conversion to cartridges

charles-smythe · April 23, 2011, 09:40 PM

just for kicks I'd like to convert a cap & ball to cartridge...which is better to convert...36 or .44?...can anyone suggest an inexpensive 1860 to convert?...

Hawg · April 23, 2011, 10:01 PM

Pietta from Cabela's is as cheap as you're going to get.

Bishop Creek · April 23, 2011, 10:10 PM

Both are good to convert though I prefer the .44

Here are my Remington's, top Kirst .44 to .45
bottom R&D .36 to .38

charles-smythe · April 23, 2011, 10:13 PM

Is the conversion any more complicated than dropping in the new cylinders?...why .44 to .45?...why not .44-40 or .44 special?...

arcticap · April 23, 2011, 11:53 PM

.44 Special and .44-40 bullets would be too small in diameter.
AFAIK the .44 Remington caliber designation was determined by it's land to land diameter and not by it's groove to groove diameter like the later cartridge calibers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokin_Gun Post #5

Piettas have a .451" bore, .440" lands and something like .446" chambers ... use a lube pill or a wooly wads thay will work jus' fine.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347315

Hawg · April 23, 2011, 11:57 PM

The .36 requires either heeled or hollow based bullets.

Bishop Creek · April 24, 2011, 10:16 AM

You can fire regular non-heeled .38s if you line the barrel to .357:

The cap and ball replicas though called .44s are actually .45 caliber taking a .451 to .457 ball whereas a 44/40 is .429, too small for the barrel unless you use heeled bullets.

charles-smythe · April 24, 2011, 12:00 PM

is the only difference between a .36 and a .44 cap & ball pistol

the size of the hole in the barrel?...if so could a competent gunsmith safely re-drill a .36 caliber to the proper deminsions for a .44 and is a conversion .36 caliber cylinder long enough (and strong enough) to be reamed out to .44-40... don't know why but I just like shooting .44-40s and .44 specials...

Hawg · April 24, 2011, 12:18 PM

The .36 has a smaller cylinder. If you'll notice the 1860 Army has a rebated cylinder and a stepped frame. You can get a 44-40 or 44 spl cylinder for the 44's but you're back to using heeled or hollow based bullets.

hongrn · April 24, 2011, 12:23 PM

Great thread Charles. Just what I wanted to know next. Gents, do you all reload your cartridges? Is there a good thread on conversion and reloading of BP cartridges? Thanks.

Hong

Hawg · April 24, 2011, 12:44 PM

Why not just get a Richards Mason or Colt open top if you just have to have the .44 cartridges? Hong he better be into reloading if he wants to shoot 44-40 they're around 35.00 per 50. Reloading bp is easy. Just fill case to 1/16 from top with bp and seat bullet.

hongrn · April 24, 2011, 12:51 PM

Hawg,

Can you use Pyrodex or 777 instead of real BP? Thanks.

Hawg · April 24, 2011, 12:56 PM

I use Pyrodex in my 44-40's. I've never used 777 but from everything I hear it's real finicky. Maybe less so in a cartridge since you have more control on bullet depth. 777 does not like compression but it can't have an air space. Compress it and results are sporadic. 777 is stronger than real bp or Pyrodex by 20%.

Bishop Creek · April 24, 2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

...is the only difference between a .36 and a .44 cap & ball pistol the size of the hole in the barrel?...if so could a competent gunsmith safely re-drill a .36 caliber to the proper deminsions for a .44 and is a conversion .36 caliber cylinder long enough (and strong enough) to be reamed out to .44-40... don't know why but I just like shooting .44-40s and .44 specials...

Yes, the bore of the barrels are different sizes. All of the above is possible, but you are looking at nearly $1,500 if not more (not including the pistol) to have that done. "Re-drill" is called reboring the barrel. Cheaper to buy a Pietta .44 Colt or Remington from Cabelas and then purchase a .45 Colt conversion cylinder from either Kirst or Howells Gunshop (from Midway, etc.) and drop it in. Some cylinders may require minor fitting.

P.S. If you really want a .44 Colt (not .44 Special) cartridge conversion cylinder, here is one:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,5852.html

You will need to use heeled bullets with it.

charles-smythe · April 24, 2011, 06:20 PM

hey, Hawg Haggen...Why not just get a Richards Mason or Colt open top if you just have to have the .44 cartridges? Hong he better be into reloading if he wants to shoot 44-40 they're around 35.00 per 50. Reloading bp is easy. Just fill case to 1/16 from top with bp and seat bullet...can I interperet this to mean that the Richards or an open top Colt like an 1860 can be convered to .44-40 instead of .45?...

Hawg · April 24, 2011, 06:32 PM

My bad, I thought they came in 44-40 but they do come in .38 Spl, .44 Spl, .44 Russian, .44 Colt .45 Schofield and .45 Colt.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/cfOpenTop.tpl

Story · March 14, 2012, 03:06 PM

So who does conversion of Kirst cylinders to .44-40?

Willie Sutton · March 14, 2012, 06:12 PM

My opinion, based on experience with many conversions: Remington is *definately* the better frame for cartridge conversions, due to the easy to remove pin for the cylinder. I have had such good luck with mine that I ordered a second one exactly the same as the first. The Colt copies are just more difficult to disassemble, and more finicky. You can handload some pretty darned impressive .45 Long Colt stuff for a modern steel framed Remington copy with the conversion cylinders. Yes, they are placarded for Cowboy Action loads only, anything else is your experiment, but I've shot lots of standard defense-capable .45 stuff (smokeless loads) thru mine with no issues at all. My own leaning is towards newer Uberti products v/s the Piettas. Taylors sells the entire shootin-match and it's top notch stuff. Howells cylinders are 6 shot and have been perfect.

.45 is less troublesome to deal with. You're really gilding the lilly by even thinking about .44-40. Really.

Latest project here is a Walker Dragoon with thru-bored cartridge conversion cylinder and .460 S&W Brass, loaded with 50 grains of fffg powder. Shot 60 grains "just to see", and then backed off to 50 "just for fun". It's a fun sport.

Willie

.

Hawg · March 14, 2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

So who does conversion of Kirst cylinders to .44-40?

AFAIK nobody.

bedbugbilly · March 14, 2012, 06:46 PM

What are cartridges?

Beagle333 · March 14, 2012, 06:52 PM

Bedbugbilly:

Quote:

You mean they make something besides a '51 Navy??

Quote:

What are cartridges?

I'm starting to really like your way of thinkin', BBB.

landlord · March 14, 2012, 07:35 PM

Just a little confused You can shoot a 45 long colt, But does it have to be BP or off the self shell's??

rodent.22 · March 14, 2012, 07:47 PM

Nah I reload my Dragoon with Unique, low power loads. Very dependable shooter.

sandman_nv · March 14, 2012, 10:31 PM

I enjoy both cartridge and c&b.

That is why i love my Remmie. Can swap cylinders so quickly and easily!

Bishop: nice set of Remmies.

zullo74 · March 15, 2012, 02:16 PM

I enjoy both cartridge and c&b.

That is why I love my 1860 COLT. Can swap cylinders so quickly and easily!

April 23, 2011, 09:40 PM	#1
charles-smythe Member Join Date: April 23, 2011 Posts: 22	conversion to cartridges just for kicks I'd like to convert a cap & ball to cartridge...which is better to convert...36 or .44?...can anyone suggest an inexpensive 1860 to convert?...

April 24, 2011, 12:23 PM	#10
hongrn Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 91	Great thread Charles. Just what I wanted to know next. Gents, do you all reload your cartridges? Is there a good thread on conversion and reloading of BP cartridges? Thanks. Hong __________________ I love the smell of soot in the morning...

April 24, 2011, 12:51 PM	#12
hongrn Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 91	Hawg, Can you use Pyrodex or 777 instead of real BP? Thanks. __________________ I love the smell of soot in the morning...

March 14, 2012, 06:46 PM	#20
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	What are cartridges? __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

March 14, 2012, 07:47 PM	#23
rodent.22 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2010 Location: virginia woods Posts: 129	Nah I reload my Dragoon with Unique, low power loads. Very dependable shooter. __________________ NRA, VCDL, USAF 1970-76 6200FMS CLARK FIELD,P.I.'71-'72- 18 SOS, NKP, THAILAND '72, BASE FLIGHT,KEESLER AFB,MISS '72-'74, CARSWELL AFB,TX '74-'76 Last edited by rodent.22; December 2, 2014 at 12:51 PM.

April 23, 2011, 10:01 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Pietta from Cabela's is as cheap as you're going to get.

April 23, 2011, 10:10 PM	#3
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	Both are good to convert though I prefer the .44 Here are my Remington's, top Kirst .44 to .45 bottom R&D .36 to .38

April 23, 2011, 10:13 PM	#4
charles-smythe Member Join Date: April 23, 2011 Posts: 22	Is the conversion any more complicated than dropping in the new cylinders?...why .44 to .45?...why not .44-40 or .44 special?...

April 23, 2011, 11:57 PM	#6
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	The .36 requires either heeled or hollow based bullets.

April 24, 2011, 10:16 AM	#7
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	You can fire regular non-heeled .38s if you line the barrel to .357: The cap and ball replicas though called .44s are actually .45 caliber taking a .451 to .457 ball whereas a 44/40 is .429, too small for the barrel unless you use heeled bullets.

April 24, 2011, 12:00 PM	#8
charles-smythe Member Join Date: April 23, 2011 Posts: 22	is the only difference between a .36 and a .44 cap & ball pistol the size of the hole in the barrel?...if so could a competent gunsmith safely re-drill a .36 caliber to the proper deminsions for a .44 and is a conversion .36 caliber cylinder long enough (and strong enough) to be reamed out to .44-40... don't know why but I just like shooting .44-40s and .44 specials...

April 24, 2011, 12:18 PM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	The .36 has a smaller cylinder. If you'll notice the 1860 Army has a rebated cylinder and a stepped frame. You can get a 44-40 or 44 spl cylinder for the 44's but you're back to using heeled or hollow based bullets.

April 24, 2011, 12:44 PM	#11
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Why not just get a Richards Mason or Colt open top if you just have to have the .44 cartridges? Hong he better be into reloading if he wants to shoot 44-40 they're around 35.00 per 50. Reloading bp is easy. Just fill case to 1/16 from top with bp and seat bullet.

April 24, 2011, 12:56 PM	#13
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I use Pyrodex in my 44-40's. I've never used 777 but from everything I hear it's real finicky. Maybe less so in a cartridge since you have more control on bullet depth. 777 does not like compression but it can't have an air space. Compress it and results are sporadic. 777 is stronger than real bp or Pyrodex by 20%.

April 24, 2011, 06:20 PM	#15
charles-smythe Member Join Date: April 23, 2011 Posts: 22	hey, Hawg Haggen...Why not just get a Richards Mason or Colt open top if you just have to have the .44 cartridges? Hong he better be into reloading if he wants to shoot 44-40 they're around 35.00 per 50. Reloading bp is easy. Just fill case to 1/16 from top with bp and seat bullet...can I interperet this to mean that the Richards or an open top Colt like an 1860 can be convered to .44-40 instead of .45?...

April 24, 2011, 06:32 PM	#16
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	My bad, I thought they came in 44-40 but they do come in .38 Spl, .44 Spl, .44 Russian, .44 Colt .45 Schofield and .45 Colt. http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/cfOpenTop.tpl

March 14, 2012, 03:06 PM	#17
Story Junior Member Join Date: May 21, 2005 Posts: 13	So who does conversion of Kirst cylinders to .44-40?

March 14, 2012, 06:12 PM	#18
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	My opinion, based on experience with many conversions: Remington is definately the better frame for cartridge conversions, due to the easy to remove pin for the cylinder. I have had such good luck with mine that I ordered a second one exactly the same as the first. The Colt copies are just more difficult to disassemble, and more finicky. You can handload some pretty darned impressive .45 Long Colt stuff for a modern steel framed Remington copy with the conversion cylinders. Yes, they are placarded for Cowboy Action loads only, anything else is your experiment, but I've shot lots of standard defense-capable .45 stuff (smokeless loads) thru mine with no issues at all. My own leaning is towards newer Uberti products v/s the Piettas. Taylors sells the entire shootin-match and it's top notch stuff. Howells cylinders are 6 shot and have been perfect. .45 is less troublesome to deal with. You're really gilding the lilly by even thinking about .44-40. Really. Latest project here is a Walker Dragoon with thru-bored cartridge conversion cylinder and .460 S&W Brass, loaded with 50 grains of fffg powder. Shot 60 grains "just to see", and then backed off to 50 "just for fun". It's a fun sport. Willie .

March 14, 2012, 07:35 PM	#22
landlord Member Join Date: February 4, 2012 Posts: 71	Just a little confused You can shoot a 45 long colt, But does it have to be BP or off the self shell's??

March 14, 2012, 10:31 PM	#24
sandman_nv Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2012 Posts: 108	I enjoy both cartridge and c&b. That is why i love my Remmie. Can swap cylinders so quickly and easily! Bishop: nice set of Remmies.

March 15, 2012, 02:16 PM	#25
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	I enjoy both cartridge and c&b. That is why I love my 1860 COLT. Can swap cylinders so quickly and easily!