Pattern any good?

RAfiringline · June 28, 2015, 03:42 PM

The picture shows the pattern from a #8 trap load at 50 ft.
The paper is 2 ft square.
Is this pattern good, bad indifferent?

Thanks

BigJimP · June 28, 2015, 06:27 PM

It looks to me like you have an effective pattern of about 12" across / with a few more holes in it at 3 O'clock and at 9 -11 O'clock than I'd like to see in a shell / if the paper is 24" squar...( and I can't read the box but it looks like you had a 1 1/8 oz load of 8's...).....

50 Feet....so about 16 Yds....is where you shot from...

so it looks to me like you have a full choke...

There are a few flyers...but its not terrible...
---------------------
good bad or indifferent for what...??

Shooting a load of 8's at a clay target...you'll need to hit a clay target with about 3 pellets to break it...

If you want to shoot Trap singles...you stand 16 yds from the house / but you break the target at about 30-35 yds.../ and with even 1 oz of 8's ( not 1 1/8oz of 8's ) a Modified choke will give you a good solid pattern of about 30" across at that range...but this full choke might work for you on Trap Singles...

RAfiringline · June 28, 2015, 06:36 PM

>It looks to me like you have an effective pattern of about 12" across if the paper is 24" squar...( and I can't read the box but it looks like you had a 1 1/8 oz load of 8's...).....<

Yeh, it's some old trap ammo, "12AA8, 1 1/8 oz., 8 shot.

>50 Feet....so about 16 Yds....is where you shot from...

so it looks to me like you have a full choke...

There are a few flyers...but its not terrible...<

243winxb · June 28, 2015, 06:43 PM

One shot tells us very little. Pattering is done at 25 yds for Skeet and 40 yards for hunting/trap.

FITASC · June 28, 2015, 07:40 PM

What are you trying to accomplish?

RAfiringline · June 28, 2015, 10:04 PM

>What are you trying to accomplish?<

Just to determine if the barrel is in decent condition. The gun is over 100 years old, and I'm a rifle guy with little knowledge of what's good or bad in shotguns.

Bake · June 29, 2015, 01:33 AM

Basic shape of the pattern looks fine. Next time you go out take a piece of paper that's at least 3X3 feet, And put a large black dot in the middle of the paper and use it as a aiming point. As far as the range goes I will use the same 15 yards that you used this time. As a rifleman myself, let me remind you that your eye is the rear site. When you first pattern shotgun you are trying to determine where the pattern is in relationship to your front site. With an older shotgun like yours, I would expect that half pattern to be above the spot and that half pattern below the spot (50/50), and I would also hope half of the pattern to the left of the spot and have half of the pattern to the right of the spot. If this is the case, you can try moving back to 25 yards, and if it's still good try moving back to 35 to 40 yards.

darkgael · June 29, 2015, 06:59 AM

Fwiw....I enlarged the picture and tried counting the holes. Slow morning.
I came up with 329. If you shot a standard trap load of 1 1/8oz of #8 shot, that would make this a 70% pattern. Not sure my count is 100% accurate. With a full choke at 16 yards, I would expect better....closer to 90% (414)
The are, however, not a whole lot of fringe holes....so maybe someone else with better eyes (maybe the OP?) could count. And shoot a few more patterns.

FITASC · June 29, 2015, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Just to determine if the barrel is in decent condition. The gun is over 100 years old, and I'm a rifle guy with little knowledge of what's good or bad in shotguns.

It is a smoothbore barrel so unless it has pits and signs of corrosion, a pattern test doesn't say much in THAT regard; but it does appear to basically make a full pattern with that ammo.

pete2 · June 29, 2015, 09:11 AM

I'd suggest you try some loads with 7-1/2 shot, I found I got better (more uniform) patterns with 7-1/2 than 8s. Was a surprise to me. This was a 20 ga with 7/8 oz loads, decided to shoot 5 stand with the 7-1/2s. Shoot at 30 or 40 yds. if you can.

BigJimP · June 29, 2015, 11:37 AM

At this point....we're all pretty sure you have a gun with a Full Choke..../ so like Fitasc suggested....as long as the barrel is clean and no corrosion ...you should be fine.

If your question is more like what shell will give you the best overall pattern ...rather than an old box of shells...try a newer premium shell...like Remington STS...and see how it goes.

( I didn't count the holes...like darkgael did --- geez man )...but run a couple of premium 12ga ( 2 3/4" shells thru the gun at a 36" X 36" piece of paper ..) put a 3" dot - and aim at it ....and see what you get....

1 1/8 oz of 8's ( 460 pellets ) / of 7 1/2's is 388 / or 9's is 658
1 oz load of 8's is 409 pellets / of 7 1/2's is 345 / of 9's is 585

but if you're just trying to evaluate the condition of the barrel ...and figure out what the choke is, if the barrel isn't marked --- you've probably accomplished that already.

FITASC · June 29, 2015, 12:01 PM

Testing, as stated, will best determine how well your gun will perform. No matter what constriction a barrel has marked on it, it is how it performs with the ammo you intend to use. I have seen barrels marked with tight constrictions pattern more like open ones and vice versa. If it is up to the task you need it for, go enjoy it. One thing since you said the gun was over 100 years old (and I am surprised we all missed this earlier) is to have the chamber length verified by a gunsmith. Shorter chambers will accept modern 2-3/4" ammo, even if they are 2-1/2 or 2-9/16'. They will even fire a few times, but the crimp then opens into a short forcing cone section and the pressure can not be kind to older metallurgy.

June 28, 2015, 06:27 PM	#2
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	It looks to me like you have an effective pattern of about 12" across / with a few more holes in it at 3 O'clock and at 9 -11 O'clock than I'd like to see in a shell / if the paper is 24" squar...( and I can't read the box but it looks like you had a 1 1/8 oz load of 8's...)..... 50 Feet....so about 16 Yds....is where you shot from... so it looks to me like you have a full choke... There are a few flyers...but its not terrible... --------------------- good bad or indifferent for what...?? Shooting a load of 8's at a clay target...you'll need to hit a clay target with about 3 pellets to break it... If you want to shoot Trap singles...you stand 16 yds from the house / but you break the target at about 30-35 yds.../ and with even 1 oz of 8's ( not 1 1/8oz of 8's ) a Modified choke will give you a good solid pattern of about 30" across at that range...but this full choke might work for you on Trap Singles... Last edited by BigJimP; June 28, 2015 at 06:33 PM.

June 28, 2015, 07:40 PM	#5
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	What are you trying to accomplish? __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

June 29, 2015, 01:33 AM	#7
Bake Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2012 Location: San Joaquin Valley, Calif. Posts: 482	Basic shape of the pattern looks fine. Next time you go out take a piece of paper that's at least 3X3 feet, And put a large black dot in the middle of the paper and use it as a aiming point. As far as the range goes I will use the same 15 yards that you used this time. As a rifleman myself, let me remind you that your eye is the rear site. When you first pattern shotgun you are trying to determine where the pattern is in relationship to your front site. With an older shotgun like yours, I would expect that half pattern to be above the spot and that half pattern below the spot (50/50), and I would also hope half of the pattern to the left of the spot and have half of the pattern to the right of the spot. If this is the case, you can try moving back to 25 yards, and if it's still good try moving back to 35 to 40 yards. __________________ 1. The pattern board is your friend, use the Dam thing!!! 2. The maximum range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually measured in miles, and means nothing. 2a. The effective range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually (the ability of the shooter) measured in yards, and means everything. Last edited by Bake; June 29, 2015 at 01:53 AM.

June 29, 2015, 12:01 PM	#12
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Testing, as stated, will best determine how well your gun will perform. No matter what constriction a barrel has marked on it, it is how it performs with the ammo you intend to use. I have seen barrels marked with tight constrictions pattern more like open ones and vice versa. If it is up to the task you need it for, go enjoy it. One thing since you said the gun was over 100 years old (and I am surprised we all missed this earlier) is to have the chamber length verified by a gunsmith. Shorter chambers will accept modern 2-3/4" ammo, even if they are 2-1/2 or 2-9/16'. They will even fire a few times, but the crimp then opens into a short forcing cone section and the pressure can not be kind to older metallurgy. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

June 28, 2015, 06:36 PM	#3
RAfiringline Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2014 Location: western US Posts: 290	>It looks to me like you have an effective pattern of about 12" across if the paper is 24" squar...( and I can't read the box but it looks like you had a 1 1/8 oz load of 8's...).....< Yeh, it's some old trap ammo, "12AA8, 1 1/8 oz., 8 shot. >50 Feet....so about 16 Yds....is where you shot from... so it looks to me like you have a full choke... There are a few flyers...but its not terrible...<

June 28, 2015, 06:43 PM	#4
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	One shot tells us very little. Pattering is done at 25 yds for Skeet and 40 yards for hunting/trap.

June 28, 2015, 10:04 PM	#6
RAfiringline Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2014 Location: western US Posts: 290	>What are you trying to accomplish?< Just to determine if the barrel is in decent condition. The gun is over 100 years old, and I'm a rifle guy with little knowledge of what's good or bad in shotguns.

June 29, 2015, 06:59 AM	#8
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	hmm Fwiw....I enlarged the picture and tried counting the holes. Slow morning. I came up with 329. If you shot a standard trap load of 1 1/8oz of #8 shot, that would make this a 70% pattern. Not sure my count is 100% accurate. With a full choke at 16 yards, I would expect better....closer to 90% (414) The are, however, not a whole lot of fringe holes....so maybe someone else with better eyes (maybe the OP?) could count. And shoot a few more patterns. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

June 29, 2015, 09:11 AM	#10
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I'd suggest you try some loads with 7-1/2 shot, I found I got better (more uniform) patterns with 7-1/2 than 8s. Was a surprise to me. This was a 20 ga with 7/8 oz loads, decided to shoot 5 stand with the 7-1/2s. Shoot at 30 or 40 yds. if you can.

June 29, 2015, 11:37 AM	#11
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	At this point....we're all pretty sure you have a gun with a Full Choke..../ so like Fitasc suggested....as long as the barrel is clean and no corrosion ...you should be fine. If your question is more like what shell will give you the best overall pattern ...rather than an old box of shells...try a newer premium shell...like Remington STS...and see how it goes. ( I didn't count the holes...like darkgael did --- geez man )...but run a couple of premium 12ga ( 2 3/4" shells thru the gun at a 36" X 36" piece of paper ..) put a 3" dot - and aim at it ....and see what you get.... 1 1/8 oz of 8's ( 460 pellets ) / of 7 1/2's is 388 / or 9's is 658 1 oz load of 8's is 409 pellets / of 7 1/2's is 345 / of 9's is 585 but if you're just trying to evaluate the condition of the barrel ...and figure out what the choke is, if the barrel isn't marked --- you've probably accomplished that already.