Case Uneven Wall Thickness - Page 3

joneb · July 3, 2019, 12:55 AM

Quote:

One way to check case head squareness is to line the cases up with a straight edge

Thank you, nice tip

Bart B. · July 3, 2019, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal god

One way to check case head squareness is to line the cases up with a straight edge . Look down them to see if any are out of alignment .

With several cases lined up in a row standing on their heads, which ones have out of square heads as you look down the row?

Those appearing tilted:

a. left.
b. right.
c. towards you.
d. away from you.

F. Guffey · July 3, 2019, 09:05 AM

I can only guess there are tools that exist that reloaders are totally unfamiliar with. I have had cases that would not stand up because of bent rims caused by the ejector, and then there are cases with concaved case heads meaning the case head does not make 100% contact with the bolt face unless the bolt face is convexed.

And then there are straight edges, a straight edge is a tool that was suggested by L.E. Wilson when using the Wilson case gage. I am the only reloaders that went straight to the straight edge. And then immediately I decided I could accomplish the same precision with a flat surface and a feeler gage.

I know; it is not fair, this information was included in the box with the gage in the form of instructions.

F. Guffey

Metal god · July 3, 2019, 03:18 PM

Any direction is bad they either need to be perfectly lined up or they are all bad assuming they are from the same lot . If mixed unknown fired cases . There would be no real way to distinguish one from another by just lining them up .

That was a good question though . Do you have a way to tell which are square compared to others that may not ?

Bart B. · July 3, 2019, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal god

Do you have a way to tell which are square compared to others that may not ?

Yes.

Tape a metal V block as thick as the case rim to a flat surface.

Slide a full length sized decapped case head (without expander ball) into the block.

Gently spin the case in the V block observing the case mouth or neck edge through a magnifying glass. If it appears to spin evenly, the case head is square.

If the bolt face is not squared up, it goes out of square when fired.

**Unclenick** · July 3, 2019, 04:18 PM

If you own a Wilson case trimmer, you can also put the case into the shell holder and set it backward on the trimmer and run the half-inch trimmer cutter slowly in until it just starts to touch the head. If it touches evenly all around, the case head is square.

joneb · July 3, 2019, 08:14 PM

Quote:

If the bolt face is not squared up, it goes out of square when fired.

That's what I figure. When I find a pile of brass that I wish to reload I can assume it was fired from the same firearm. If I stand the cases a flat surface and rotate them with the bases touching it gives me a clue if the gun the fired them had a bolt square to the bore axis.
My fire forming load from a Howa 1500 usually straightens thing out, I've tried these fire formed cases neck sized vs full length sized and in my rifle it didn't make a whole lot of difference.
This Howa I have is a sporter for hunting so any load that shoots under 1" at a 100 yards is pretty dang good enough. though I have some long range loads with good brass that does much better.
I should add with this rifle I get three great consecutive shots and then the group opens up.

F. Guffey · July 4, 2019, 08:47 AM

Quote:

If I stand the cases a flat surface and rotate them with the bases touching

And if someone made a small turn table etc. etc.

And if you could find an old case trimmer from 60 years ago, that would be the one with the case holders for fired and sized cases it would be a matter of placing the case into the holder and then rotate the holder.

and if the reloaders was real handy they could use a dial indicator to measure run out.

A few months ago the only 'thing' that mattered was volume; it mattered not if the powder column was centered. wobbled, short and or long or large in diameter of small in diameter. And now? A small amount of consideration is given to the possibility indexing the case could have an effect on accuracy and consistency.

F. Guffey

Quote:

If I stand the cases a flat surface and rotate them with the bases touching

If you can rotated the case and keep the base centered, and then there is that part about the case touching; touching what?

Metal god · July 4, 2019, 10:44 AM

I also flipped the cases over to see if my trimmer was cutting square . Maybe not perfect but good enough I'd think .

Bart B. · July 4, 2019, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joneb

I should add with this rifle I get three great consecutive shots and then the group opens up.

Such is life when the barrel is fit to a receiver whose front is not faced square with the tenon thread axis. Or the barrel is not heat stress relieved. Worse with both. Typical of most commercial rifles identified by their accuracy claims of 3 shot groups because they know why more makes groups larger.

**Unclenick** · July 4, 2019, 11:01 AM

Isn't that the truth.

F. Guffey · July 4, 2019, 11:45 AM

Quote:

I should add with this rifle I get three great consecutive shots and then the group opens up.

That can happen when there is more metal on one side of the barrel than the other. It seems to have something to do with heat and mass. I found one barrel that 'curled' (slight curl) when it was heated.

I cut the barrel into short pieces; sure enough. I checked another barrel, I set it up in V-blocks and checked it with a dial indicator; the barrel appeared to be a magnificent barrel. And then I centered the barrel off of the bore and checked it again. The bore was centered between the breach and muzzle but caused the barrel to take on the appearance of having cams on each end when turned.

F. Guffey

Metal god · July 4, 2019, 12:13 PM

Never mind found the answer

Don Fischer · July 4, 2019, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal god

One way to check case head squareness is to line the cases up with a straight edge . Look down them to see if any are out of alignment .

Good

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Not so good

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Something is not right with my ability to post pics . Please let me know if you guys can access my Imageshack account and view all my photos when clicking on the images

Thanks
MG

Amazing! Your checking for case head squareness with your eye? I would think that if you could see the case lean, it would mean the out of square side, whatever you call it, would be straight across from the center of the lean. How in the world do you check something like that with your eye and say you can, how do you correct it? I would think this is a non problem for the most part. Weight a handful of case's and I suspect that none of them will weight the same. So either there's a difference in the metal or in the thickness of the case somewhere! Finding a cure for this seem's to me it will take all day and maybe all day for the next several decade's!

**Unclenick** · July 4, 2019, 05:13 PM

MG,

You are doing something funny when you are posting photos. It might be a copy and paste problem. Your first image in post #50 of this thread is put up with the following text string:

[IMG][URL=http://imageshack.com/f/ipTOMicij][IMG]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/673/TOMici.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/IMG]

Notice you've got both "http://" and "https://" and double sets of "[IMG] and [/IMG]" tag pairs and an unnecessary "[noparse]"[url] and [/url]" tag pair. All you need to display the image is:

[IMG]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/673/TOMici.jpg[/IMG]

(see how much shorter that is?) which, when I use it below, results in this:

The [IMG] and terminating [/IMG] tag pairs take the place of [URL=…] and [/URL] tags, which are only needed for posting a link for someone to follow.

The above method is a good check for case head squareness in a bolt gun or lever gun or single-shot action. Note that is may not tell the tale for self-loaders because self-loader extractors can bend a rim even if the bolt face is not out of square with the chamber and does not cause the bottom of the case head to be out of square during firing.

Metal god · July 4, 2019, 10:27 PM

Yes Imageshack was having problems at the time I tried post a few pics . It's the reason I asked the question about the photos at the end of that post # 50 . In that post you can click on the photo and it will take you to my imageshack page . That has never happened before . Its resolved now I think

How's this one and I went back and fixed the others except the recent quote of them , I can't do anything about those .

Don

This method only shows if a batch of cases is bad . Reason being is you can't or won't likely see any issue if you only use 3 or 4 cases . There's just not enough of a sample to show any out of alignment with so few . How ever if you put 10+ in a row the randomness of the placement will show if the whole batch is bad . With that many lined up If you see at least a few out of alignment that likely means they are all likely bad as seen in pic above ( 2 , 4 , 10 or 11 ) are all way out of whack compared to the rest 30 to 40% of the cases are out of alignment which means they are all likely out of alignment . My method is not to find just one or two in a 20ct line up . It's to see if the whole batch is bad . I do this because I buy in 250ct and 500ct lots .

joneb · July 4, 2019, 11:32 PM

Quote:

If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive !

That wasn't the plan.

Metal god · July 5, 2019, 07:16 PM

Quote:

That wasn't the plan.

Yeah , it's a play on words on multiple levels . It's why I like it .

F. Guffey · July 7, 2019, 10:01 AM

Quote:

That wasn't the plan.

joneb, thank you for your effort.

F. Guffey

July 3, 2019, 03:18 PM	#54
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	Any direction is bad they either need to be perfectly lined up or they are all bad assuming they are from the same lot . If mixed unknown fired cases . There would be no real way to distinguish one from another by just lining them up . That was a good question though . Do you have a way to tell which are square compared to others that may not ? __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

July 3, 2019, 04:18 PM	#56
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	If you own a Wilson case trimmer, you can also put the case into the shell holder and set it backward on the trimmer and run the half-inch trimmer cutter slowly in until it just starts to touch the head. If it touches evenly all around, the case head is square. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 4, 2019, 10:44 AM	#59
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	I also flipped the cases over to see if my trimmer was cutting square . Maybe not perfect but good enough I'd think . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

July 4, 2019, 11:01 AM	#61
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Isn't that the truth. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 4, 2019, 12:13 PM	#63
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	Never mind found the answer __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; July 4, 2019 at 12:19 PM.

July 3, 2019, 09:05 AM	#53
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I can only guess there are tools that exist that reloaders are totally unfamiliar with. I have had cases that would not stand up because of bent rims caused by the ejector, and then there are cases with concaved case heads meaning the case head does not make 100% contact with the bolt face unless the bolt face is convexed. And then there are straight edges, a straight edge is a tool that was suggested by L.E. Wilson when using the Wilson case gage. I am the only reloaders that went straight to the straight edge. And then immediately I decided I could accomplish the same precision with a flat surface and a feeler gage. I know; it is not fair, this information was included in the box with the gage in the form of instructions. F. Guffey

July 4, 2019, 05:13 PM	#65
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	MG, You are doing something funny when you are posting photos. It might be a copy and paste problem. Your first image in post #50 of this thread is put up with the following text string: [IMG][URL=http://imageshack.com/f/ipTOMicij][IMG]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/673/TOMici.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/IMG] Notice you've got both "http://" and "https://" and double sets of "[IMG] and [/IMG]" tag pairs and an unnecessary "[noparse]"[url] and [/url]" tag pair. All you need to display the image is: [IMG]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/673/TOMici.jpg[/IMG] (see how much shorter that is?) which, when I use it below, results in this: The [IMG] and terminating [/IMG] tag pairs take the place of [URL=…] and [/URL] tags, which are only needed for posting a link for someone to follow. The above method is a good check for case head squareness in a bolt gun or lever gun or single-shot action. Note that is may not tell the tale for self-loaders because self-loader extractors can bend a rim even if the bolt face is not out of square with the chamber and does not cause the bottom of the case head to be out of square during firing. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 4, 2019, 10:27 PM	#66
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	Yes Imageshack was having problems at the time I tried post a few pics . It's the reason I asked the question about the photos at the end of that post # 50 . In that post you can click on the photo and it will take you to my imageshack page . That has never happened before . Its resolved now I think How's this one and I went back and fixed the others except the recent quote of them , I can't do anything about those . Don This method only shows if a batch of cases is bad . Reason being is you can't or won't likely see any issue if you only use 3 or 4 cases . There's just not enough of a sample to show any out of alignment with so few . How ever if you put 10+ in a row the randomness of the placement will show if the whole batch is bad . With that many lined up If you see at least a few out of alignment that likely means they are all likely bad as seen in pic above ( 2 , 4 , 10 or 11 ) are all way out of whack compared to the rest 30 to 40% of the cases are out of alignment which means they are all likely out of alignment . My method is not to find just one or two in a 20ct line up . It's to see if the whole batch is bad . I do this because I buy in 250ct and 500ct lots . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; July 4, 2019 at 10:41 PM.