alabama never had reciprocity with Va. But we would have got the boot too. A permit here means passing the usual background check and the local Sheriff not having any good a sufficient reason to deny a permit. That's it, no classes or tests. On the other hand the vehicle carry is extremely restrictive. ANY pistol in a vehicle is considered CONCEALED and you better have a permit..... Exception is if you just bought it and are transporting it home, and then you better have a receipt..... Go figure....

December 25, 2015, 11:40 PM	#44
SARuger Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2014 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains of VA Posts: 954	I wonder if this isn't grounds for a class action law-suit towards the state of VA by all VA CCW permit carriers? I was clearly told at my county "clerk of courts" when I filled out the paperwork and wrote her a check for $50 that my permit would be reciprocated in the listed states, I asked, she read them to me. Now due to the actions of my state, others have dropped the reciprocation agreement. I would think there is a hungry lawyer somewhere in the state of VA that might want a fat paycheck.

December 26, 2015, 10:00 PM	#45
Unlicensed Dremel Junior member Join Date: February 13, 2014 Location: Flathead Valley, MT Posts: 2,187	Anything he can do withOUT the legislature can be done/undone WITH the legislature + governor. Although I guess that makes them SOL with McAuliffe. I certainly won't be traveling there. Sad.

December 27, 2015, 07:07 PM	#50
osbornk Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2012 Location: Mountains of Appalachia Posts: 1,598	I have been thinking about what our Bloomberg sponsored politicians in Richmond are doing to gun owners in Virginia and decided to send a letter to the editor. I sent it to 5 major papers in the state that covers the entire state. It might show up in one or two. It is as follows: "I don’t think the decision to revoke reciprocity agreements with 25 states was wise or well thought out by Attorney General Herring and Governor McAuliffe. Many of us in Virginia have been working very hard promoting tourism to offset job losses due to the decline of the coal industry and the closing of factories. Increased government regulation and NAFTA have had played a part in the job losses. If the people posting on social media and numerous forums are to be believed, there will be a substantial drop in tourism and spending in Virginia because of the anti-gun action taken by the leadership of the state. Most if not all of the states impacted will no longer honor the concealed carry permits of Virginia residents since Virginia will not recognize theirs. That will make any car from Virginia traveling in those states a mobile gun free zone if the occupants are law abiding citizens. We will be easy targets for robbery, carjacking and other crimes. Most of the other states have no or very restrictive non-resident permits so Virginia residents have few options when we go out of state. Residents of other states can come to Virginia and still protect themselves by open carrying or leaving their weapon in open view. I live within two hours or less of four neighboring states and three of them are impacted by the decision. My friends and I frequently travel to remote parts of those states. We feel the need for protection because there is very little law enforcement presence and there are a lot of desperate people who can’t find work and need money to support their families. I don’t think Attorney General Herring and Governor McAuliffe had the safety of the citizens I mind with this decision but was payback for the millions of dollars Michael Bloomberg spent getting Herring elected and his failed attempt to deliver the Virginia Senate to the Democrats."