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Old November 16, 2019, 02:07 AM   #1
bamaranger
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reduced recoil v. full power slugs POI?

I'm dealing with a vicious kicking stubby 12ga Mossberg 500 slug gun (18" bbl) and one option is to shoot reduced recoil slugs from the little monster.

I'd like to hear from anybody that has shot both full power and reduced recoil slugs from their gun and what type of variance in POI at did they discover?

I have 10 rds of RR slugs on hand, and eventually will get around to shooting some and see, but curious as to others results.
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Old November 19, 2019, 05:59 PM   #2
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Limiting the discussion to one ounce Foster type slugs, there are several, (nominal), velocity levels available: 1200 fps, 1350 fps, 1600 fps and *1700fps. Realize those velocities are usually taken from factory 30" test barrels, so shorter slug gun barrels will register lower actual velocities.

Most of the "tactical" rifled slug loads are rated at 1200 fps. Federal's Deep Penetrator at 1350 fps and then 1600 fps for most of the one ounce "standard" slugs.

With the same payload, the usual relative POI will run somewhat higher with lower velocity slugs due to increased barrel time. There is, however, a marked reduction in perceived recoil when dropping down to the 1350 fps level.

The Federal Deep Penetrator, (1350 fps nominal velocity), is my prefered among the readily available Foster slugs. The slightly harder alloy with a thicker nose and sidewalls result much deeper penetration - needed for larger hogs. And with a projectile starting at .73", how much expansion do you really need?

On recoil, simply draping your soft shotgun case over your shoulder will make a difference. Also, shooting from a standing bench, (modified short ladder with sandbags), makes a big difference!

On the subject of Rifled Slug Penetration vs Expansion, I found the following videos illustrate the difference quite well.

WW 1 ounce 2.75" slug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKge3FF0Hx4&t=21s

Federal Deep Penetrator 1 ounce 2.75" slug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAq5jNBrRbw&t=134s

*Remington one ounce 3 inch slug load.

Last edited by RMcL; November 19, 2019 at 06:22 PM.
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Old November 19, 2019, 09:02 PM   #3
bamaranger
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slugs

The 10 low recoil slugs I have on hand are Remington 1200 variety, we will see how they do, or at least one of them does. I am out of depression adjustment on the Mossberg, if they print too high, I am out of luck. The 1350fps Fed Penetrator load is interesting and I was not aware of it, thanks.

I have been surprised at how soft a standard Foster slug really is, and how average its penetration can be at the 1600 fps level. On the only two deer I've ever shot w/ a slug, neither exited. Both looked like lead silver dollars! The advent of ballistic gel and everybody posting video confirms what I've always suspected. Unless your slug is a harder alloy, Fosters aren't the massive penetrators some (like me) thought they would be.

Part of the problem that day I got beat up by the stubby Mossberg was my shooting position. The rest arrangement was too low, and I was in behind the gun very solidly, I'll address that next time too.
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Old November 23, 2019, 03:52 PM   #4
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One of the most egregious examples of poor penetration with the current generation of "hollow point" rifled slugs I have seen, was a penetration comparison between a Remington 2.75" 20 gauge 5/8 ounce rifled slug round and a Winchester #3B load on "The Box of Truth" website. In this case several layers of denim fronted a number of one gallon plastic jugs of water.

The #3B load from the 20 gauges penetrated into the fourth water jug.

The 20 bore slug fragmented and only made it into the second water jug.

Not the most scientific example but certainly unexpected!

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box...gauge-shotgun/
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Old November 28, 2019, 11:42 PM   #5
bamaranger
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the results

Got a chance to shoot the stubby 12 ga rifle sighted Mossgerg with Rem, 1 oz managed recoil slugs, velocity claimed 1200 fps. As advised and expected, easier on the shoulder but..........they did indeed print 6-8" higher than their high velocity brethren. Not an option as I am out of depression adjustment on the rear sight, in fact, to get where I'm at currently, I've removed the sliding leaf, which brought hi-vels to point of aim at 50.

So hi-vels it is, man up and shoot and quit whining....got it.
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Old November 28, 2019, 11:57 PM   #6
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at 25 yards I noticed no off hand difference in POA/POI with a 20" Mossberg using either full power of reduced recoil slugs.
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Old November 29, 2019, 09:03 AM   #7
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Depends on what you intend to do with it. My use for slugs is competition so I use low recoil but would not hesitate to use it for serious social purposes. If you are trying to stretch the range for hunting, the full power of magnum might be better.
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Old November 30, 2019, 12:38 AM   #8
RMcL
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Another alternative low recoil rifled slug round

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaranger View Post
Got a chance to shoot the stubby 12 ga rifle sighted Mossgerg with Rem, 1 oz managed recoil slugs, velocity claimed 1200 fps. As advised and expected, easier on the shoulder but..........they did indeed print 6-8" higher than their high velocity brethren. Not an option as I am out of depression adjustment on the rear sight, in fact, to get where I'm at currently, I've removed the sliding leaf, which brought hi-vels to point of aim at 50.

So hi-vels it is, man up and shoot and quit whining....got it.

As for options that may split the POI difference between *1600 fps one ounce rifled slugs and the very manageable *1200 fps.

By manipulating the barrel time with slightly higher velocity you may be able to get both reduced recoil and bring your point of impact down to two or so inches above point of aim at 50 yards. That should be a workable zero with your light "walk-about" 12 bore.

I overlooked one additonal rifled slug option from Federal. This a one ounce payload at a nominal *1300 fps.

https://www.federalpremium.com/shots...PB127+LRS.html

Or perhaps the *1350 fps Federa Deep penetrator already discussed.

https://www.federalpremium.com/shots...B127+DPRS.html

Be sure to "click" on the Average Range tab under Ballistics for both slugs above.

* All velocities from 30" industry test barrels.

Last edited by RMcL; November 30, 2019 at 10:29 PM.
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Old November 30, 2019, 12:45 AM   #9
bamaranger
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goal

Ultimately, I am trying to get the gun to shoot to point of aim w/o kicking me silly in the process. It is now on target with hi-vels. This older Mossberg has from the get go shot high, but by removing the sliding leaf from the rear sight, I've gained sufficient adjustment to get on target at 50 yds with hi-vel slugs and am going to go with that. The gun is not tapped for a scope and I don't really want an optic on it anyhow. The front sight is one unit, apparently soldered to the barrel, no dove tail or simple manner to swap out front sights for a different height.

The stubby Mossberg is a vicious kicker with the hi-vel slugs. Honestly, it is the worst firearm recoil wise I've ever shot, and I attribute that to its stubby barrel and light weight alloy receiver. Though I don't want to, I see a stock docking and a top end recoil pad in its future. The steel framed, 20" rifle sighted Remingtons we shot regularly for quals at work were far more pleasant to shoot. The managed recoil slugs were an experiment to see if they would shoot to point of aim in this Mossberg and make the gun more manageable. Iron sights and slugs for me means a 50 yd gun, and the low recoil slugs would have been more than sufficient, but as stated, they shoot too high. and I've no way to get them lower.
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Old November 30, 2019, 01:11 AM   #10
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There are more rifled slug weight and velocity choices available in today than ever before in the ammunition marketplace. Smoothbore slug gunners have never had it so good.

This variety has made manipulating the vertical point of impact through rifled slug velocity selection, a reasonably viable method to adjust slug point of impact in shotguns.

Another tool in the toolbox.

To the OP: Best of luck.

Last edited by RMcL; November 30, 2019 at 10:30 PM.
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Old December 2, 2019, 12:02 AM   #11
bamaranger
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check

Thanks, I checked both links and had no idea until your responses that there was such diversity in the slug game. The mid range 1200 Feds seem a viable option. I will check for them at a big gun store (Larry's) over in Huntsville. Locally, the only options are 1 oz hi-vels and the occassional 1 oz/1200 variety. A couple of inches high a 50yd would be ideal, we shall see what happens.

I like your label of a "walk-about " 12 ga. There really is very little to this gun, it is truly diminutive. And I got it and some buckshot for SD very affordably. I am basically an archer and rifleman/carbine for deer, but a stubby, smoothbore seems appealing as a close deer thumper, and I like the versatility a shotgun offers with a variety loads as a truck gun.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.
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Old December 2, 2019, 09:23 AM   #12
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Do you think our mutual friend would cut a dovetail across that front ramp and put in a blade of the right height for the Right Shell?
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Old December 2, 2019, 03:17 PM   #13
bamaranger
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friends

Hello Jim, that is an option I had not considered.

Yes I think Herr Oberst would do that, but since I am prevailing upon him for another task (with muzzle loaders x 2) I am reluctant to weigh upon him yet again.

I have a similar situation (fixed front blade) w/ a Henry .22, if I've not mentioned it to you remind me Wednesday.
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Old December 3, 2019, 01:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
I have been surprised at how soft a standard Foster slug really is,
I don't think they are pure lead, but they are pretty soft, because they need to be. The "vanes" on a rifled slug (the part that looks like rifling) aren't there to cause spin, they are there to provide "room" for the slug to compress, in order to pass safely through any choke encountered. They need to be soft in order to do that. Shotgun barrels are thin, and don't take well to higher pressures than designed for.

The Forster "rifled slug" was made to work in ALL shotguns no matter the choke. While cylinder bores usually give best results, slugs are used in all choke guns, including full choke, and they need to be on the soft side to squeeze through the choke without putting undue stress on the gun.
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