Decapping Pins seems to be off-center?!?!?

jeo556 · October 23, 2008, 09:15 PM

Noob reloader here. I finally took the plunge and purchased the Rock Chucker reloading kit and RCBS dies. I have a quick question that I need some help with. The instructions that came with the dies stated that you should make sure that the decapping pin is centered in the die after adjustment. Well, the die looks like its not exactly centered. When holding it still it seems fine, but I noticed when I screw the die into the press and keep an eye on the decapping pin looks like its moving around. These dies are brand new and never used.....has anyone ran into this before or am I just worrying about nothing? Any help would be of great help for a new reloader. Thanks in advance.

DIXIEDOG · October 23, 2008, 09:18 PM

Have you tried using it to see if it is lined up with the flash hole in your casing. If you meet resistance just stop and you won't ruin the pin even if it is off center. Most likely it is centered and it just looks off center. RCBS products are very good and they generally work out of the box.

jeo556 · October 23, 2008, 09:21 PM

I almost tried that but my luck has been less than stellar lately so I thought I'd ask the experts before I go ahead and try something on my own. Thanks for the response.

W. C. Quantrill · October 23, 2008, 09:32 PM

Load it up and try it. As in all things, take it easy, if it dont go, dont force it. The decapper will find the hole, make sure you use good lube.

orionengnr · October 23, 2008, 09:42 PM

I don't own a Rock Chucker so take this for what it's worth...
However, the mechanics of any press is about the same. Try this:

Once the die is set to the correct height, loosen the lock nut on the decapper (so it acn "wobble"). Place a de-primed cartridge into the shell holder. Slowly stroke the handle until the decapping pin comes down (or the cartridge comes up, depending on your press) towards the hole, and "wobble" the pin by hand as required. Once the decapping pin is in the primer hole, tighten the lock nut to keep it there. Now test it again with the de-primed cartridge, then test (gently) with several primed cartridges.

I used this method with my Dillon 450 to index a new decapping pin after breaking one, and it's worked fine ever since. If/when I change calibers or otherwise disturb the decapping die, I will do this indexing again.

Al Norris · October 24, 2008, 12:06 AM

Jeo, check to see that your decapper is firmly screwed onto the stem. If it is, you can also disassemble it and physically check that the pin is in fact straight and not bent.

RGS · October 24, 2008, 07:12 AM

oriongnr has the right idea. I've done the same thing and had good results. When you get the decapping pin centered in the primer hole, adjust it down far enough to ensure the primer will clear the case head. This will ensure the thing falls off and doesn't re-seat itself or hang up on the case head and make it darn near impossible to remove the case from the shell holder.

Been there too.

jeo556 · October 24, 2008, 07:35 AM

Thanks for the responses guys, I appreciate it. Heres an update..... I did remove the decapping pin from the die "housing" so-to-speak. When I roll it on my benchtop it looks straight as an arrow. However, like I stated before, when I rotate the die in my hand, or look at the decapping pin as the die is threaded into the press, it seems to rotate. I would also mention that it seems to rotate a lot. With the decapping pin being straight, the only thing that could possibly cause this would be that the die housing was threaded off-center, which I hardly doubt. At this point I think that I'm gonna give it a try, moving slowly, to see what happens. Otherwise I may just take the dies back and get a new set....anyone know how RCBS is with thier customer service and replacement policy? Thanks again.

wncchester · October 24, 2008, 07:52 AM

"...the decapping pin looks like its moving around. These dies are brand new and never used.....has anyone ran into this before...?

We have all seen it, or at least those of us who have used old design decap/expander rod designs have seen it. (The "pin" is only the small part held to the bottom of the rod.)

Lee designed a better system which uses a collet to hold the rod and Hornady has copied it. The collets hold that rod much better centered without having to do contortions to get it straight.

All that said, try it before you swap it, it may work okay anyway.

jeo556 · October 24, 2008, 03:24 PM

Thanks for the help guys, I tried the die and it worked just fine. I did commit a noob mistake and forgot to lubricate the inside case neck.....I'm lucky nothing got stuck. Anyway, while I seem to have your attention does anyone know of a good resourse that may suggest substituting powders. For instance I have H4350 and a recipe calls for IMR4350, I looked up thier relative burn rates and they're very close so I think that I am good. I just don't know where to draw the line. Again, thanks so much for the help. I'll try and learn fast.

T. O'Heir · October 24, 2008, 11:31 PM

"...the decapping pin looks like its moving around..." Have you set the decapping rod up to just pop out the primer and locked it?
"...that may suggest substituting powders..." Got a manual? H4350 and IMR4350 are very close, but are not the same powder. The data is not interchangeable. For example, with a 90 grain .243 bullet, H4350 has a greater starting load than IMR4350 does. 42.0 vs 39.5. It gives a bit more velocity with a slightly higher pressure too. It's only 183 fps and 1700 CUP though. Mind you, H4350 gives a higher max velocity with a slightly lower max pressure. 89 fps difference with max loads. Not enough to be dangerous, but don't just swap data. Go to Hodgdon's site for proper IMR4350 data. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
"...anyone know how RCBS is with their customer service and replacement policy?..." They'll ask you one question when you call 'em. Your mailing address. RCBS' customer service is literally legendary. Have any problems and they'll fix it even if you caused it or you bought used kit. Guys on other forums have reported that they've replaced the electric motor for one of their tumblers with no fuss. Personally, long before there was such a thing as e-mail, I mailed them asking about where I could get decapping pins in Canada. They sent me a package and a list of RCBS dealers.
"...forgot to lubricate the inside case neck..." That's not the end of the world. Lube every 5th or so case mouth and you'll be fine. Not lubing the case body will cause you grief. Removing the rod and using a brass or aluminium rod of a suitable size with a plastic mallet will usually get a stuck case out.

totalloser · October 26, 2008, 08:21 PM

I have long been irked by RCBS decap assemblies. Enough that I converted my lube dies to take the Lee setup (precision drill/tap to 1/8" npt-pipe thread)

Having said that, centering the decap pin is finicky as it can lock in off center. If you roll it on the bench and it's straight, but wiggles when screwing it in, making little circles looking from the bottom, or side to side looking from the side, I would say the threads were machined crooked.

This is fairly easy to verify, as the die apparently had the previous machining operation concentric. That's why it rolls straight on the bench. Look at the outside of the threads. The outside edge of the threads has a very narrow flat spot spiraling up outside of the threads (where the threads contact the bench when you roll it). This flat should be the same width all the way up. If the threads have been cut crooked, you likely will be able to see this flat spot slightly wider on one side at the top, and possibly on the opposite side on the bottom. Mistakes DO happen.

jamaica · October 26, 2008, 11:09 PM

I have seen this. I believe the threads are just a bit loose, and if you just screw the stem in and tighten the lock, the piece is not necessarily centered. With the lock not tight, the stem wiggles around considerably on most dies.

orionengnr has it right. Run a brass up and get the pin through the hole then tighten the lock nut. Nothing to worry about.

October 23, 2008, 09:15 PM	#1
jeo556 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2007 Location: Southwestern, PA Posts: 268	Decapping Pins seems to be off-center?!?!? Noob reloader here. I finally took the plunge and purchased the Rock Chucker reloading kit and RCBS dies. I have a quick question that I need some help with. The instructions that came with the dies stated that you should make sure that the decapping pin is centered in the die after adjustment. Well, the die looks like its not exactly centered. When holding it still it seems fine, but I noticed when I screw the die into the press and keep an eye on the decapping pin looks like its moving around. These dies are brand new and never used.....has anyone ran into this before or am I just worrying about nothing? Any help would be of great help for a new reloader. Thanks in advance. __________________ Jeo556

October 23, 2008, 09:21 PM	#3
jeo556 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2007 Location: Southwestern, PA Posts: 268	I almost tried that but my luck has been less than stellar lately so I thought I'd ask the experts before I go ahead and try something on my own. Thanks for the response. __________________ Jeo556

October 23, 2008, 09:32 PM	#4
W. C. Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2008 Location: No Man's Land Posts: 354	Load it up and try it. As in all things, take it easy, if it dont go, dont force it. The decapper will find the hole, make sure you use good lube. __________________ NRA Life Whittington Center Life

October 24, 2008, 07:35 AM	#8
jeo556 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2007 Location: Southwestern, PA Posts: 268	Thanks for the responses guys, I appreciate it. Heres an update..... I did remove the decapping pin from the die "housing" so-to-speak. When I roll it on my benchtop it looks straight as an arrow. However, like I stated before, when I rotate the die in my hand, or look at the decapping pin as the die is threaded into the press, it seems to rotate. I would also mention that it seems to rotate a lot. With the decapping pin being straight, the only thing that could possibly cause this would be that the die housing was threaded off-center, which I hardly doubt. At this point I think that I'm gonna give it a try, moving slowly, to see what happens. Otherwise I may just take the dies back and get a new set....anyone know how RCBS is with thier customer service and replacement policy? Thanks again. __________________ Jeo556

October 24, 2008, 03:24 PM	#10
jeo556 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2007 Location: Southwestern, PA Posts: 268	Thanks for the help guys, I tried the die and it worked just fine. I did commit a noob mistake and forgot to lubricate the inside case neck.....I'm lucky nothing got stuck. Anyway, while I seem to have your attention does anyone know of a good resourse that may suggest substituting powders. For instance I have H4350 and a recipe calls for IMR4350, I looked up thier relative burn rates and they're very close so I think that I am good. I just don't know where to draw the line. Again, thanks so much for the help. I'll try and learn fast. __________________ Jeo556

October 23, 2008, 09:18 PM	#2
DIXIEDOG Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2007 Location: Maine Posts: 265	Have you tried using it to see if it is lined up with the flash hole in your casing. If you meet resistance just stop and you won't ruin the pin even if it is off center. Most likely it is centered and it just looks off center. RCBS products are very good and they generally work out of the box.

October 23, 2008, 09:42 PM	#5
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,177	I don't own a Rock Chucker so take this for what it's worth... However, the mechanics of any press is about the same. Try this: Once the die is set to the correct height, loosen the lock nut on the decapper (so it acn "wobble"). Place a de-primed cartridge into the shell holder. Slowly stroke the handle until the decapping pin comes down (or the cartridge comes up, depending on your press) towards the hole, and "wobble" the pin by hand as required. Once the decapping pin is in the primer hole, tighten the lock nut to keep it there. Now test it again with the de-primed cartridge, then test (gently) with several primed cartridges. I used this method with my Dillon 450 to index a new decapping pin after breaking one, and it's worked fine ever since. If/when I change calibers or otherwise disturb the decapping die, I will do this indexing again.

October 24, 2008, 12:06 AM	#6
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Jeo, check to see that your decapper is firmly screwed onto the stem. If it is, you can also disassemble it and physically check that the pin is in fact straight and not bent.

October 24, 2008, 07:12 AM	#7
RGS Member Join Date: June 17, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 78	oriongnr has the right idea. I've done the same thing and had good results. When you get the decapping pin centered in the primer hole, adjust it down far enough to ensure the primer will clear the case head. This will ensure the thing falls off and doesn't re-seat itself or hang up on the case head and make it darn near impossible to remove the case from the shell holder. Been there too.

October 24, 2008, 07:52 AM	#9
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"...the decapping pin looks like its moving around. These dies are brand new and never used.....has anyone ran into this before...? We have all seen it, or at least those of us who have used old design decap/expander rod designs have seen it. (The "pin" is only the small part held to the bottom of the rod.) Lee designed a better system which uses a collet to hold the rod and Hornady has copied it. The collets hold that rod much better centered without having to do contortions to get it straight. All that said, try it before you swap it, it may work okay anyway.

October 24, 2008, 11:31 PM	#11
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...the decapping pin looks like its moving around..." Have you set the decapping rod up to just pop out the primer and locked it? "...that may suggest substituting powders..." Got a manual? H4350 and IMR4350 are very close, but are not the same powder. The data is not interchangeable. For example, with a 90 grain .243 bullet, H4350 has a greater starting load than IMR4350 does. 42.0 vs 39.5. It gives a bit more velocity with a slightly higher pressure too. It's only 183 fps and 1700 CUP though. Mind you, H4350 gives a higher max velocity with a slightly lower max pressure. 89 fps difference with max loads. Not enough to be dangerous, but don't just swap data. Go to Hodgdon's site for proper IMR4350 data. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp "...anyone know how RCBS is with their customer service and replacement policy?..." They'll ask you one question when you call 'em. Your mailing address. RCBS' customer service is literally legendary. Have any problems and they'll fix it even if you caused it or you bought used kit. Guys on other forums have reported that they've replaced the electric motor for one of their tumblers with no fuss. Personally, long before there was such a thing as e-mail, I mailed them asking about where I could get decapping pins in Canada. They sent me a package and a list of RCBS dealers. "...forgot to lubricate the inside case neck..." That's not the end of the world. Lube every 5th or so case mouth and you'll be fine. Not lubing the case body will cause you grief. Removing the rod and using a brass or aluminium rod of a suitable size with a plastic mallet will usually get a stuck case out. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 26, 2008, 08:21 PM	#12
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	I have long been irked by RCBS decap assemblies. Enough that I converted my lube dies to take the Lee setup (precision drill/tap to 1/8" npt-pipe thread) Having said that, centering the decap pin is finicky as it can lock in off center. If you roll it on the bench and it's straight, but wiggles when screwing it in, making little circles looking from the bottom, or side to side looking from the side, I would say the threads were machined crooked. This is fairly easy to verify, as the die apparently had the previous machining operation concentric. That's why it rolls straight on the bench. Look at the outside of the threads. The outside edge of the threads has a very narrow flat spot spiraling up outside of the threads (where the threads contact the bench when you roll it). This flat should be the same width all the way up. If the threads have been cut crooked, you likely will be able to see this flat spot slightly wider on one side at the top, and possibly on the opposite side on the bottom. Mistakes DO happen.

October 26, 2008, 11:09 PM	#13
jamaica Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 705	I have seen this. I believe the threads are just a bit loose, and if you just screw the stem in and tighten the lock, the piece is not necessarily centered. With the lock not tight, the stem wiggles around considerably on most dies. orionengnr has it right. Run a brass up and get the pin through the hole then tighten the lock nut. Nothing to worry about.