laser cast bullets

CapeFear · February 26, 2001, 04:43 PM

Do any of you have experience with the http://www.laser-cast.com .309 or .310 non gas checked 170 grain bullets? I want to shoot them out of a 30-30 Winchester at somewhere between 1300 to 1500 fps. I have seen the no leading guarantee on the website and heard second hand that these are cast hard enough to handle those speeds. I realize lots of people push cast bullets much faster but in my experience somewhere between 1300 and 1400 fps is where a lot of bullets start leaving that film we all love to scrub out so much.

tonyz · February 26, 2001, 05:48 PM

I have used laser-Cast Bullets for many years and have found them to be very Accurate and they have given me no leading problem's even at high velocitys. Buy 500 to try, with there money back GUARANTEED what can you lose.

Best Tony

[Edited by tonyz on 02-26-2001 at 08:20 PM]

Scooter2 · February 27, 2001, 12:18 AM

Better yet, called them and ask for a free sample.

Monkeyleg · February 27, 2001, 06:16 PM

I used Lasercast bullets in my .45 ACP. While the leading was significantly less than regular cast lead bullets, there was still some lead in the bore after a hundred or so rounds. I've since switched to some 230 LRN's from a local store, since the Lasercast were costing me so much in shipping. And I don't see a difference in accuracy.

Dick

Good Guy · February 27, 2001, 11:18 PM

I've pushed Lasercast bullets hard with maximum loads in the 44 and 357 mag sixguns. No significant leading in my guns. I've settled on them for all my hardcast reloading needs in handguns. I've never used them in a long gun, though I will someday in the 45-70.

Contender · February 28, 2001, 04:01 PM

Try Beartooth Bullets. They will cast them and size them to fit your bore size. Have you slugged your bore? How about the throat? Proper bullet fit is essential to accuracy and freedom from leading. Generic sizing is at best hit or miss.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com

Regards

zot · February 28, 2001, 11:26 PM

Contender,are those Beartooth bullets plated? and what does PB mean? I know GC is gas check, first place I've seen that
sell Keith style 250 gr. .44s, and some really heavy .44s.

RugerNo3 · March 1, 2001, 11:31 AM

zot, PB is plain based. No they are not plated bullets. Just quality hand cast bullets. Low antimony for toughness and heatreated for hardness. Nose may be tempered for expansion if desired. Use plain base in handguns and gas checked in rifles. Enjoy.

Grapeshot · March 2, 2001, 11:07 PM

I have some .44's from them that leaded my .44 Special so badly that I had to resort to JB Bore Paste, and then there was a lot of work involved getting the leading out.

What's unusual was that these were light, low-recoil plinking loads.

I could return them but haven't had time to deal with it, and besides it annoys me to no end that they specifically advertise that their bullets DON'T do this and they were in fact the worst leaders I've ever seen.

Contender · March 3, 2001, 12:34 AM

Grapeshot,

I doubt you got a "bad" batch. What is more likely is that the bullets either don't fit your chambers or bore diameter. Probably too small on both counts. Slug your bore and each chamber and measure the diameters. Ideally, the chambers should be uniform diameters and either the same diameter or larger than the bore diameter in your barrel. If the chambers are smaller than your bore diameter or are quite varied from one to the next, consider having them reamed larger to match the bore diameter of the barrel.

What is most likely happening in your gun is that the combustion gases are blowing past your bullets and gas cutting them which in turn deposits lead on the barrel in front of the bullet where it is then ironed on over and over again with each shot. The hard cast bullets won't obturate to seal the bore at the 44 special pressure levels.

Take one of your bullets you have there and see how it fits at the mouth of your chambers. I'll bet they are a bit smaller than the chamber diameters where they should be a press fit with only finger pressure or thereabouts.

You could go to a softer alloy so the bullet would obturate at the lower 44 special pressures to seal the bore but, it is best to find out your chamber diameters and bore diameter to aquire the proper size lead bullet to start with. Generic sizing doesn't always work out with cast bullets.

Head over to http://www.beartoothbullets.com and check out the info on this site. Feel free to ask questions on the forum over there also.

WESHOOT2 · March 3, 2001, 07:24 AM

Beartooth and Cast Performance are the very best. Fact.

zot · March 5, 2001, 12:03 AM

loaded 12 rds. 23.3 gr. of H-110, with 240 gr. FP lazer cast bullets. Bought 50 rds. Winchester 240 gr. JSP's, reloads were totally innacurate, 8 inch spread...can't figure it. fired Winchester and got 3 inch group at 50 ft. muzzle blast and recoil the exact same. primers flatter on Winchester but a lot of gas blow back, reloads cleaner primers not as flattened.....whats the deal with the inaccuracy of reloads?? Winchester factory ammo is damned accurate...my gun is a Ruger Redhawk.

Scooter2 · March 5, 2001, 01:43 AM

Zot, with the figures from the Laser-cast reloading manual, the load would be traveling at over 1400 fps with a 9.5" barrel. Winchester doesn't specify the test barrel length, but their load is going 1180 fps. Your load is also below the starting charge listed in the manual. With H110, it is also not recommended to go below 3% of max charge. You have to remember that not all loads will work with a particular gun. The goal of reloading is to find the ideal load for your gun. You need to experiment with the load, vary the charge, vary the OAL, and even switch powders to find that ideal load.

CapeFear · March 5, 2001, 08:14 AM

You guys are right on the money with this one. The laser cast bullets I bought would lead when the load was under 1000 fps. The rounds that where going 1400 to 1600 fps worked great. Talk about reversed and upside down. It goes against all my other cast bullet experience to load faster not slower when leading starts. Something new everyday. Now to try the gas checked.

Contender · March 5, 2001, 02:56 PM

Cape Fear,

From your post, what you are dealing with is improper bullet fit.

With the heavier loads, you can get by because your bullets are obturating to seal the bore, thus no leading.

With the lighter loads, you can't because the pressure won't obturate the bullet, the bore is not sealed, thus leading occurs.

If your bullets were the correct fit from the start, you could use them with either high or low velocity/pressure loads and be satisfied with little to no leading.

Contrary to myth, a gas check's job is NOT to protect the base of the bullet from hot powder gases. It's job is to be in effect, and increase in hardness of the base of the bullet. A harder "wrench" to engage the rifle and prevent bullet base obturation in heavy, high pressure loads from overcoming the film strength of the bullet lubricant.

Zot, Cast bullets must fit the bore correctly to work and be accurate. Jacketed bullet "stock diameters" are a compromise that works due to the hardness of the jacket material. A cast bullet alloy in comparison is very soft. A cast bullet needs to fit the chamber properly for support and sealing the bore. If certain criteria aren't met, accuracy suffers.

Regards

March 2, 2001, 11:07 PM	#9
Grapeshot Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2000 Location: WV Posts: 351	Guess I got a bad batch of LaserCast bullets ... I have some .44's from them that leaded my .44 Special so badly that I had to resort to JB Bore Paste, and then there was a lot of work involved getting the leading out. What's unusual was that these were light, low-recoil plinking loads. I could return them but haven't had time to deal with it, and besides it annoys me to no end that they specifically advertise that their bullets DON'T do this and they were in fact the worst leaders I've ever seen.

March 3, 2001, 07:24 AM	#11
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Beartooth and Cast Performance are the very best. Fact. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

March 5, 2001, 08:14 AM	#14
CapeFear Member Join Date: April 8, 1999 Posts: 92	Too Slow You guys are right on the money with this one. The laser cast bullets I bought would lead when the load was under 1000 fps. The rounds that where going 1400 to 1600 fps worked great. Talk about reversed and upside down. It goes against all my other cast bullet experience to load faster not slower when leading starts. Something new everyday. Now to try the gas checked.

February 26, 2001, 04:43 PM	#1
CapeFear Member Join Date: April 8, 1999 Posts: 92	Do any of you have experience with the http://www.laser-cast.com .309 or .310 non gas checked 170 grain bullets? I want to shoot them out of a 30-30 Winchester at somewhere between 1300 to 1500 fps. I have seen the no leading guarantee on the website and heard second hand that these are cast hard enough to handle those speeds. I realize lots of people push cast bullets much faster but in my experience somewhere between 1300 and 1400 fps is where a lot of bullets start leaving that film we all love to scrub out so much.

February 26, 2001, 05:48 PM	#2
tonyz Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Location: Wa Posts: 922	I have used laser-Cast Bullets for many years and have found them to be very Accurate and they have given me no leading problem's even at high velocitys. Buy 500 to try, with there money back GUARANTEED what can you lose. Best Tony [Edited by tonyz on 02-26-2001 at 08:20 PM]

February 27, 2001, 12:18 AM	#3
Scooter2 Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2001 Posts: 115	Better yet, called them and ask for a free sample.

February 27, 2001, 06:16 PM	#4
Monkeyleg Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2000 Posts: 4,625	I used Lasercast bullets in my .45 ACP. While the leading was significantly less than regular cast lead bullets, there was still some lead in the bore after a hundred or so rounds. I've since switched to some 230 LRN's from a local store, since the Lasercast were costing me so much in shipping. And I don't see a difference in accuracy. Dick

February 27, 2001, 11:18 PM	#5
Good Guy Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 1999 Posts: 638	I've pushed Lasercast bullets hard with maximum loads in the 44 and 357 mag sixguns. No significant leading in my guns. I've settled on them for all my hardcast reloading needs in handguns. I've never used them in a long gun, though I will someday in the 45-70.

February 28, 2001, 04:01 PM	#6
Contender Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1998 Location: NY Posts: 680	Try Beartooth Bullets. They will cast them and size them to fit your bore size. Have you slugged your bore? How about the throat? Proper bullet fit is essential to accuracy and freedom from leading. Generic sizing is at best hit or miss. http://www.beartoothbullets.com Regards

February 28, 2001, 11:26 PM	#7
zot Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 1999 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 566	Contender,are those Beartooth bullets plated? and what does PB mean? I know GC is gas check, first place I've seen that sell Keith style 250 gr. .44s, and some really heavy .44s.

March 1, 2001, 11:31 AM	#8
RugerNo3 Member Join Date: December 19, 2000 Location: Salem, OH Posts: 97	zot, PB is plain based. No they are not plated bullets. Just quality hand cast bullets. Low antimony for toughness and heatreated for hardness. Nose may be tempered for expansion if desired. Use plain base in handguns and gas checked in rifles. Enjoy.

March 3, 2001, 12:34 AM	#10
Contender Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1998 Location: NY Posts: 680	Grapeshot, I doubt you got a "bad" batch. What is more likely is that the bullets either don't fit your chambers or bore diameter. Probably too small on both counts. Slug your bore and each chamber and measure the diameters. Ideally, the chambers should be uniform diameters and either the same diameter or larger than the bore diameter in your barrel. If the chambers are smaller than your bore diameter or are quite varied from one to the next, consider having them reamed larger to match the bore diameter of the barrel. What is most likely happening in your gun is that the combustion gases are blowing past your bullets and gas cutting them which in turn deposits lead on the barrel in front of the bullet where it is then ironed on over and over again with each shot. The hard cast bullets won't obturate to seal the bore at the 44 special pressure levels. Take one of your bullets you have there and see how it fits at the mouth of your chambers. I'll bet they are a bit smaller than the chamber diameters where they should be a press fit with only finger pressure or thereabouts. You could go to a softer alloy so the bullet would obturate at the lower 44 special pressures to seal the bore but, it is best to find out your chamber diameters and bore diameter to aquire the proper size lead bullet to start with. Generic sizing doesn't always work out with cast bullets. Head over to http://www.beartoothbullets.com and check out the info on this site. Feel free to ask questions on the forum over there also.

March 5, 2001, 12:03 AM	#12
zot Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 1999 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 566	loaded 12 rds. 23.3 gr. of H-110, with 240 gr. FP lazer cast bullets. Bought 50 rds. Winchester 240 gr. JSP's, reloads were totally innacurate, 8 inch spread...can't figure it. fired Winchester and got 3 inch group at 50 ft. muzzle blast and recoil the exact same. primers flatter on Winchester but a lot of gas blow back, reloads cleaner primers not as flattened.....whats the deal with the inaccuracy of reloads?? Winchester factory ammo is damned accurate...my gun is a Ruger Redhawk.

March 5, 2001, 01:43 AM	#13
Scooter2 Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2001 Posts: 115	Zot, with the figures from the Laser-cast reloading manual, the load would be traveling at over 1400 fps with a 9.5" barrel. Winchester doesn't specify the test barrel length, but their load is going 1180 fps. Your load is also below the starting charge listed in the manual. With H110, it is also not recommended to go below 3% of max charge. You have to remember that not all loads will work with a particular gun. The goal of reloading is to find the ideal load for your gun. You need to experiment with the load, vary the charge, vary the OAL, and even switch powders to find that ideal load.

March 5, 2001, 02:56 PM	#15
Contender Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1998 Location: NY Posts: 680	Cape Fear, From your post, what you are dealing with is improper bullet fit. With the heavier loads, you can get by because your bullets are obturating to seal the bore, thus no leading. With the lighter loads, you can't because the pressure won't obturate the bullet, the bore is not sealed, thus leading occurs. If your bullets were the correct fit from the start, you could use them with either high or low velocity/pressure loads and be satisfied with little to no leading. Contrary to myth, a gas check's job is NOT to protect the base of the bullet from hot powder gases. It's job is to be in effect, and increase in hardness of the base of the bullet. A harder "wrench" to engage the rifle and prevent bullet base obturation in heavy, high pressure loads from overcoming the film strength of the bullet lubricant. Zot, Cast bullets must fit the bore correctly to work and be accurate. Jacketed bullet "stock diameters" are a compromise that works due to the hardness of the jacket material. A cast bullet alloy in comparison is very soft. A cast bullet needs to fit the chamber properly for support and sealing the bore. If certain criteria aren't met, accuracy suffers. Regards