Advice on building AR pistol in 22lr for wife and kid?

[Pistoler0]

Hi everybody,

Last Christmas I got an AR15 in 7.62x39 and my wife and 10 year old son are a bit jealous when they shoot their bolt actions next to me, they want to get in on the fun. They are both muzzle blast sensitive and shoot 22lr exclusively (I have not been successful introducing them to larger calibers and for now I want to stay with the 22).

I have been looking into AR rifles already built in 22lr and come across the Colt and the S&W MP 15-22, but I am not convinced by the reviews.

So I was thinking about building an AR pistol in 22lr, with a lower that I could use for other pistol builds in the future if I so wanted (maybe with time, they'd like to move up in caliber?).

I'd like to go with the pistol format because the weight is more manageable for them: my wife is very small and my son is still young. They are both lefties. I also have a 7 year old daughter that I would like to introduce to the shooting sports in the future. I was thinking that a 10" or 12" length barrel would be ideal, but what are you thoughts on this? I don't want to go shorter to prevent trainees from reaching in front of the muzzle with their support hand.

I have a couple of questions:

1) Can you please recommend an affordable PISTOL AR lower that would work with a 22lr upper, and that is mil-spec so that in the future other calibers can be used? My idea is that in the future I could purchase a 223 pistol upper for it.

2) Can you recommend a reliable 22lr AR upper?

The main use of the firearm would be to introduce new shooters to the AR platform and to do some plinking, maybe squirrel hunting. Reliability and accessory availability would be the most important considerations.

I am very new to the AR platform, please forgive my lack of experience. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.

Thank you

[MarkCO]

Any AR lower will do as long as it is mil-spec.

I still have an AR .22LR bolt carrier group from when I built AR22s. I'd be willing to meet you at the range some day when it is warmer and let you shoot mine. 8 to 10" is fine, but you do want to make sure the handguard, along with the reach, is appropriate to that the support hand of a newer shooter never gets near the end of the muzzle. I have seen fingers clipped by folks shooting a pistol with a short barrel and longer handguard.

[Pistoler0]

Originally Posted by MarkCO

Any AR lower will do as long as it is mil-spec.

I still have an AR .22LR bolt carrier group from when I built AR22s. I'd be willing to meet you at the range some day when it is warmer and let you shoot mine. 8 to 10" is fine, but you do want to make sure the handguard, along with the reach, is appropriate to that the support hand of a newer shooter never gets near the end of the muzzle. I have seen fingers clipped by folks shooting a pistol with a short barrel and longer handguard.

Thank you, I'll take your offer on that.

And good recommendation on the handguard, I had not thought about it.

[ss1/G8RFAN]

With pistol length AR's, I would recommend installing a hand stop on the rail if you have inexperienced (to the gun) shooters using it. I stopped an instructor from using a student's Kriss SBR from shooting the tip of her finger off just in the "knick of time".

[stagpanther]

With pistol length AR's, I would recommend installing a hand stop on the rail if you have inexperienced (to the gun) shooters using it.

+1; I'd recommend that no matter what your experience level is.

[Shadow9mm]

First and foremost, make sure you get a gun they will be happy with and can use, not the project build you want. I know its tempting. I have had to carefully consider several purchases for what I wanted, vs what would best suit the needs of a family gun.

Are they jealous because its an AR, or because its semi auto?

If they are having problems with blast, look into a linear comp or a blast forwarding device. I like the kaw valley linear comps. But there are plenty of good ones. And Indian creek blast forwarding device. It threads on behind your brake and is easy to take off, or put on when the family is shooting. Might help get them into the bigger stuff.

The M&P 15-22 is a good rifle. I got to shoot one the other day helping a guy and his son sight one in. much lighter than my AR, kids should have no problem. 100% reliable during their shooting and my helping. I would not overlook the rifle or pistol.

If they are left handed, the only actual left handed semi auto 22 I know of is the Savage. Just make sure they wont be getting brass in the face.

As far as looking towards the future and upgrades. I would not do that, not saying you shouldn't, but I wouldn't. The gun will mean a LOT more to them if they get to build it, or have help building it themselves later on and is theirs. You might consider a more standard 22, and buying a couple extra lowers with the savings....

Just my thoughts, glad you got a family that enjoys shooting! Keep up the good work! Also make sure you have plenty of 22s, semi autos seem to BURN through them compared to bolt guns. You might start going through 500 or more per outing.... I used to shoot a 550rnd brick every weekend when I was in high school in just a few hours....

[Pistoler0]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Are they jealous because its an AR, or because its semi auto?

[..]

If they are left handed, the only actual left handed semi auto 22 I know of is the Savage. Just make sure they wont be getting brass in the face.

They like the semi auto action, but I think they also enjoy the look of the modern AR: and bipods, and the possibility of adding a red dot.... Because I thought about the 10/22, but the AR platform is more customizable.

I'll see if I can find a M&P 15-22 at the local Cabela's or Bass Pro, and take a look at it.

I was thinking about getting one of those brass catching devices, the brass goat or whatever its called
https://brassgoat.com/products/brass-goat
to avoid the problem of brass in the face of the left hand shooter. Because you see the problem I have is that wife and son are left handed.... but younger (7 y.o) daughter (future shooter) is right handed!

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by Pistoler0

They like the semi auto action, but I think they also enjoy the look of the modern AR: and bipods, and the possibility of adding a red dot.... Because I thought about the 10/22, but the AR platform is more customizable.

I'll see if I can find a M&P 15-22 at the local Cabela's or Bass Pro, and take a look at it.

I was thinking about getting one of those brass catching devices, the brass goat or whatever its called
https://brassgoat.com/products/brass-goat
to avoid the problem of brass in the face of the left hand shooter. Because you see the problem I have is that wife and son are left handed.... but younger (7 y.o) daughter (future shooter) is right handed!

I have a brass goat. So far I really like it. It catches the brass. If you take the magazine off it shoots the brass straight down.

4 points on the brass goat, as I have one.
1-it is designed to fit mil-spec lowers. Not sure how it would fit on a 15-22
2-there is a bit of a gap between the brass goat and receiver. you could wind up with casings spilling depending on the orientation of the gun, but they should not come flying out.
3-not sure if it would block cheek weld or anything odd on the right side of the gun. i will throw mine on and check later today
4-a caldwell brass catcher that attaches to the picitinny on the top of the gun would be another option. mine struggled with 223 brass being a touch too hot at the necks and melting the mesh. it would be perfect with 22s...

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Pistoler0

I was thinking about getting one of those brass catching devices, the brass goat or whatever its called
https://brassgoat.com/products/brass-goat
to avoid the problem of brass in the face of the left hand shooter. Because you see the problem I have is that wife and son are left handed.... but younger (7 y.o) daughter (future shooter) is right handed!

Stag Arms used to make a fully left-handed AR-15 (as a rifle, I don't know if they ever offered it in a pistol configuration). I don't know if their lefty AR-15 would work with the CMMG rimfire conversion bolt carriers, though.

[Crunchy Frog]

The 15-22 is mostly polymer and more lightweight than a real AR. Available as a pistol, too. No, it will no convert to center fire but it’s a nice firearm.

I found a dedicated .22 LR upper on sale. It’s a pretty short barrel; I run it on a registered SBR lower. I thought about building a pistol lower for it but the costs of the bits I wanted to use made it too expensive.

[rep1954]

Upper- DPMS Low Pro Receiver
CMMG dedicated 4 1/2” barrel
CMMG 22lr Conversion bolt with collar
EO TECH XPS2 Holograpic sight

Lower- Spikes Tactical receiver
Small parts kit unknown
CMC 3 1/2# trigger module
KAK Industies Shockwave pistol brace

Just to much fun. I am 5’6” with shoes on and this under 20” gun fits me just fine. I use my support hand cupped around the mag well with forefinger and thumb resting on the tube. My 22lr rifles don’t see much use anymore with this around. Weighs in just under 4 1/2lbs.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/att...0&d=1615580496

[Pistoler0]

Originally Posted by rep1954

https://thefiringline.com/forums/att...0&d=1615580496

That's beauuuutiful

Share the recipe, please!

[9x19]

S&W M&P 15-22 pistols are available for $440 right now... I like (especially the weight of) mine, alot!



https://www.whittakerguns.com/product/84279

[AK103K]

I have an M&P15-22 and now that they replaced the one I had that wouldnt work, with one that does, its a fun gun. Some of the early guns had some issues, and my first was one of those. A recall gun that never wanted to work right. The new versions seem to be good to go.

Ive been thinking about getting one of the pistol versions, but they arent $450 around here anymore, more like $600 in the current market. Im waiting to see what happens. Not paying $600 for it.


A friend of mine I used to shoot a lot with back in the 80's and 90's had an M16 lower with a dedicated upper with a Ceiner 22lr conversion in it, and that worked great. Tons of fun to shoot. Mags (and their conversions) were a bit salty then, but they worked.

Most of the other 22 conversions Ive tried while interested in them, werent all that great. I never had much good luck with 22 conversions in general, and handgun or long gun, they just seemed to be more aggravation than they were worth. Specifically built guns seem to be the better way to go.

The M&P 15-22 seems to have things figured out now. Being slightly smaller and a bit lighter than a standard AR, they are perfect for younger kids too.

As far as the brass catchers and leftys, will that be a problem with them being mounted on the same side as their face?

I have Caldwell catchers and I really dont notice them when shooting normally "righty", but I find them somewhat annoying when I switch and shoot "lefty". The Caldwell nets are soft and arent really an issue as far as being an obstruction, as they lay pretty close to the gun. My right arm does tend to rest against the front of the bag when I shoot lefty. If youre shooting quickly/repetitively, you do feel the heat on bare skin too, but its not bad. I havent seen the hot brass melting the nets yet either.

I havent seen or shot a Brass Goat, from what Ive seen picture-wise, it looks like if youre shooting lefty, you'd have to try and reach around the box to get a grip on the front of the gun. You may want to look into that.

With the 22's or the 5.56's, the brass deflector does a good job of kicking the brass more forward or to the side. I have a couple of friends who are leftys, that shoot AR's, and they dont seem to have any problems with them "as is". Id try shooting the gun without it first, unless brass recovery is a priority.

While I havent tried one on my S&W 15-22 yet, you may want to look into a BAD lever. It would allow the lefties to drop the bolt without any effort or juggling of the gun. Just swap the mag and bump the lever.

Just be aware though, some guns dont like them or can be touchy with them. Most of my 5.56 guns including my S&W M&P 15 doesnt have a problem with them. For some reason, my one old Bushmaster didnt like it.

[GarandTd]

I just recently assembled a dedicated 22lr upper to use in conjunction with the lower to my 5.56 carbine. It's not the cheapest way, but I am very satisfied with the results.

Due to the blowback operation of the 22 bolt group, the upper is simplified. There is no need for a gas block or tube and the bolt travel is contained within the carrier so the buffer, spring, and tube aren't necessary either. Forward assist is optional. I used a standard upper receiver and plugged the forward assist hole.

Just like all other things AR platform related, the sky is the limit, provided you can find the parts. I've even seen AR pistols built to look like HanSolo's blaster.

[reddog81]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

The M&P 15-22 is a good rifle. I got to shoot one the other day helping a guy and his son sight one in. much lighter than my AR, kids should have no problem. 100% reliable during their shooting and my helping. I would not overlook the rifle or pistol.

Good advice. I have a 15-22 rifle and it's much lighter than any of the AR's I own. I'm guessing it'll be cheaper to just buy a S&W and be done with it versus buying components separately. Additionally the twist rate for the barrel is quite a bit different for the 22lr models and 5.56 models.

[44 AMP]

Advice on building AR pistol in 22lr for wife and kid?

My advice, and you're not going to like it, would be...Don't.

Or you could take that as "Don't bother..."

I have a number of reasons, all of which I think are valid, and fall into two general groups, "practical utility" and "legal".

Here are a few points to consider,

Semis (with a few rare exceptions) aren't that good for left handers.

AR "pistols" are only pistols due to the language of various laws. And what is on one side of the law today, could be moved to the other side of the law because enough people in DC say so. The "brace" that makes it legally a pistol today could be redefined as a "stock", turning a legal handgun into an NFA regulated firearm and possibly turning the owner into a criminal, for having it without proper Federal registration, license and tax paid.

The AR pistol (all calibers) is, in many states, already defined as an assault weapon, due to the physical features of the gun and the language of the law.

PITA but its the world we're living in.

Using an AR pistol for training beginning level shooters is, I feel, a poor choice.

They are significantly larger than regular pistols. They are heavier than regular pistols. Their balance is much different than regular pistols. All of these together make the learning curve very steep for beginners and pose challenges even to experienced shooters.

I think a carbine, with an actual stock is a much better choice. IF your youngsters aren't quite big enough to handle one, wait a while, they'll grow...

There are lots of decent to good quality .22LR semis that aren't ARs, and are generally lighter and easier for smaller folks to manage. (not to mention many are lower cost)

S&W says their AR type 22LR pistol weighs 53.6oz. And that's without optics. That's about half a dozen ounces heavier than some .44 Mag pistols, and quite a lot for smaller children to hold up.

If the idea is to teach someone how to shoot a pistol, an AR pistol is a poor choice to begin with. IF the idea is to teach someone the AR "platform" I still think the pistol is a poor choice to begin with, an actual rifle/carbine is better.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against owning any kind of gun you like, what I'm looking at here is suitability for stated task(s) and existing and potential future legal pitfalls.

Something else to consider, for your southpaw recoil/blast sensitive wife, look at the old Browning 22 semi auto rifle. Not cheap, not modular, not an AR or anything close. Slender and light, has a takedown feature. Can take a scope, has a tubular magazine in the stock, and ejects straight down.
Weighs next to nothing, and no ejection in her face.

NOT an AR but a good .22LR sporting rifle from the classic era. Worth a look, I think.

Happy shooting!

[ThomasT]

They like the semi auto action, but I think they also enjoy the look of the modern AR: and bipods, and the possibility of adding a red dot.... Because I thought about the 10/22, but the AR platform is more customizable.

I have never ever heard anyone say there was a gun that could be customized more than a 10/22. You may want to spend some time at rimfirecentral.com and see what people are doing to their 10/22 rifles.

If I wanted to teach someone to shoot a rimfire pistol I think I would just buy a rimfire pistol to start with. I have friends with a couple of young girls and they love shooting my Ruger 22 standard model 22s. They shoot those better than any 22 revolver they have tried.

Get one of the MK models made now with a scope base and you can add a Red Dot to it in just a few minutes. Plus they come with excellent open sights.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by AK103K

While I havent tried one on my S&W 15-22 yet, you may want to look into a BAD lever. It would allow the lefties to drop the bolt without any effort or juggling of the gun. Just swap the mag and bump the lever.

Just be aware though, some guns dont like them or can be touchy with them. Most of my 5.56 guns including my S&W M&P 15 doesnt have a problem with them. For some reason, my one old Bushmaster didnt like it.

As a lefty I just reach my index and middle fingers up and forward and hit the standard bolt release. I have stubby fingers and it seems to work.


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[AK103K]

That works too. I like the BAD levers as they put the controls needed for the mag change together.

Also makes locking the bolt back with no mag in the gun easier, with either hand too.

They are pretty handy once you get used to them.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by AK103K

That works too. I like the BAD levers as they put the controls needed for the mag change together.

Also makes locking the bolt back with no mag in the gun easier, with either hand too.

They are pretty handy once you get used to them.

I do generally use a ambi mag release and I don’t find reaching between that and the bolt release to be a problem and I seem to be able to lock the bolt back without issue. That said I haven’t tried one myself, but I’ll keep it in mind thanks.


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[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

AR "pistols" are only pistols due to the language of various laws. And what is on one side of the law today, could be moved to the other side of the law because enough people in DC say so. The "brace" that makes it legally a pistol today could be redefined as a "stock", turning a legal handgun into an NFA regulated firearm and possibly turning the owner into a criminal, for having it without proper Federal registration, license and tax paid.

The brace doesn't make it a pistol -- the lack of a shoulder stock makes it a pistol. The very first AR pistols didn't have "braces," they just had a round buffer tube hanging off the aft end. Then people started putting the equivalent of a tennis ball on the end of the buffer tube, and then along came the "braces."

That said -- the argument that the "brace" could be reclassified as a shoulder stock is, IMHO, completely valid. This is why it upsets me every time I see someone on YouTube bragging about firing their new AR "pistol" and showing themselves firing it with the "wrist brace" tucked into their shoulder.

The law defines a rifle as a firearm designed (or "intended," I'd have to look up the law to be sure) to be fired from the shoulder. The use of a "wrist brace" to fire from the shoulder occasionally is an exception that the BATFE has been allowing -- for now. But, at what point do you violate the law? If you build an AR "pistol" with one of those "braces" and you know full well when you begin the build that your intention is to use the "wrist brace" as a shoulder stock -- IMHO you will be violating the law when you complete the build and start using your nice new NFA short barrel rifle.

If enough people keep posting those videos, sooner or later the BATFE is going to want to put the genie back in the bottle.

[AK103K]

One thing Ive never understood here, is why the NRA has never taken up all the conflicting and contrary ATF decisions and edicts that seem to be forever coming.

Seems to me, there are plenty of flip-flops and arbitrary changes in whats supposed to be legal and not. So where is the NRA and all the others supposedly watching out for our rights in all this?

Personally, I think its because they need all the drama and confusion just like the politicians, to keep that big money coming in. Wayne needs a new suit and Mercedes dont ya know.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

The brace doesn't make it a pistol -- the lack of a shoulder stock makes it a pistol. The very first AR pistols didn't have "braces," they just had a round buffer tube hanging off the aft end. Then people started putting the equivalent of a tennis ball on the end of the buffer tube, and then along came the "braces."

That said -- the argument that the "brace" could be reclassified as a shoulder stock is, IMHO, completely valid. This is why it upsets me every time I see someone on YouTube bragging about firing their new AR "pistol" and showing themselves firing it with the "wrist brace" tucked into their shoulder.

The law defines a rifle as a firearm designed (or "intended," I'd have to look up the law to be sure) to be fired from the shoulder. The use of a "wrist brace" to fire from the shoulder occasionally is an exception that the BATFE has been allowing -- for now. But, at what point do you violate the law? If you build an AR "pistol" with one of those "braces" and you know full well when you begin the build that your intention is to use the "wrist brace" as a shoulder stock -- IMHO you will be violating the law when you complete the build and start using your nice new NFA short barrel rifle.

If enough people keep posting those videos, sooner or later the BATFE is going to want to put the genie back in the bottle.

We’ve talked about this before and generally I agree with you. I believe braces started for a genuine reason and then people realized they were a way to skirt the NFA. It doesn’t bother me personally that people film it. I think the genie has been out of the bottle for some time and there’s plenty of evidence out there.

I have both an SBR and a pistol equipped with a brace. Besides the cost of a tax stamp there are also the legal requirements involved in traveling with the SBR as well as who is able to possess the SBR (which gets into NFA trusts and the like). It wouldn’t surprise me if the current ATF guidance on braces changed in the near future. My guess is a number of people went the brace route to avoid the legal headache of the NFA, but that headache reduction might not last.


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[stagpanther]

The concept of the AR pistol using a short barrel and brace "came into being" not through any attempt at getting around SBR rules--they came about as a result of developing an "assistive" device so disabled people--such as vets--could shoot with just one hand/arm. The term brace had a specific use intent in that context as it was never intended to be used as a shoulder stock. The ATF has probably realized that they would have a tough time "proving intent" if the brace was potentially used as a shoulder stock. Shooting public being what it is, they have pushed the concept to the limit way past its original intent.