Converting already loaded shotgun shells to rocksalt

[lugerstew]

With all the catalytic converter thefts and car break-ins in Colorado, does anyone know if you catch them under your car if its ok to use a 12 gauge with rock salt on them? I know it illegal to use deadly force for any kind of outdoor theft, but would rock salt be considered deadly force, also is it ok just to dump out the lead shot of already loaded shells and fill them with rock salt and then recrimp them?

[mehavey]

No.
You will be immediately arrested
and charged with assault w/ a
deadly weapon.


... and then sued for everything the your lawyers left behind.

[Marco Califo]

IMO, 12G with rock salt would be considered deadly force legally. Worse, you would likely wound the victim and he would be able to sue you.
I do not recommend altering 12g payload of loaded shells.
I would recommend having handcuffs on hand, and confront perp at gunpoint (say "you are under citizen's arrest"). Any false move, shoot 'em dead.
You should be able to buy bean bag or rubber ball 12 g., they would still be considered deadly force.

[HiBC]

I'm not a lawyer.
My understanding of the law would be "Don't even think about it"

You won't get a "Pass" for home made, improvised, less lethal ammo.|
I suspect a civilian would be arrested for using commercially loaded "less Lethal" rubber buckshot ...but as I said,I'm not a lawyer.

Beware,even if you did not fire, introducing a firearm into a catalytic converter confrontation may get you arrested for charges such as "Brandishing"

I suspect your "rock salt" loads would still be seen as deadly force. By the same logic that prevents warning shots or leg shots... You provide pretty convincing evidence you were NOT in mortal fear for your life .

Your gun is NOT an "I'll teach them a lesson" tool.

Call 911. Maybe,if you can do it safely, take pix or video.

If a replacement cat is $1000 or $2000....Thats bad! . But how much does a lawyer cost on top of that for whatever firearm trouble you get in? And,you will likely lose your shotgun.

[tangolima]

I don't think you can even point a gun at a guy who tries to steal your car's catalytic converter.

Rock salt as projectiles? Would that leave traces of salt in bore during test firing and cause corrosion? Maybe airsoft balls, or even rice? A big dog may be even better idea.

-TL

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[lugerstew]

Thanks so much, I kind of assumed all these answers, but wasn't positive. I had a cop tell me yesterday after I asked him what if my car burglar alarm goes off at 2 in the morning, what can I do, he said the same thing, call 911.
I immediately told him that the thieves would be gone before the 911 call is even answered, he agreed and had no solutions, except to remind me that the use of deadly force outside your home for property theft is not legal. He told me I could yell at them lol.
Back in the day when I was young, a lot of the farmers would use shotguns and rock salt to scare off the kids or thieves that were stealing whatever, I think I even had a friend that was hit with some, hurt like hell but didn't Mame or kill him.
I would think that replacing lead with rock salt would not be dangerous as far as reloading with the same load, the rock salt has to be lighter than lead, thus reducing the pressure quite a bit.

[Shadow9mm]

Pepper spray? On of the mini fire extinguisher types?

[L. Boscoe]

If the car alarm goes off, call 911, then go outside a fire off as many rounds as you have available into the ground, hopefully not in the direction of your vehicle.
I used a 30-06 to this effect in the country, never pointing the gun in the direction of the thieves, but burglars stealing converters are
highly unlikely to want to fight you for your car parts. Made a hell of a noise, and got the idea across.
If you are in town, you risk a misdemeanor charge for discharging a firearm, which I would think unlikely unless you are in a woke area.

[mehavey]

". . . .fire off as many rounds as you have available into the ground. . . ."

No.
That will also get you arrested/charged.

[lugerstew]

Those last two suggestions are interesting, thanks Shadow9mm, I remember I bought some bear spray for the wife when she walks in the woods, it's supposed to be 10 times stronger than regular pepper spray, I wonder if that would be considered a deadly weapon?

I kind of like the idea of just going out and start shooting into the ground nowhere near the thieves, your right, that would scare the hell out of about anybody.

But this being Colorado, somebody somewhere would try a lawsuit for either one, I think I should question the officer I talked to yesterday about those two ideas.
Thanks so much

[mehavey]

...somebody somewhere would try a lawsuit...

Lawsuit will be the least of your problems.

You most likely be will be arrested/criminally charged for any such actions save in defense of your life.
https://www.shouselaw.com/co/defense...-of-firearm/#1
You might argue that "it wasn't fired into a building...," but I'm fairly sure the local PA will find some
aspect of what you did -- save in defense of yourself or others . . . to be reckless.

See also https://coloradohandgunsafety.com/ev...warning-shots/


.

[olduser]

When I was a kid it was an accepted deterrent for watermelon thieves. How times have changed, and not for the good.

[lugerstew]

Well, looks like I'm down to bear spray, pepper spray or fire extinguisher.
One idea i was kicking around was, if I felt really brave, sneak out there with a good sharp knife and quickly puncture the sidewall of all 4 tires, while the wife was inside calling 911.
But what if he or his accomplice had a gun? and I didn't?

[wayneinFL]

If you bring a gun into the situation even firing warning shots into the ground, it could still be aggravated assault.

Just don't do it unless you're comfortable with the legal battle or the possible legal consequences.

[44 AMP]

While the term is thrown around, there is NO SUCH THING as "less lethal".

There is ammo that is "less LIKELY to be lethal" but can still KILL!!! Anything that comes out of the barrel of a gun is legally "deadly force" no matter what it is, bullet, shot or salt...

Deadly force is only legally justified under certain specific circumstances and generally speaking simply property theft isn't one of them.

I suppose you could take Joe Biden's advice and just shoot int air, the cops will come, but I wouldn't, and I don't think it will be considered a valid defense in court, either...

[RoyceP]

A big dog, like a Doberman or a German shepherd is the right answer.

[tangolima]

Sling shot, paint ball gun etc.

I just thought of something funny. In the 90's, thieves broke into cars to steal radios. I was working towards master degree in Boston. A rich kid got his fancy car broken multiple times. At last he was really annoyed. He rigged razor blades under the radio. Next day morning, his car's interior was covered with blood. They didn't touch his car for a long while.

I am not saying you want to do the same as it may not be legal where you are. Just something I remember.

Oh another one. Coworker from England bought an used Porsche. He parked it outside his apartment in the inner city. Parts on his car kept disappearing. A headlight on Monday and a bumper on Thursday. He had no choice but to rent a garage. It was cheaper that way.

-TL

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[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by RoyceP

A big dog, like a Doberman or a German shepherd is the right answer.

This, except I’d make it a Norwegian Elk Hound.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by lugerstew

Those last two suggestions are interesting, thanks Shadow9mm, I remember I bought some bear spray for the wife when she walks in the woods, it's supposed to be 10 times stronger than regular pepper spray, I wonder if that would be considered a deadly weapon?

That depends on the laws where you live. In many locations around the country, using bear spray on humans would be highly illegal. In some places, a container of any sort of pepper spray that's as large as a bear spray canister is illegal (I guess unless you are hiking in bear country).

Rather than asking the Internet, you would probably be better served by researching Colorado state law regarding pepper spray. If you don't find anything there, besure to check your city's local ordinances.

[Wag]

^^^ This last. Internet advice for such things is quite risky.

--Wag--

[FITASC]

This, except I’d make it a Norwegian Elk Hound.

Elkhounds are smaller; I'd go for those Belgian Malnois that the military uses

[44 AMP]

No, forget the big "dangerous" dogs, go for a herd of small yappy ankle biters!! Excellent warning characteristics and if the bad guy(s) actually try to sue you what is their claim? Punctured by a Pomeranian?? Chewed up by a chihuahua?? They'll be laughed out of court.

Not so if your Doberman or pit bull latches on to them, you'll be at fault for having big "dangerous" dogs.

Alternately Geese are very good "yard dogs" under certain circumstances...

ON the subject of rock salt, finely ground like table salt is one thing. Larger crystals, chunks, etc can be dangerous or even lethal.

Remember if all you're doing is replacing the lead shot with salt crystals, you're still shooting a solid at about 1100fps or so. Bigger chunks are going to act just like shot, at close range.

Won't penetrate as much as lead shot, but could be enough to harm or even kill.

back before WWII, Grandfather loaded 12ga shells. Neighbor asked him for some loaded with "split peas". Neighbor had a dog, bothering his chickens, and wanted to teach him a lesson, wanted something that would really sting but not kill. Grandfather suggested rock salt, but neighbor insisted on split peas, so Papa loaded some for him.

"Killed that dog dead as a stone!" he told me....

Anytime you shoot ANYTHING out of a gun (and that can include "blanks") the law considers it deadly force. Whether it kills or not, its deadly force, because it COULD kill.

Bottom line is, if you're not "in the right" to shoot them with a bullet, you're not in the right to shoot them, AT ALL!

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by FITASC

Elkhounds are smaller; I'd go for those Belgian Malnois that the military uses

True, but an Elkhound can sleep outside if the temps are around zero or colder. Plus, if you’ve ever messed with an Elkhound that’s on guard, you’ll never come back again.

[Mal H]

This isn't about handloading ammo, it's more about the legalities of the OP's idea, and that was answered in the first few posts.

Closed.