SHTF/PD/Hunting Sniper Rifle 6.5 Grendel or .308 in AR? - Page 2

tirod · October 19, 2011, 09:55 AM

Home Defense, SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, economic unrest, it's all an internet role player fantasy.

You want REAL disaster, then you better have shelter, water, food, and first aid. How do I know this? A local tornado in 2003, from there, two ice storms without power in winter for days, and another cyclonic windstorm, again, no power.

And then metro got hit with a EF5 dead center. Guns? Nope. RESCUE and FIRST AID were top priority. Heavy gloves, workboots, and Fixaflat the #1 demanded items the first week. While things were scarce in the impact zone, food and water were available within hours.

All the emphasis on "What gun?" will leave you completely unequipped to handle your own needs, and if your shelter is still standing, then STAY PUT if at all possible. Why walk away from a pantry of food and refrigerator of frozen stuff that likely needs to be eaten first?

Real SHTF in America is NO ELECTRICITY for two weeks. Be prepared for a way to get around that, and you're better off. You don't have to go camping to justify a propane grille, LED yard lights, and a heater.

I've spent plenty of evenings 6.6 miles from the center of a metro area, eating grilled steaks to the radiance of a solar recharged yard light listening to AM radio recount how others have shelters to go to. Me, I just turn in after a warm shower and hit the sack. No cots in gyms for me, thanks.

If you think a gun is your first priority in a disaster, you might be more of the problem, and less part of the solution.

REAL world down to earth conversations about disasters revolve around how to live in a third world environment, no grid, no power.

Dobe · October 19, 2011, 10:26 AM

While you are correct, and I couldn't agree more, this is gun forum, and that particular part of survival is what interest people on a gun forum.

Still, I do realize that first aid, communications, shelter, and food/water are more important than firearms. With that in mind and being a Louisiana resident, I can't help but remember Katrina.

precision_shooter · October 19, 2011, 10:32 AM

Dead Thread Walking....

.308

Tikirocker · October 19, 2011, 10:37 AM

Dead thread moon walking ...

Tiki.

tobnpr · October 19, 2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

While you are correct, and I couldn't agree more, this is gun forum, and that particular part of survival is what interest people on a gun forum.

I arrived in Kendall four days after hurricane Andrew. I'll say this...if I had lived there, and was staying to protect my home/belongings (or what was left of them), there would be NO WAY I would do so without being heavily armed.
Looting was rampant...and the most heavily hit areas were a ghost town, as most people had left. If you stayed behind, forget about calling for help...you were on your own.

Horny Toad · October 19, 2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tirod

Home Defense, SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, economic unrest, it's all an internet role player fantasy.

You want REAL disaster, then you better have shelter, water, food, and first aid. How do I know this? A local tornado in 2003, from there, two ice storms without power in winter for days, and another cyclonic windstorm, again, no power.

And then metro got hit with a EF5 dead center. Guns? Nope. RESCUE and FIRST AID were top priority. Heavy gloves, workboots, and Fixaflat the #1 demanded items the first week. While things were scarce in the impact zone, food and water were available within hours.

All the emphasis on "What gun?" will leave you completely unequipped to handle your own needs, and if your shelter is still standing, then STAY PUT if at all possible. Why walk away from a pantry of food and refrigerator of frozen stuff that likely needs to be eaten first?

Real SHTF in America is NO ELECTRICITY for two weeks. Be prepared for a way to get around that, and you're better off. You don't have to go camping to justify a propane grille, LED yard lights, and a heater.

I've spent plenty of evenings 6.6 miles from the center of a metro area, eating grilled steaks to the radiance of a solar recharged yard light listening to AM radio recount how others have shelters to go to. Me, I just turn in after a warm shower and hit the sack. No cots in gyms for me, thanks.

If you think a gun is your first priority in a disaster, you might be more of the problem, and less part of the solution.

REAL world down to earth conversations about disasters revolve around how to live in a third world environment, no grid, no power.

+1 http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/10.08/tshtf1.html

raceroch · October 19, 2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

"Ammo availability and effectiveness go to the .308, hands down. "

right on.

markj · October 19, 2011, 02:56 PM

A flame thrower would be neat.

SR420 · October 19, 2011, 03:09 PM

Vermonter · October 19, 2011, 06:44 PM

Well i brought up my recent 18 day survival situation. Seeing as we are on a gun thread I will say that an 18.5" pump 12 GA is probably the most versitile firearm for survival. Slugs for big game, Hd ammo for looters, and feild loads for small game. During our event my handguns along with one shotgun came with me in the truck. The other shotty stayed at home with the lady and the dog.

Now she knows why we have two.

Daekar · October 19, 2011, 07:05 PM

Wow, still open? Mods must be on holiday.

FWIW, my opinion is that none of those are ideal TEOTWAWKI or SHTF rounds. The .308 gets the nod by default because of ammo availability, but all of the rounds you listed are too big. If you're assuming that a 22lr is a given, then you should be looking at medium-power cartridges at most. 30-30, 7.62x39, 5.56x45, 357 Mag, those are more what you should be looking at in a "do-all" gun. I have both 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 covered. If you're in the city or suburbs, you're not going to be hunting with anything except a 22lr, and your self-defense distances are going to be short... so you want a Beretta Storm carbine or similar pistol caliber gun.

chadstrickland · October 19, 2011, 10:14 PM

and there i was thinking that the mods had eyes like the gate keeper on "thor" and no shtf thread would ever slip by them

and the op would feel the wrath of the "wet noodle"

i also picked 308 and something i thought was funny is that nobody picked the bottom two on the poll, for obvious reasons but that just goes to show you the people that are members here.

oh and even though it doesnt seem to be a race anymore this is my first time to say "in before the lock"

Thumper_1776 · October 20, 2011, 07:23 AM

ta-ha! First & foremost thanks to everyone for their 2 cents. For all the uber-preppers you are 175% right, but... I got that area coverd to last me at least 60 days & I have my concealed carry peace in .40 S&W (i know not a .45 but reasonable, sadly my G23 was more conceivable than my FNH 45 as my EDC, go figure...) which is good for scrounging in the event of the Zombpocalypse etc. cuz most LEO's in my area carry aforementioned caliber.

Got the 12 gauge covered as well the beaut of the Remington 887 with a moded col-stock & a few more bells n whistles for immediate pant-staining home invasion. Got the 5.56 covered as well just not enough umph for me but still my 2nd go to. The Beowulf & SOCOM were for giggles. No takers. You're good, you're all very good hehe.

.308 is badass indeed all around especially for the ammo availability; highly understood & acknowledged. However, the Grendel makes alot of since ballistics wise as far as interchangability with my current AR. Don't get me wrong I love the .308. In all honesty I will end up with both. A 6.5 upper with all the food for it to eat to switch out with my 12" 5.56 to keep as a back up & the .308 to get me jollies off. In all honesty I 'd like a Howitzer or a 40mm Gattling gun (an idear for ya Sons a Guns).

@ SR420 lovin that Rock Island EBR .308 been considering that as well as the Juggernaut for the .308 up against Desert Tactical or LWRDI REPR. And love & orgasm can't be said any better than belt fed!

@ tirod "Home Defense, SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, economic unrest, it's all an internet role player fantasy." May be true a degree but all to a degree are very viable & quite possible scenarios that every man should consider. And your right about the grid.

SCAR 17 & Flamethrower indeed. Screw it I'm building a damned Iron Man suit! buncha hippies! lol.

Thanks for yer input gents.I will consider it when I make my choice. Carry on & God bless.

okiewita40 · October 20, 2011, 07:34 AM

Stick with the .308 in whatever platform you prefer.

Skans · October 20, 2011, 07:54 AM

7.62x39.

Cheap. Easy to get. Effective short-range hunting round. I can carry a lots of it in spring loaded drums and stick magazines - not limited to 20 rounds like .308. No problem with steel cased 7.62x39

In the scenario the OP describes, what am I going to do with .308 that I can't really accomplish with 7.62x39? If I need more powerful 7.62 - I can hand load a few brass-cased hot cartridges and perhaps I'll install an adjustable gas block on my AK.

**Mike Irwin** · October 20, 2011, 08:02 AM

Not sure how this was missed, but as others have alluded, we don't do zombies, TEOTWAWKI, or SHTF threads at TFL.

Closed.

View Poll Results: Which would you choose for SHTF-all-arounf rifle?
6.5 Grendel	5	8.77%
.308	52	91.23%
.458 SOCOM	0	0%
.50 Beowulf	0	0%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

October 19, 2011, 10:26 AM	#27
Dobe Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2004 Posts: 1,348	While you are correct, and I couldn't agree more, this is gun forum, and that particular part of survival is what interest people on a gun forum. Still, I do realize that first aid, communications, shelter, and food/water are more important than firearms. With that in mind and being a Louisiana resident, I can't help but remember Katrina. __________________ What America needs is not a good 5 cent cigar. What America needs is a good source of cheap ammunition.

October 19, 2011, 10:32 AM	#28
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	Dead Thread Walking.... .308 __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

October 19, 2011, 10:37 AM	#29
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	Dead thread moon walking ... Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

October 19, 2011, 03:09 PM	#34
SR420 Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 3,336	__________________ The History and Development of the M14 EBR

October 19, 2011, 09:55 AM	#26
tirod Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1,672	Home Defense, SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, economic unrest, it's all an internet role player fantasy. You want REAL disaster, then you better have shelter, water, food, and first aid. How do I know this? A local tornado in 2003, from there, two ice storms without power in winter for days, and another cyclonic windstorm, again, no power. And then metro got hit with a EF5 dead center. Guns? Nope. RESCUE and FIRST AID were top priority. Heavy gloves, workboots, and Fixaflat the #1 demanded items the first week. While things were scarce in the impact zone, food and water were available within hours. All the emphasis on "What gun?" will leave you completely unequipped to handle your own needs, and if your shelter is still standing, then STAY PUT if at all possible. Why walk away from a pantry of food and refrigerator of frozen stuff that likely needs to be eaten first? Real SHTF in America is NO ELECTRICITY for two weeks. Be prepared for a way to get around that, and you're better off. You don't have to go camping to justify a propane grille, LED yard lights, and a heater. I've spent plenty of evenings 6.6 miles from the center of a metro area, eating grilled steaks to the radiance of a solar recharged yard light listening to AM radio recount how others have shelters to go to. Me, I just turn in after a warm shower and hit the sack. No cots in gyms for me, thanks. If you think a gun is your first priority in a disaster, you might be more of the problem, and less part of the solution. REAL world down to earth conversations about disasters revolve around how to live in a third world environment, no grid, no power.

October 19, 2011, 02:56 PM	#33
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	A flame thrower would be neat.

October 19, 2011, 06:44 PM	#35
Vermonter Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2010 Posts: 962	survival Well i brought up my recent 18 day survival situation. Seeing as we are on a gun thread I will say that an 18.5" pump 12 GA is probably the most versitile firearm for survival. Slugs for big game, Hd ammo for looters, and feild loads for small game. During our event my handguns along with one shotgun came with me in the truck. The other shotty stayed at home with the lady and the dog. Now she knows why we have two.

October 19, 2011, 07:05 PM	#36
Daekar Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Posts: 458	Wow, still open? Mods must be on holiday. FWIW, my opinion is that none of those are ideal TEOTWAWKI or SHTF rounds. The .308 gets the nod by default because of ammo availability, but all of the rounds you listed are too big. If you're assuming that a 22lr is a given, then you should be looking at medium-power cartridges at most. 30-30, 7.62x39, 5.56x45, 357 Mag, those are more what you should be looking at in a "do-all" gun. I have both 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 covered. If you're in the city or suburbs, you're not going to be hunting with anything except a 22lr, and your self-defense distances are going to be short... so you want a Beretta Storm carbine or similar pistol caliber gun.

October 19, 2011, 10:14 PM	#37
chadstrickland Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 537	hmmmm and there i was thinking that the mods had eyes like the gate keeper on "thor" and no shtf thread would ever slip by them and the op would feel the wrath of the "wet noodle" i also picked 308 and something i thought was funny is that nobody picked the bottom two on the poll, for obvious reasons but that just goes to show you the people that are members here. oh and even though it doesnt seem to be a race anymore this is my first time to say "in before the lock" __________________ Two weapons that was designed by the same man still in use by the us military 100 years later...1911 and m2...is there anything that comes close.....lol annd maybe perhaps a sig sauer p226 tac ops edition..

October 20, 2011, 07:23 AM	#38
Thumper_1776 Junior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Posts: 2	Okay, okay...OKAY!!! ta-ha! First & foremost thanks to everyone for their 2 cents. For all the uber-preppers you are 175% right, but... I got that area coverd to last me at least 60 days & I have my concealed carry peace in .40 S&W (i know not a .45 but reasonable, sadly my G23 was more conceivable than my FNH 45 as my EDC, go figure...) which is good for scrounging in the event of the Zombpocalypse etc. cuz most LEO's in my area carry aforementioned caliber. Got the 12 gauge covered as well the beaut of the Remington 887 with a moded col-stock & a few more bells n whistles for immediate pant-staining home invasion. Got the 5.56 covered as well just not enough umph for me but still my 2nd go to. The Beowulf & SOCOM were for giggles. No takers. You're good, you're all very good hehe. .308 is badass indeed all around especially for the ammo availability; highly understood & acknowledged. However, the Grendel makes alot of since ballistics wise as far as interchangability with my current AR. Don't get me wrong I love the .308. In all honesty I will end up with both. A 6.5 upper with all the food for it to eat to switch out with my 12" 5.56 to keep as a back up & the .308 to get me jollies off. In all honesty I 'd like a Howitzer or a 40mm Gattling gun (an idear for ya Sons a Guns). @ SR420 lovin that Rock Island EBR .308 been considering that as well as the Juggernaut for the .308 up against Desert Tactical or LWRDI REPR. And love & orgasm can't be said any better than belt fed! @ tirod "Home Defense, SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, economic unrest, it's all an internet role player fantasy." May be true a degree but all to a degree are very viable & quite possible scenarios that every man should consider. And your right about the grid. SCAR 17 & Flamethrower indeed. Screw it I'm building a damned Iron Man suit! buncha hippies! lol. Thanks for yer input gents.I will consider it when I make my choice. Carry on & God bless.

October 20, 2011, 07:34 AM	#39
okiewita40 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 409	Stick with the .308 in whatever platform you prefer. __________________ What on god's green earth do you think your doing?

October 20, 2011, 07:54 AM	#40
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	7.62x39. Cheap. Easy to get. Effective short-range hunting round. I can carry a lots of it in spring loaded drums and stick magazines - not limited to 20 rounds like .308. No problem with steel cased 7.62x39 In the scenario the OP describes, what am I going to do with .308 that I can't really accomplish with 7.62x39? If I need more powerful 7.62 - I can hand load a few brass-cased hot cartridges and perhaps I'll install an adjustable gas block on my AK.

October 20, 2011, 08:02 AM	#41
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Not sure how this was missed, but as others have alluded, we don't do zombies, TEOTWAWKI, or SHTF threads at TFL. Closed. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.