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Old July 6, 2022, 03:47 PM   #1
CZRex
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Body Armor?

anyone here familiar with ironsidebodyarmor.com? They have a FREEMAN BUNDLE for $131....a carrier and 9x9 Level 3 plates.
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Old July 6, 2022, 04:34 PM   #2
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better check local laws where you live. NY just made it almost illegal for ordinary citizens to own body armor.
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Old July 7, 2022, 03:59 AM   #3
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What would you do with body armor if you have it? The few people that I know who have it keep it packed away in a closet. It’s really heavy. In an emergency you would not have time to put it on yourself. I would make sure that I have it on if I was a front line soldier, but that’s the only way.
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Old July 7, 2022, 05:08 AM   #4
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What would you do with body armor if you have it? The few people that I know who have it keep it packed away in a closet. It’s really heavy. In an emergency you would not have time to put it on yourself. I would make sure that I have it on if I was a front line soldier, but that’s the only way.

Huh?

I have multiple armor setups… two assigned from work (soft and hard armor) and two personal (both hard armor).

For work, the soft armor is pretty much just assigned to me because it was issued from the academy… and they really don’t take those back from officers (still gets inventoried). I received the hard armor a few weeks back, which is actually an awesome setup. Lighter than the soft, Level III instead of Level IIIA and breathes a lot better. If it’s not on, it is usually close enough that I can swim into the vest quickly, if needed.

I have a personal Level III+ in my truck, mainly because policy doesn’t allow me to leave the work one in there. It is pretty much identical, but stops a little more and is slightly heavier. Main idea, if I’m off duty… it gives me some protection from bullets, but also identifies me as L/E (POLICE patches very prominent on it). It is right on top of the suppressed AR pistol.

The one in my bedroom is Level III, and my original setup… extremely lightweight with side panels and all. If something goes bump in the night or the dogs go crazy… vest is the first thing to go on. It’s sort of instinctive.

Just because people you know keep it in their closet doesn’t mean most people do. I value my safety, and while I train to return fire… I also don’t want to get shot. Armor helps in those regards. It is also affordable enough now that most people can afford it…
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Old July 7, 2022, 09:44 AM   #5
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Legal in GA.
I'm part of a safety/security team at a church. HOPE to never need it, but if it can be easily worn and mostly concealed, then why not?
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Old July 7, 2022, 02:57 PM   #6
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9x9 is a pretty small plate.

As far as body armor goes, ill paraphrase clint smith, you have to be in a fight with somone good enough to hit the armor.
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Old July 7, 2022, 04:06 PM   #7
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As retired L.E. I am quite fond of body armour. My duty configuration was level 2a. I always used a concave level 4 trauma plate. That plate ended many a scuffle and landed many a perp in the ER getting their hand in a cast from boxers fracture.
A lot of this stuff being sold today is crazy. There is no way I am going to run around with AR500 plates on. It is heavy a an anvil. I Use level 2 specta. It is very light, cool, and soft. Still have the level 4 plate. Y'all can have the Ar500 crap.

Last edited by reynolds357; July 7, 2022 at 04:52 PM.
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Old July 8, 2022, 09:43 AM   #8
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As far as body armor goes, ill paraphrase clint smith, you have to be in a fight with somone good enough to hit the armor.
Clint Smith and other instructors have plenty of opinions and cutesy saying,s but many of which really are nothing but cutesy sayings and some don't actually make sense. It isn't that your opposition has to be good enough to hit the armor. It is that you have to be lucky enough that your opposition hits the armor. The person you are battling does not want to shoot you in the armor, LOL

Even then, it isn't that they have to be good enough to miss the armor. Trooper Mark Coates died not because his attacker was good enough to do anything other than to point a gun in Coates' general direction, after being shot multiple times, downed, in a low light situation, using a NAA mini revolver. The bullet barely missed the armor and entered under the arm.

The 9x9 rifle rated plates are small. If I was to choose between wearing 9x9 plates or more fully protective Lvl II or IIIa soft armor for a church security detail, I would go with the latter as a matter of practicality and concealability. The Freeman Bundle does not appear to be very concealable. If concealability wasn't an issue, then I would choose a IIIa vest with the III trauma plates and get the most protection I could reasonably have. However, that just isn't really practical for church security.
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Old July 8, 2022, 11:27 AM   #9
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The point I was trying to convey is body armor is great and it works. However you can get hit wherever you are not covered and that's a large area. With the plates the OP is looking at, unless you are very small framed, a 9x9 plate most likely wont even cover the vitals from the front, let alone a quartering shot. It is better than nothing? Yes it is. is it a good choice? I personally don't think so.

Question for the OP. Why are you buying body armor? Will you be wearing it regularly? What threat level are you trying to counter? handguns? big handguns? shotguns, or rifles?
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Old July 8, 2022, 12:52 PM   #10
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The point I was trying to convey is body armor is great and it works. However you can get hit wherever you are not covered and that's a large area. With the plates the OP is looking at, unless you are very small framed, a 9x9 plate most likely wont even cover the vitals from the front, let alone a quartering shot. It is better than nothing? Yes it is. is it a good choice? I personally don't think so.
When I’m dealing with people, I’m pretty much next to a vehicle. Smartest thing to do would be to shoot me in the head…

I still wear the vest, not because I think I’ll be shot in the head. But if someone pulls up with a gun… vehicle moving… more likely to take one in the chest just because it is a larger/easier target.

If I get shot in the head… not going to make that much of a difference whether I’m wearing a vest or not. If I get shot in the chest… could be all the difference. Vests aren’t designed to protect everything. There is a reason why most agencies custom order armor for personnel, and they make sure certain area is covered. My hard armor… I have a lot uncovered at my lower torso (a lot of times, people do not fit their vests correctly… leaving more vitals exposed than if it was fitted right).

You have arteries, brain, neck… all can be fatal. Arteries… depending where you are hit… could be survivable with a tourniquet. But taking one in the area that the vest covers can cause just as devastating of a wound. Look at Oswald… that one .38 round from Ruby damaged his spleen, stomach, aorta, vena cava, kidney, liver, and diaphragm. Most people saw the shot and figured he would survive. Obviously… he did not.

I do like Clint Smith, but I disagree with that view. Having armor isn’t a bad thing or a hindrance… unless you argue it as such. Don’t want to wear it… that is fine. Most agencies recommend it in certain situations, and require it in others (for us, qualifications and live firearm training are required to have armor on). I know plenty of people who don’t wear armor at work. I didn’t due to the soft armor being IIIA, and when the III was originally offered… I was told that I had to wear the IIIA in an under carrier. Nope… I’m not being a sweaty mess everyday. When it was clarified and just hard armor was approved… I wear it everyday. All personal considerations.

If someone asks me if they should get armor for self protection… I’ll always say yes. Unless your skin stops bullets, I’ll always say you should.

Do you need to? That’s the question that the person needs to answer… and nobody really can answer for someone else. End of the day, your money is buying it, not mine.
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Old July 8, 2022, 01:10 PM   #11
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When I’m dealing with people, I’m pretty much next to a vehicle. Smartest thing to do would be to shoot me in the head…

I still wear the vest, not because I think I’ll be shot in the head. But if someone pulls up with a gun… vehicle moving… more likely to take one in the chest just because it is a larger/easier target.

If I get shot in the head… not going to make that much of a difference whether I’m wearing a vest or not. If I get shot in the chest… could be all the difference. Vests aren’t designed to protect everything. There is a reason why most agencies custom order armor for personnel, and they make sure certain area is covered. My hard armor… I have a lot uncovered at my lower torso (a lot of times, people do not fit their vests correctly… leaving more vitals exposed than if it was fitted right).

You have arteries, brain, neck… all can be fatal. Arteries… depending where you are hit… could be survivable with a tourniquet. But taking one in the area that the vest covers can cause just as devastating of a wound. Look at Oswald… that one .38 round from Ruby damaged his spleen, stomach, aorta, vena cava, kidney, liver, and diaphragm. Most people saw the shot and figured he would survive. Obviously… he did not.

I do like Clint Smith, but I disagree with that view. Having armor isn’t a bad thing or a hindrance… unless you argue it as such. Don’t want to wear it… that is fine. Most agencies recommend it in certain situations, and require it in others (for us, qualifications and live firearm training are required to have armor on). I know plenty of people who don’t wear armor at work. I didn’t due to the soft armor being IIIA, and when the III was originally offered… I was told that I had to wear the IIIA in an under carrier. Nope… I’m not being a sweaty mess everyday. When it was clarified and just hard armor was approved… I wear it everyday. All personal considerations.

If someone asks me if they should get armor for self protection… I’ll always say yes. Unless your skin stops bullets, I’ll always say you should.

Do you need to? That’s the question that the person needs to answer… and nobody really can answer for someone else. End of the day, your money is buying it, not mine.
Not saying armor is a bad idea, just saying a 9x9 plate in the front and back is like wearing a bikini when it comes to body armor coverage... not much there. Might want to look for larger plates, consider side plates, or look into soft armor, depending on your needs. Better than nothing, but personally I prefer to at least have my vitals covered from the front and back at a minimum.
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Old July 9, 2022, 12:52 PM   #12
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Not being in the LEO end of things, generally I'm not much interested in body armor/bulletproof vests and such things...

However, some years back (and its worse now than it was then) I was in a situation that involved driving round urban Portland in the wee hours, and I did hear some shots...

At that time, the thought occurred to me, that a vest might not save my life from someone intentionally shooting at me, but it might possibly protect part of me from stray gunfire. Probably wouldn't make a difference, but if I had been wearing some then, I would have felt a bit better...
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Old July 11, 2022, 03:36 PM   #13
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I'm part of our church safety/security team, serving every Sunday from 8:30-12:30. That's when I'd be wearing it. Would prefer Level 3 or Level 3+ (3A is at the bottom of the Level 3 scale). Lvl 3 supposedly protects up to 7.62/39 but not the 5.56/.223 that Lvl 3+ protects. Yeah, I was wondering about that smallish 9x9 plate when most plates that I see sold by themselves are bigger.
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Old July 11, 2022, 04:01 PM   #14
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I'm part of our church safety/security team, serving every Sunday from 8:30-12:30. That's when I'd be wearing it. Would prefer Level 3 or Level 3+ (3A is at the bottom of the Level 3 scale). Lvl 3 supposedly protects up to 7.62/39 but not the 5.56/.223 that Lvl 3+ protects. Yeah, I was wondering about that smallish 9x9 plate when most plates that I see sold by themselves are bigger.
Its better tgan nothing, but i would look for plates that are wide and tall enough to cover the width of your chest and from your from your neck to a couple inches above your belly button. Goal is to protect lungs and heart.

Also keep in mind, kevlar, polymer, snd ceramic have shelf lives. Usually 5 to 7yrs. Steel is heavy but never expires.
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Old July 11, 2022, 07:48 PM   #15
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Oh yeah, steel is great! Front and back full plates will run you roughly 35-50 lbs of weight. You will be uncomfortable and have some mobility issues. There will be no realistic concealment of what you have on because you just won't look or move right. These are best worn on top of lvl 3a soft armor so as to protect you from direct abrasion discomfort. There is nothing like the edge of a steel plate in a simple carrier digging into your skin.

You won't find too many people wearing full front and back steel plates AND carrying concealed.
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Old July 11, 2022, 08:33 PM   #16
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Oh yeah, steel is great! Front and back full plates will run you roughly 35-50 lbs of weight. You will be uncomfortable and have some mobility issues. There will be no realistic concealment of what you have on because you just won't look or move right. These are best worn on top of lvl 3a soft armor so as to protect you from direct abrasion discomfort. There is nothing like the edge of a steel plate in a simple carrier digging into your skin.

You won't find too many people wearing full front and back steel plates AND carrying concealed.
No matter what you do, hard plates, whether they are steel, polymer, or ceramic, are thick and don't conceal well, IMHO you wont have "realistic concealment" with any lvl 3 or lvl 3+ hard plates no matter the type.

Soft armor is still very bulky, and has much greater issues with back face deformation, which can injure or kill. it does conceal a little better, but it still stands out like a sore thumb too in those high ratings.

Its a game of trade offs, just want to OP to understand the options, and offering information. its up to the OP to decide.
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Old July 12, 2022, 04:12 AM   #17
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I'm part of our church safety/security team, serving every Sunday from 8:30-12:30. That's when I'd be wearing it. Would prefer Level 3 or Level 3+ (3A is at the bottom of the Level 3 scale). Lvl 3 supposedly protects up to 7.62/39 but not the 5.56/.223 that Lvl 3+ protects. Yeah, I was wondering about that smallish 9x9 plate when most plates that I see sold by themselves are bigger.
Level III does stop 5.56mm… just not M855 (Green tips).

Level III+ isn’t a real NIJ standard, but it usually denotes that the armor can stop a little more than III, but less than IV. Most usually can stop M855, but you’d want to see the plate capabilities before you buy.

As I said earlier, I always say you should get armor, if it is possible. Do you need it in that role? Not necessarily. Is this a role that multiple people carry out (if so, is everyone similar sized)? Is it sort of a fire watch type of role? What line of sight do you have on people entering the church?

Especially in GA, and depending on the time of the year, wearing armor can suck! I had to in FLETC from May to August. In northern ME, it still sucks this part of the year. But if I’m not dealing with people outside… my vest is nearby with one side undone… so if something does kick off, I can toss it on pretty quickly. If the situation dictates, getting a hard armor carrier and leaving it at the location you’d be at during the service is another option. Obviously you’d want it to be secured, but might be worth it to look at everyone involved and see if there is a way to get a setup that works.

I say that because like with guns… people tend to get lazy. Heavy gun, people will start to leave it home. Heavy/uncomfortable armor… people won’t wear it.

For the 9” x 9” plate… I’d think that is more for a backpack or some other specialized setup than for a regular vest. And if a place is closing something out at a low price… sometimes there is a reason. Not saying it won’t work, but might be an order that did not sell… and they want to get rid of it to make room for other things.
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Old July 12, 2022, 10:22 PM   #18
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I recently ordered one of the AR500 “Freeman” set ups. It is a 9x9 minimalistic plate. Now, im not a big guy (5’9” ~170), and these plates are SMALL.

I had a specific need for a small and light(ish) set up. I wanted a somewhat disposable set of plates that didnt cost much… to the point of, if i lost them i wouldn't really care.

This set met my needs.

That said if i feel the need to put on armor, im grabbing my “full size” kit with 10x12” plates.
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Old July 13, 2022, 03:20 PM   #19
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I'm 5'8" & 200 lbs, though nobody thinks I'm over 180 (which would STILL be too much). Yeah, I'm gonna hold off on that 9x9 Freeman setup. I'd much prefer 10x12 plates in Lvl 3+, too. Extracurricular money is about to get slim since my wife is gonna be buying stuff for our 2 new grand daughters!
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Old July 27, 2022, 01:01 PM   #20
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I bought 12x10 Level 3 plates and a carrier. I put it on and tried a shirt OVER it and it actually didn't print too badly, mostly on my back. I can see that in the fall and winter I should be able to wear a shirt and sport coat over it and barely be detectable if you know what you're looking for.
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Old July 27, 2022, 04:14 PM   #21
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I bought 12x10 Level 3 plates and a carrier. I put it on and tried a shirt OVER it and it actually didn't print too badly, mostly on my back. I can see that in the fall and winter I should be able to wear a shirt and sport coat over it and barely be detectable if you know what you're looking for.
Glad you got what you needed. Stay safe
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Old July 27, 2022, 04:59 PM   #22
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What would I do with Body Armor? Probably the same thing I do with most of my guns - not much but just enjoy having it.
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