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Old November 4, 2022, 08:59 AM   #1
Bill Akins
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Making an old Browning Auto Five bolt handle extension without removing the bolt

I looked online for years for an extended bolt handle for my two old Browning A5's bolts, as well as for my two Remington model 11's bolts, without success. The bolt handle on all the old Browning auto five's (and their clones) is so small that you can only get the tip of one finger on it to operate it. It is amazing to me that in over a century no bolt handle extensions were ever made by a manufacturer for sale to the public. I have found only one instance and even that requires disassembly of the bolt from the gun and removal of the handle from the bolt, where Cotton Branch Custom Firearms will custom make a steel extension and will weld one on for you, but that's all I could find after years of looking into this. Of course I (or you) could disassemble our own gun and make our own steel bolt handle extension and weld it on. But that's not something I believe the average owner would do. Do'able but not without a lathe or mill for forming the bolt handle extension and not without welding equipment nor easily nor fast nor reversible back to factory condition without disassembling the bolt from the gun again and replacing the factory bolt handle that was welded on to. Also no one should weld on a steel bolt handle extension without first taking the bolt out and removing the bolt handle from the bolt. Because welding one on with the bolt and bolt handle still in the gun could very likely un-temper springs in the bolt due to the heat of welding. So welding an extension on without removing the bolt and bolt handle from the gun, is not an option.

That tiny factory bolt handle I don't like on my 1940 & 1948 old auto five's and even older two Remington model 11's has inspired me to make my own bolt handle extension that doesn't require any disassembly of the gun at all. After much thought on the matter, I came up with two basic idea methods to consider that don't require any disassembly of the bolt handle from the gun. I started out with four basic idea methods that included making a two piece clam shell mold to create a clamp on extension but have since discounted that idea as too involved and complicated, so I trimmed my idea methods down to the two simplest ones that the average person could easily understand and do quickly and easily and that are also both reversible back to factory condition without buying new parts.

(1.) This is my idea/method for extending the bolt handle on my 1940 Belgium Browning A5 I have done. I placed a nickel plated .45 acp empty shell casing over my old A5's bolt handle and it fit snugly. I actually could very lightly tap it over the bolt handle and it stuck without deforming the case. So the next thing I did was to put some pieces of Handiwrap cellophane pressed tightly into the bottom of the case because I didn't need to fill the entire case with J&B Weld Epoxy and didn't need the weight nor volume of the J&B Weld epoxy for the entire case volume, I just wanted the area around the factory bolt handle to be encased by the J&B Weld Epoxy that would also hold the .45 acp case to the factory bolt handle. I measured the bolt handle for how far it would fit into the empty cartridge case and kept adding handiwrap pieces tightly pressed into the bottom of the case until I got the exact depth I needed within the case for the J&B Weld Epoxy to encapsulate my factory bolt handle without using unnecessary epoxy. You have to make sure you do this with the bolt retracted to the rear, because you need to eyeball the clearance you need between the cartridge case and the receiver to prevent the case from scratching up your receiver when the bolt handle reciprocates in that slot in the receiver.

Next I put J&B Weld epoxy into the empty case but not all the way to the top because I had to allow for the bolt handle displacing some of the epoxy as I lowered the bolt handle into the case and didn't want that displacement to overflow the epoxy from my cartridge case. I did this by putting the shotgun on a flat surface and placing magazines under the fore end and receiver until my bolt handle would enter the proper depth into the upright cartridge case. This is necessary because the flat area on the bolt handle has to be clear to reciprocate into the slot on the receiver. and also so the case mouth won't scratch up your receiver as it reciprocates. Then I let the epoxy dry overnight and for a few days thereafter. Working the bolt handle back and forth it seemed to work just fine, even with letting the bolt "fly" forward and not riding it forward. It is a LOT easier to use now. This is an easy and cheap solution. And there's no down side because it is reversible because J&B Weld Epoxy can be liquefied again by a propane torch and wiped off with a rag without heat damaging any springs in the gun. Just heat up the cartridge case with your torch, grab the case with some pliers and pull it off the factory bolt handle once the epoxy liquefies and then wipe the liquefied epoxy off your factory bolt handle (wear thick gloves to protect from the heat). A little messy, but totally reversible to factory condition.








If someone wants their old A5 (or a clone of the A5) to have a longer bolt handle extension (I don't), then just J&B Weld Epoxy on a Colt .45 case like I thought about doing in this below photo of mine where I put the Colt .45 case over the factory bolt handle to see how it would look. Of course I'd use a nickel plated one (looks better) if I did that, but all I had was a brass empty one at the time. It was a big "NO!" to me and I went with the shorter .45 acp case instead. No need for a bolt handle that long in my opinion. But if someone has a physical or handicap issue, it may be an option.




(2.) If the J&B Weld Epoxy doesn't hold up over long term firing and comes loose, I have another solution. Replace the epoxy with silver solder also known as "hard solder". Not solder like used to solder electronics, but solder like is used for soldering on front sights and antique Lyman Cutts compensators on shotgun barrels or soldering on barrel ribs or two barrels together on double barrel shotguns. That kind of solder. The ATF has even stated that silver soldering or hard soldering they consider to be permanent welding even though yes, it is reversible using a torch. The ATF recognizes that barrel extensions and flash suppressors silver soldered or hard soldered to a barrel, would count as being part of the barrel itself. So if a person had a barrel under legal length but could be made legal by the addition of a silver soldered or hard soldered barrel extension or flash suppressor or compensator, then it would then become a legal length barrel again. Just a little FYI there for you folks that may not have known that.

So proceed just like I did in #1. above except omit the Handiwrap cartridge space filler because the hard solder would melt it and instead use another filler like sand. If you de-cap the primer out of the (Boxer primed bigger center hole than two smaller Berdan primer holes) .45 acp case before you use it, then later you can pour the sand out to decrease extended bolt handle weight and if you want, even drill out the Boxer primer hole more to further decrease weight. Now fill your .45 acp case with sand up to just below where your bolt handle will fit into it, and set the case onto a thin piece of steel. The sand won't come out the primer hole until you lift the case back up. You might even want to very lightly clamp the case with a vice grip so the force of the torch flame hitting it won't knock it over.

Now set your thin books or magazines under the right side of the receiver and fore end of the Browning A5 or Remington model 11, so that the bolt handle will project downward the correct distance into the .45 acp cartridge case. Once you've checked your measurements like that to make sure the flat area behind the factory bolt is free to reciprocate in the slot of the receiver, then heat the cartridge case with your torch and fill it with the melted silver solder/hard solder making sure to not fill it up all the way so it doesn't spill out when you lower your bolt handle into it so that the melted silver solder/hard solder encapsulates the factory bolt handle just like if you had used J&B Weld epoxy. Now let it set up and cool. I recommend letting it cool naturally without pouring water on it. Then later after it is cooled, lift the gun up and pour the sand filler out of the boxer primer hole in the cartridge case, even drilling out the de-capped primer hole to make it larger and decrease even more weight if you prefer, (but not really necessary).

Once the sand is out, you could even wrap some asbestos around the mouth of the case where it is close to the receiver and then heat up the case again and put your silver solder/hard solder through the primer hole to hard solder even more inside the cartridge case if you feel it is necessary or think you may not have encapsulated the factory bolt handle completely with your silver solder/hard solder as much as you would have liked. The asbestos wrapped around the mouth of the case would prevent any silver solder/hard solder from your first soldering from exiting the mouth of the case onto your receiver and spilling into your bolt, since the asbestos would hold it in while it cooled along with the new solder you just did through the enlarged primer hole. But if you measured correctly you shouldn't need a second soldering. If my J&B Weld Epoxy method in #1 above doesn't hold up, this is the method I'll use and it should be stronger than the J&B Weld Epoxy method. Hopefully I won't need to. See my pictures, they are pretty easy to understand.

(update after test firing).

Yesterday (11-2-22) I went out to my shooting berm on my back acre and fired six #8 light load, 2&3/4's shot shells, and the .45 acp case stayed nice and tightly attached to my old factory bolt handle. Then I switched to heavier loads. But being my old 1940 Belgium Browning auto five has a Lyman Cutts comp on it, I didn't need to change the friction ring settings. That the beauty of the old (corncob) Cutts comp on an A5, you set it once for no friction and never have to change it no matter what load you fire. The extra weight of the Cutts comp plus its gas dissipating slots makes for less recoil than an old A5 without a Cutts comp. See this diagram for friction ring settings with and without a Cutts comp. As you can see, with a Cutts compensator, it stays at the no friction setting for all loads and you don't have to change the friction ring settings. As long as your barrel recoil spring is still good that is. If your barrel recoil spring becomes weak you might change the friction ring setting to light loads, until you can get a new recoil spring. I find that my Cutts comps on my various antique shotguns (A5's, Remy 11's, Win 12, etc) aid in my swing on clays and I use the spreader choke most of the time on clays. They are antiques for sure, but operate just as good (if not better) and with my antique semi autos with softer recoil with the Cutts comp on it than the modern inertia operated shotguns. All my semi auto (except for one modern Fostech gas operated Origin 12) and slide action shotguns are antiques. I find their milled all steel and wood quality to be better than most modern shotguns with few exceptions in my opinion. Some find the Lyman Cutts compensator to be ugly. I see it as just the opposite and as a beautiful antique piece on an antique shotgun that does its recoil compensating and choke job excellently.



Okay, enough about the Cutts comp. Next I fired nine heavy load 00 buck 2 & 3/4's shot shells. (I don't own a magnum shotgun) and since I was TRYING to make the epoxied .45 acp case loosen from the factory bolt handle, I fired them rapidly from the hip as fast as I could function the trigger. First five. "BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM" almost like a burst of auto fire from a Bofors or Oerlikon anti-aircraft cannon https://youtu.be/6EmXbStCssY, (who's recoiling barrels inspired me to invent and patent "Bump fire stocks" A.K.A, "Bumpstocks") and then four more of the same rapid "booms" all with 00 buck heavy loads. All 9 rounds fired flawlessly and the nickel plated .45acp case stayed tightly epoxied to my old factory bolt handle. 15 shells fired in all counting 6 light and 9 heavy loads. So the test firing proved my #1 method works to very cheaply and with no special tools nor any disassembly of the bolt, to extend the tiny factory bolt handle just using an empty .45 acp case and J&B Weld Epoxy if you will follow my method #1. How will it hold up to hundreds of rounds fired in the future? That remains to be seen. But if it ever does come loose, then I'll just use my #2 method of replacing the J&B Weld epoxy with silver solder/hard solder as I have already described to make sure that doesn't happen again. But for now at least, my #1 method of J&B Weld Epoxying a .45 acp case to the factory bolt handle for extending it has held up to light and heavy loads so far.

Below pics with spent shells after test firing.








Well there you have it. I've shown cheap and easy ways for you to extend your old A5, Savage 720, Remy 11 or any of the old Browning Auto Five clones to have an extended bolt handle with no disassembly of your gun, nor bolt, without sending it off to a custom shop and just using an empty .45 acp cartridge case and some J&B Weld Epoxy or possibly silver solder/hard solder. All you have to do is follow my instructions in this thread. It was easy to do and I really like my new homemade .45 acp case bolt handle extension. You won't believe the difference it makes in ease of cocking the bolt now. So if you're like me and don't like that tiny tip of your finger bolt charging handle on your old Browning Auto Five or its clones, here's an answer for you that anyone can do without disassembly of your gun and without any special tools and is reversible later back to original factory condition if you want.

You're welcome .

P.S. If you use my instructions, drop me a post here with some pics showing your bolt handle extension. I'd love to see how others did using my method.






.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; November 6, 2022 at 12:42 PM.
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Old November 5, 2022, 11:40 PM   #2
The Happy kaboomer
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I've never had a problem with the original bolt handles on my A5's.
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Old November 6, 2022, 10:26 AM   #3
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But kaboomer, you ain't tactical.
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Old November 7, 2022, 01:18 PM   #4
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Thank God. You solved a problem that didn't exist. If Mr. Browning thought his bolt handle wasn't big enough, he would have made it bigger himself.
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Old November 7, 2022, 08:05 PM   #5
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Everybody has different hands, dexterity and grip strength. I'm sure Browning chose a size he felt convenient for most people. If you've got a problem with it, all that means is you aren't most people.

Glad to see you found an innovative way to solve your problem. I do have a question, though... why choose something that has to be periodically "glued back on", over something like a tool you could just slip over the factory handle at need?

I do understand not being able to cock/rack the action with the provided knob. Never personally had an issue with it on the Auto 5 but have with certain other guns, one of them being the semi auto M1 Tommygun. A friend had one, and neither of us could open the action using just our hands! The actual SMG Tommy gun cocks with a couple fingers, but the semi autos are radically different inside, with much different springs. My friend got a piece of tool steel rod, about 4 inches long, that fit inside the hollow of the M1 cocking knob perfectly and made it a useful item instead of a virtual wall hanger you couldn't load...slip the rod in, cock the gun, rod back in your pocket, simple and easy.

There are lots of different ways to approach the problem, I'm just curious why you choose what you did, was it just the first idea you had, and since it worked, it worked!! ??
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Old November 9, 2022, 12:03 AM   #6
The Happy kaboomer
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Well said bladesmith1........People always want to fix something that ain't broke.
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Old November 9, 2022, 05:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
.People always want to fix something that ain't broke.
This is true, but if you can't use something the way it is made, even if the rest of the world can, then, FOR YOU it is a problem, and so it is, for you, "broke".

The elegant way to do it would be to have a new bolt handle made, one with a larger gripping surface.

The OP made something that works for him, and while not permanent, does work and is easily redone.

It may look "hillbilly crude" to you, but it works for him, and its his gun. That's all that matters.
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Old November 10, 2022, 08:32 PM   #8
Bill Akins
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I'm going to just write this in response without responding again to naysayers and disparaging disrespectful people after this. This is exactly why I seldom post at firearm forums anymore. The childish, mean spirited, thoughtless and yes even ungrateful people who like a pack of wolves "pile on" a person or what that person has created. So flame and pile on all you want. I won't see it nor give you the pleasure of my responding again. I didn't write this for people like that or even just for people here, but for anyone who does an online search that brings them to my thread here as well as at other shotgun forums I have posted it to, and they won't need to ask me needless questions. My write up was in extreme detail and if they were doing an online search that brought them to my thread, then they will be interested in an easy, no disassembly of the gun, cheap way, to extend their bolt handle and they won't be making disparaging, disrespectful, and childish remarks. For those that may have been nice here like 44 AMP, I appreciate you, for those who haven't, you don't matter.

Hopefully my thread will help them do a simple fix to extend their tiny, tip of the finger bolt handle that should have been made longer a century ago. I realize that's easy for me to say in hindsight of bolt handles becoming common over the past century, but when Browning designed the bolt handle on his Auto five, it was the first time a handle had been attached to a bolt like that. So I can understand and forgive his oversight in not making it larger. He even patented it, it was so new and Winchester had to make their model 11 "widow-maker" cock via pushing on the barrel to not infringe on his patent. But genius though Browning was, he made that bolt handle on his Auto five too tiny and tip of the finger usable only and I've read posts from others online who are dissatisfied with it also.

It's not that I nor they can't use that tiny tip of the finger bolt handle, (I have two old Auto fives and two Remy 11's and operate them). It's just that we shouldn't have to be forced to, when it should have been and still can be extended. For the thoughtless pack of wolves who piled on me here, since you state that you like and have no problem using the old Auto Five bolt "knob" (because it's hardly a "handle") how would you like it if your SKS rifle, or your AK rifle, or M1 Garand or M1A rifle or MAS 49/56 rifle had a bolt handle that tiny and only tip of the finger length usable as the Browning Auto Five and its clones has? Oh didn't think about that did you? If you like that tiny tip of the finger bolt handle so much why don't you cut all your rifle's bolt handles down to that same tip of the finger short length then? After all, John Moses Browning knew best what was the best length/size bolt handle right? Screw all the other firearm inventors like Peterson, Garand, Tokarev, Simonov, Kalashnikov and their bolt handles right? John Moses Browning is God to you right? You even have a bumper sticker that says: "Browning designed it, and that settles it"...right?

I didn't write this for the people who don't care to do this REVERSIBLE bolt handle extension. I wrote it for those who are interested. Just because one person might not like it, doesn't mean another won't.

So I don't care about the opinions of Elmer Fudd's or anyone who has nothing better to do than make uncalled for disparaging remarks or puts in their negative two cents worth of un-asked for opinion. Those kinds of people seldom if ever innovate nor create, but get their jollies from piling on like a pack of mindless hungry wolves and disrespecting and disparaging others who do. I posted this to show what I did for those who ARE interested in a Browning Auto Five or its clones bolt handle extension and do an online search that would bring them to my post here. I didn't ask for opinions either negative or positive. I don't care what your opinion is. If you don't like my bolt handle extension, then scroll on and have the common decency to keep your disparaging remarks to yourself.

It is unnecessary for you to write "I would never do that to my gun", "I have no problem operating the bolt" nor any of the even more disparaging remarks that have been written here. Fine. I don't care. I did this (REVERSIBLE TO FACTORY) bolt handle extension to mine and do you think your negative, disparaging, disrespectful remarks will sway me to undo what I did? DO YOU? Then why make them? Just to be a childish jerk towards me? Grow up.

Others online have complained about that tiny bolt handle also and no doubt when they see my posts here and at other shotgun forums on this when they do an online search, they will be able to make one for their gun too. So all your disparaging and disrespectful remarks are unnecessary, because I've already done it, and others now will too. So negative remarks are accomplishing nothing but showing the kind of person you are. As for Bladesmith1 who said: "Thank God. You solved a problem that didn't exist. If Mr. Browning thought his bolt handle wasn't big enough, he would have made it bigger himself", I say this, that makes about as much sense as saying: "If God wanted us to fly he would have put wings on our backs". Also there are NON FACTORY bolt handle extensions for the NEW Browning A5 that looks similar to the old Auto five but is totally different internally. When someone posts and shows how they installed one of those on their NEW A5, are you going to disparage, disrespect and pile on them like you did me? Well will you Bladesmith1 and The Happy Kaboomer?

I created this thread for those who do a search online for a bolt handle extension for their old Auto Five or any of its clones and find that nothing is available unless either they send their gun off to Cotton Branch Custom Firearms for them to disassemble it, make a custom bolt handle extension and weld it on, or else they disassemble their own gun and make a custom extension and weld it on. The average person who finds that out isn't going to spend the time, money and trouble to send their gun off. Not to mention if they live in a state who's law requires them to send it to an FFL and to get it back from an FFL and have to fill out ATF forms again just to get their gun-smithed gun back. Also the average person isn't going to disassemble their old Browning Auto Five or its clones nor make their own extended bolt handle nor weld it on nor pay someone to weld it on. But the average person WOULD use either of my simple, easy, cheap, methods #1 or #2.

I put a great deal of thought into this and what I considered the simplest method that the everyman, the average person, would be willing to do to extend the tiny, tip of one finger, dinky little bolt handle Browning put on his Auto fives and their clones. Originally I had several more ideas for methods of making a bolt handle extension that did not require disassembly of the gun than just the two I posted here.

But they involved making two cheap homemade clay type molds for two halves of a clam shell, clamp on, bolt handle extension. that also did not require disassembly of the gun. But I decided not to post that because it was complicated and involved and I doubted the average person would use that method (although it is a good one). So I posted my two most simple methods that do not require any disassembly of the gun and are the two most likely methods I felt the average person could easily do. One using epoxy and one using silver solder/hard solder. Both of which are REVERSIBLE back to factory condition without buying any new parts.

I started with the easiest which was using J&B Weld epoxy. 44 AMP This is not a GLUE and my bolt handle extension is not just glued on nor is it temporary unless you want it to be. It is a very strong epoxy that thus far has held up on my old Auto Five through repeated heavy load firings. And if at some future time the epoxy ever comes loose from holding the .45 acp cartridge case to that tiny factory bolt handle, then I've already shown how to fix it so it never comes loose again by using silver solder/hard solder in my #2 method in my above post where both method #1 & #2 are entirely reversible back to factory configuration.

To answer your question 44 AMP, This is a much better method that always stays on the gun rather than making some kind of tool to carry in one's pocket to fit over the tiny factory bolt to retract it, which could easily get lost and shouldn't have to be carried because a larger bolt handle should have been manufactured on the gun in the first place. Also to answer your question as to what made me decide on these two methods of using epoxy or silver solder and using a .45 acp case, see my post at this link, where I posted more methods for making an old auto 5 bolt handle extension by creating a clam shell mold and without any disassembly of the gun, but later at other forums, decided to trim it down to just the two most basic, easy and cheap methods since I felt most people wouldn't make a mold. At this link I was responding to the OP of an older thread that was dissatisfied with his old auto 5's tiny bolt handle and was seeking a way to extend it (so I'm not the only one). Here's that link.
https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads.../#post-4761489

My write up has told people everything they need to know to easily and cheaply extend their Auto five and its clones bolt handles, without sending their gun off and without any disassembly, if they thoroughly read it.
Again, I didn't create this thread for some of the disgusting "pile on", mean spirited and thoughtless people who posted at this thread. I wrote it for the interested persons doing an online search for a way to extend their Auto five or Remy 11, Savage 720 etc, tiny bolt handles and that search leads them to my post here and at other shotgun forums I posted it to as well. And I have accomplished that and naysayers and disparagers here don't matter to that end. Here's a link to another forum post of a side by side comparison of one of my old auto 5's bolt handles next to my M1a rifle's bolt handle. This is the length the auto 5's handle should have been a century ago. This same below link, is also another shotgun forum site that the harassing troll "The Happy Kaboomer" had to come in making uncalled for negative, disparaging remarks to me just like he did here at the firing line shotgun forum. He is an online stalker and harasser who has crapped all over my identical bolt handle extension thread in multiple posts of his at two different shotgun forums now. He claims in the below link that he is just disagreeing with what I created, but the reality is he has disparaged and harassed me in my thread both here and at the below linked other shotgun forum. That goes way beyond him just once voicing his disagreement of what I created. That is a disgusting, harassing, troll who targets me for harassment at two different shotgun forums all because he didn't like my bolt handle extension!!!. Check it out for yourselves at the below link.
https://www.shotgunforums.com/thread...4/#post-162898




.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; November 12, 2022 at 12:21 PM.
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Old November 22, 2022, 10:06 AM   #9
jrothWA
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Using my A5's [3x]for winter hunting, [Small Game , Deer, Etc]., with thick glove, I used a length of 550 para cord, to make a loop to hang ot the right wriest , small knot at the fingers location forming a small loop to catch the bolt knob, then pull back to operate and load a shell.
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