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Old September 27, 2022, 10:12 PM   #26
platform
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@PolarFBear -- if I may, i would like to make a suggestion:
Use the strength of your collection to compete, not the weaknesses.

The weakness is that the .45 cannot compete with the current micro-compacts for carry options.

The strength, is that .45s with forged frame 1911, glocks and a few others -- are 'platform' guns.
That means that they can be 'transformed' to various forms to accomodate specific purposes.


So if possible, what you should be doing is packaging your items for sale with those strength attributes.
the .45s should be packaged with conversion barrels + magazines -- as multi-caliber packages.

If you can invest in getting some to have additional conversions in to .38 Super, .400 corbon, .40 super, .460 rowland.

If you have a Ruger that can swap cylinders between .45 LC and .45 ACP -- I would package that with a .45 ACP semi auto and sell it together.

And so on.
My point is - your audience should not be the 'micro-compacts' crowd.
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Old September 28, 2022, 12:22 AM   #27
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I had a CZ 97 and loved it until it broke, fortunately I've been able to get a Citadel functioning well and shoot it a lot as I cast for it. Nothing like a 225gr LRN smacking the steel.
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Old September 28, 2022, 11:02 AM   #28
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Could be that it's high time for a .46 ACP.
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Old September 28, 2022, 11:24 AM   #29
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So if possible, what you should be doing is packaging your items for sale with those strength attributes.
the .45s should be packaged with conversion barrels + magazines -- as multi-caliber packages.

If you can invest in getting some to have additional conversions in to .38 Super, .400 corbon, .40 super, .460 rowland.

If you have a Ruger that can swap cylinders between .45 LC and .45 ACP -- I would package that with a .45 ACP semi auto and sell it together.

And so on.
OK, I'm confused....
are you actually suggesting that the op buy more stuff? Conversion barrels and magazines, and even a Ruger convertible to make a bigger "package" that would POSSIBLY appeal more to someone looking to buy a .45acp??

That sounds counterproductive, to me...
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Old September 28, 2022, 11:36 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
OK, I'm confused....
are you actually suggesting that the op buy more stuff? Conversion barrels and magazines, and even a Ruger convertible to make a bigger "package" that would POSSIBLY appeal more to someone looking to buy a .45acp??

That sounds counterproductive, to me...

Personally I agree with you.

In my experience conversion barrels and whatnot have appeal to a small subset of buyers. If you find the right buyer it can add value, otherwise you often end up selling them for practically no financial gain. I definitely don’t see it as a way to make more money.


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Old September 28, 2022, 12:05 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by PolarFBear View Post
I am in the time of life to pare down the "inventory". Did a local gun show and had half a dozen 45 acp using firearms on my table. It was a mix of SA, DA-SA and revolvers, all quality pieces. Not a single person gave any of them a look! What was under review by patrons were 22's, 9's and .380. What has happened to the "manly" caliber? Out of spite I bought another (actually traded a 22) 1911, a Springfield, and went home happy.
Also in the paring down mode but curious what the 45acp models happened to be?

In my paring down my 45acps so far are not even close to getting on the "To a Forever Home" list.
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Old September 28, 2022, 12:18 PM   #32
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Truth is 45 is just about dead everywhere.

I'll shoot it some in Single stack, but as arthritis gets the better of me 9mm sees the most action these days.

As to the OP question, YES. 45acp is dead in limited. Really for serious competitors, all things being equal, there's no reason not to shoot 40 in Limited.
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Old September 28, 2022, 12:20 PM   #33
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How many new handguns have been introduced in 38 Super, 10MM Auto, etc. ?
Oh man, tons of 10mm guns are new on the market recently. And it's not just the CMMG. Every pistol manufacturer who's not asleep at the wheel is rolling out the 10mm. It started with XDm, then SIG, and now S&W. The latter even rolled out a 10mm revolver, model 610.
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Old September 28, 2022, 12:26 PM   #34
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Feel free to enlighten me. I have many connections in the gun world, but I don't know production numbers for every company.
A few years back I took a look at the annual ATF report. The take for .45 was something like 27%. The 9mm took 45%, and the third was .380 with about 13%. However, the ammo sales are more lopsided than that (from various notices by sellers, because Lucky Gunner no longer publish the breakdown). I concluded that people still bought a bunch of .45 but they basically did not shoot their purchases. The .380 people also shoot less, mostly on the account of 1. not having much of .380 PCC, 2. their magazines being overall smaller, 3. competing and practicing less. But apparently the shooting of .45 declines so fast that pretty soon you'll see more .380 and 10mm brass on the floor.
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Old September 28, 2022, 02:01 PM   #35
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That's a funny story.

I think that the health of 45 ACP will be directly related to availability of reloading components. Got to be a rich cat indeed to shoot factory ammo in a 45, unless really limiting oneself.

Prices might've been too high.
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Old September 28, 2022, 03:31 PM   #36
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I would caution against judging the numbers of people who have and sometimes shoot .45s simply based on current market sales and reports.

Or by the amount of fired brass you find at the range. You won't find ANY of my brass left at the range, if I can help it.

PERHAPS, based on recent sales, you might make an argument that the .45ACP is on its way to niche status (though I suspect a few million folks might disagree) but I think its a long, long way from "dead".
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Old September 28, 2022, 04:44 PM   #37
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People have been predicting the demise of the 45 ACP for decades. I have been involved with firearms for 50 years now, and I can't remember a time when the 45 wasn't being called dead or dying. It was never really "popular", but it seemed like most people had one just in case. In the 1960s it was dying because of the 357 Magnum and the 44 Magnum. In the 70s it was because of the 357 magnum and the 41 magnum. In the 80s and the 90s it was because of the 357 and the 9mm. In the 2000s it was because of the 9mm and the 40. And so on. It has been declared dying by most gun rags for the past 50 years and yet it's still going strong. I get it, 9mm is easier to shoot, plastic guns are lighter, you can get a 1911 in 10 mm now, and so on. But the 45 remains.
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Old September 28, 2022, 05:02 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP
Quote:
So if possible, what you should be doing is packaging your items for sale with those strength attributes.
the .45s should be packaged with conversion barrels + magazines -- as multi-caliber packages.

If you can invest in getting some to have additional conversions in to .38 Super, .400 corbon, .40 super, .460 rowland.

If you have a Ruger that can swap cylinders between .45 LC and .45 ACP -- I would package that with a .45 ACP semi auto and sell it together.

And so on.
OK, I'm confused....
are you actually suggesting that the op buy more stuff? Conversion barrels and magazines, and even a Ruger convertible to make a bigger "package" that would POSSIBLY appeal more to someone looking to buy a .45acp??

That sounds counterproductive, to me...
I agree with 44 AMP. I can guarantee -- with about 98.73 percent certainty -- that going out and buying all the "stuff" to make those pistols convertibles might -- at best -- get the seller back about 10 to 15 percent of the cost of all that "stuff."
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Old September 28, 2022, 05:59 PM   #39
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Is the 45 acp "dead"?
Well, it’s nowhere near as dead as the .40S&W.

FBI said so.
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Old September 29, 2022, 11:58 AM   #40
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Hollow point bullets have been around since late 19th century. Lyman made molds for the bullet but didn't sell ammo. Lee Jurris (sp?) and Hi-Vel or was it Super Vel company? popularized JHPs in the late 60s.

Before this, if we had to use the ammo available, we would probably select the 45 ACP as probably the best man stopper other than maybe the 357 which didn't appear until the mid 30s or the older 45 Colt in a revolver.

I own 45s but they are not as fun to shoot or economical as 9mm and with modern bullet tech the 9 is certainly an adequate SD cartridge. So why own a 45. The 45 ACP will never die as won't the 45 Colt. I reload the 45 Colt for deer hunting and although I have the dies, etc. for 45acp ,I don't see the practicality. I only load a minimum for the the 45 Colt as I don't go out and shoot a hundred plus rounds as I would want to shoot 45 ACP and do 9mm.

Heck, I was carrying concealed a CZ82 or a Makarov (just to be different in 9x18, loading the 12 round CZ mags with six rounds of Hornady Critical defense followed by six rounds of Russian steel case and all 8 HPs in the Mak, but wouldn't you know the 9x19 is now about half the cost of 9x18! Used to be the opposite, Dang politics!
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Old September 29, 2022, 02:16 PM   #41
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the fellow's name was Lee Jurras, and his company was Super Vel. Not sure just when he started, but his ammo was showing up on the market in the early 70s, and was essentially the first factory produced loaded ammo using jacketed hollow point bullets.

and, generally speaking, it worked!.

this lead to a market demand for JHP ammo, which, eventually even Rem and Win began to offer JHP bullets in handgun loads. Prior to that, factory loaded handgun ammo came in essentially two flavors. Revolver rounds were loaded with lead bullets and semi auto pistol rounds were loaded with FMJ bullets, only...

handloaders could get and use jacketed soft points or JHP bullets, but until Super Vel "paved the way" none of the big ammo makers offered them in most handgun cartridges. There were a few exceptions, but "service class" cartridges were almost the last ones to get JHP loadings, with pocket gun loads being about the very last.

when all the usual options are lead or FMJ the .45 acp was a well respected round. In fact, back in those days, the .38 Special was regarded as a better "stopper" than the 9mm Luger, because the lead .38 slug might expand a bit while the fmj 9mm would not.

Today, many people focus on the size of the guns, round capacity and cost of the ammo as their primary concerns. Be thankful for the diversity offered today, at one time, choices were much, much more limited.

one note about the .45 costing more than the 9mm, aside from the discount due to volume, the .45 is always going to cost more than smaller rounds, simply because there is more material used in each round. The standard bullet weight of 230gr is double the 9mm 115gr, so yes its going to cost more...no one seems to mention that anymore....
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Old September 29, 2022, 04:43 PM   #42
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Since 45acp is dead it's very fortunate that I still have lots of 25acp, 32acp, 32S&W, 32S&W Long, 38S&W and 38S&W Special to fall back on.

I keep my last 17 rounds of the original Triton Hi-Vel 230 +P next to the casket.

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Old September 30, 2022, 03:12 PM   #43
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I don't ever see the 45 ACP as a major player in LE. It never was BTW. A handful of departments issued it, some allowed it to be carried when working for LE agencies that required officers to provide their own guns and a handful used 1911's for SWAT teams. But neither the 45 ACP nor 1911 pistols were ever major players in LE even when it was the choice of the military.

But it is far from dead, I still see it as being a strong seller among casual and competitive shooters. The 45 and 1911 platform is an excellent choice for many of the shooting games. In fact, it is required for some. The 28 ga remains a relatively popular shotgun gauge simply because it is required for some shooting events. Otherwise, it would have been dead years ago. That same concept will keep the 45 alive. Plus, it's almost a requirement to own a 1911 pistol in 45.

I don't see a surge in popularity if magazine restrictions become law. Those restrictions won't apply to LE or military. There was no increase in popularity of 45 pistols during the 1994-2004 AWB. If limited to 10 rounds consumers flocked instead to smaller 9mm pistols designed around a 10-round magazine. There are a few holdouts, but almost nobody believes 45 is any more effective than 9mm at this point.
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Old September 30, 2022, 05:34 PM   #44
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the 45acp isn't dead. the people who admire it are just dieing.
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Old September 30, 2022, 06:44 PM   #45
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I’ve been looking at 3 45 ACPs lately, two are 1911 designs and one is an American, all steel variant from the 90’s. I also have little interest in black plastic guns, but own a couple.
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Old September 30, 2022, 07:16 PM   #46
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My FNX 45 Tactical says it is not
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Old September 30, 2022, 07:26 PM   #47
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In the 1980s-90s a local PD issued, or approved Sig 220s in 45. From what I heard they were popular.
Just recently, another local PD, is apparently approving Sigs, and S&W in 45auto.
I agree that 45 has been declared obsolete, and dying.
All I can verify is that my LGS is still selling 45 autos and ammo.
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Old September 30, 2022, 07:51 PM   #48
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Yes, .45ACP, .40S&W and .357SIG are all dead. This is true even though you can buy new guns chambered in those calibers and ammunition for those guns is widely available.

Of course, they're not dead in nearly the same way as .38ACP and .41AE are dead since you can't buy new guns in those chamberings and ammunition for them is very hard to find.
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Old September 30, 2022, 08:21 PM   #49
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Perhaps I'm not looking at it the way some folks are, but I make a distinction between "dead" and out of production...

Lots and lots of rounds went out of production in the past century plus, and yet, prior to the panicdemic, you could get new made ammo for some of them after years of being "dead"....

I don't consider a round, or a gun "dead" until there aren't any more to be had, at all. And even then, sometimes the dead rise again, somewhat.

Is the Broomhandle Mauser dead???
Is the Luger??

Absolutely no one is making them today, and just about no one has for decades, but they are still available on the market. Is that dead?? I don't think so.

How about the .45-70? declared dead long, long ago, then it got a new lease on life with its centennial and has been in production ever since and that will be 50 years ago, next year!

I'd almost venture to say the list of "dead" rounds that you can still get is longer than the list of current "live" ones, except for the fact that more and more "new" rounds (that don't offer much that is truly new) keep being added....

The .45acp has been working for 111 years now, I don't see that suddenly changing anytime soon.
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Old September 30, 2022, 09:06 PM   #50
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I'm not a hand gun guy--but I still have lots of them in many different calibers including most of the current favorites (except 40 S&W). My 45 XD remains my handgun of choice for home defense since it first came out.
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