Getting a lot of lead in chamber of 38/40 1873 Uberti

mrappe · July 22, 2017, 04:11 PM

I have been shooting my original 73 Winchester at CAS matches for 20 years and in the past 7 years I noticed that I was getting a lot of lead buildup in the chamber all along the length of the brass. By the end of a match it would net tight when chambering a round. I would have to take the whole gun apart and scrape out the lead flakes with a dental tool. Several months ago I bought a new Taylor's / Uberti 73 also in 38/40 so that I could stop shooting a gun that was made in 1885. I have shot the new rifle in 2 monthly matches and found that it too was doing the same thing. in fact It had more lead in it. I created a tool with a brass case a brass jag and casting resin to get the lead out, I works well but I am trying to figure out why this is happening in the first place. I have been using the same loading specs for 20 years,

Mike

Smoke & Recoil · July 22, 2017, 04:27 PM

I never have problems with 73, circa 1885, 38-40, I load with real black powder from a 24" drop tube and wheel weight lead with a card between. Are you using a drop tube to get a completely full case ?

mrappe · July 22, 2017, 05:31 PM

I have not slugged the bore(s) or chamber(s) and I will have to measure the bullet. I get my bullets from a guy in my club who does it professionally so I will have to ask him about the hardness. I am shooting smokeless powder. It is a load that I got from a fellow club member years ago that owned a cartridge loading company whom I bought rounds from before I started reloading. I have not choreographed them but they are not light loads

thanks,
Mike

EphraimKibbey · July 22, 2017, 07:02 PM

mrappe - What bullets were you using before the problem started 7 years ago!!! Try them again and see if it solves the problem.

Hawg · July 22, 2017, 07:56 PM

It sounds like you're running soft bullets too fast with the smokeless. Wait you said chamber. Maybe the bullet is digging into the edge of the chamber and shaving lead off.

44 Dave · July 22, 2017, 11:25 PM

Are .38-40s as varied as .44-40s as to chamber and bore dimensions?

mrappe · July 24, 2017, 04:06 PM

The loads that I am using are somewhere in the middle of the manufacturer's recommendations. According to there specs they should be around 840 fps. The bullet is 0.401 " and with my CabineTree Lead Hardness Tester the lead looks to be around SAECO 10 or Binell 22. Years ago I made some rounds without powder or primer that I use for testing because the I suspected the old Winchester of shaving lead off when cambering rounds. When I operate the gun with them I don't see that happening. I have always used Redding Dies on the recommendation of the same person that I got the loading info from. I used the crimping that was built into the bullet seating die and had no problems with that with my Winchester. When I got the Uberti which is 4" shorter I found that using the die crimp was not enough when loading 10 cartridges into the gun the mag spring was pushing the bullets
back into the cases so I now use a Lee Factory Crimp Die to crimp the bullets in. When I used the bullet seating die to crimp in the past sometimes I would get a small shaved ring of lead where the edge of the brass met the crimping groove but I usually removed the ring with my fingernail and it would fall off. I have not measured the chamber(s) or bore as of yet. I will have to find out the best way to do that.

Mike

mehavey · July 24, 2017, 04:13 PM

Quote:

lead looks to be around SAECO 10 or Binell 22

You're waaaay too hard and the bullet's not expanding/squishing/obdurating
to seal the rifling upon entering the throat.
Get the mix down to 30-1/BN 6 or so.
(yes, "6")

(I getta lotta use outta this pic

)

.

**4V50 Gary** · July 25, 2017, 12:27 PM

Lewis Lead Remover or copper chore boy wrapped around an old cleaning brush.

I wonder if the previous lead alloy was harder/softer?

Sure Shot Mc Gee · July 25, 2017, 11:00 PM

Maybe you should consider trying Gas Checked boolits to see a leading cure.

BTW: I stopped shooting plain base bullets years ago. Only G/C in both pistol & rifle these days.

Although I do like to shoot plain based cast {paper patch} wrapped for accuracy.

mehavey · July 25, 2017, 11:34 PM

At the speeds the OP cites -- 840fps -- he is running low pressure and needs a SOFT bullet.
In fact try pure lead in that regime.

jaguarxk120 · July 26, 2017, 08:06 AM

There is no mention of bullet lube, sometimes a change in lube

will affect leading.

the Black Spot · July 26, 2017, 08:39 AM

Lead in the chamber? Full length of the brass?
Sounds like the load is not warm enough for the brass to fill the chamber and seal it.
The bullet could be oversized, bogs down on entering rifling causing the gas to melt some lead on the base. With the bullet bogged down(because of oversize) if blows the lead backward before case can expand and seal chamber.

July 22, 2017, 04:27 PM	#2
Smoke & Recoil Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: East shore of Lake Michigan. Posts: 714	I never have problems with 73, circa 1885, 38-40, I load with real black powder from a 24" drop tube and wheel weight lead with a card between. Are you using a drop tube to get a completely full case ? __________________ Sent from my Tandy 1000

July 22, 2017, 05:31 PM	#3
mrappe Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 253	I have not slugged the bore(s) or chamber(s) and I will have to measure the bullet. I get my bullets from a guy in my club who does it professionally so I will have to ask him about the hardness. I am shooting smokeless powder. It is a load that I got from a fellow club member years ago that owned a cartridge loading company whom I bought rounds from before I started reloading. I have not choreographed them but they are not light loads thanks, Mike __________________ God is fluxing me which is good but it is not fun.

July 24, 2017, 04:06 PM	#7
mrappe Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 253	The loads that I am using are somewhere in the middle of the manufacturer's recommendations. According to there specs they should be around 840 fps. The bullet is 0.401 " and with my CabineTree Lead Hardness Tester the lead looks to be around SAECO 10 or Binell 22. Years ago I made some rounds without powder or primer that I use for testing because the I suspected the old Winchester of shaving lead off when cambering rounds. When I operate the gun with them I don't see that happening. I have always used Redding Dies on the recommendation of the same person that I got the loading info from. I used the crimping that was built into the bullet seating die and had no problems with that with my Winchester. When I got the Uberti which is 4" shorter I found that using the die crimp was not enough when loading 10 cartridges into the gun the mag spring was pushing the bullets back into the cases so I now use a Lee Factory Crimp Die to crimp the bullets in. When I used the bullet seating die to crimp in the past sometimes I would get a small shaved ring of lead where the edge of the brass met the crimping groove but I usually removed the ring with my fingernail and it would fall off. I have not measured the chamber(s) or bore as of yet. I will have to find out the best way to do that. Mike __________________ God is fluxing me which is good but it is not fun.

July 25, 2017, 12:27 PM	#9
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	Lewis Lead Remover or copper chore boy wrapped around an old cleaning brush. I wonder if the previous lead alloy was harder/softer? __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

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July 22, 2017, 07:02 PM	#4
EphraimKibbey Member Join Date: December 1, 2010 Posts: 23	mrappe - What bullets were you using before the problem started 7 years ago!!! Try them again and see if it solves the problem.

July 22, 2017, 07:56 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	It sounds like you're running soft bullets too fast with the smokeless. Wait you said chamber. Maybe the bullet is digging into the edge of the chamber and shaving lead off.

July 22, 2017, 11:25 PM	#6
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	Are .38-40s as varied as .44-40s as to chamber and bore dimensions?

July 25, 2017, 11:00 PM	#10
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Maybe you should consider trying Gas Checked boolits to see a leading cure. BTW: I stopped shooting plain base bullets years ago. Only G/C in both pistol & rifle these days. Although I do like to shoot plain based cast {paper patch} wrapped for accuracy.

July 25, 2017, 11:34 PM	#11
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,883	At the speeds the OP cites -- 840fps -- he is running low pressure and needs a SOFT bullet. In fact try pure lead in that regime.

July 26, 2017, 08:06 AM	#12
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	There is no mention of bullet lube, sometimes a change in lube will affect leading.

July 26, 2017, 08:39 AM	#13
the Black Spot Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: arkansas Posts: 218	Lead in the chamber? Full length of the brass? Sounds like the load is not warm enough for the brass to fill the chamber and seal it. The bullet could be oversized, bogs down on entering rifling causing the gas to melt some lead on the base. With the bullet bogged down(because of oversize) if blows the lead backward before case can expand and seal chamber.