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Old November 12, 2018, 04:33 PM   #1
Rachen
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Predatory Violence: How prepared are you in a close-quarter confrontation?

Like Marc McYoung had stated in his article "Territorial vs. Predatory Violence", posted on the No-Nonsense Self Defense site, a classic case of predatorial violence involves an attacker "closing in", making sure that there is as little space as possible between him and the intended victim, thus greatly limiting the victim's chance to get away or mount an effective counterattack. Most rapes and murders or attempted murder committed with contact weapons seem to be of this nature. So are gang attacks. What do they all have in common? They involve you as the unwitting participant and the more pinned down you are and the less you are able to move around, the better for the assailants.

Now the drills that are taught in classic defensive handgun combat, as in drawing from various positions, weapon retention to avoid the gun being seized by the assailant, and most importantly, firing for effect, all involve a sequence of events much like the proper procedures for pulling out of a parking space. Signal, check left mirror, check over shoulder, pull into traffic when coast is clear. In a competitive environment like a IDPA match, such procedures can be drilled into perfect execution. For one reason: It is still a controlled environment where everyone is in a perfectly regulated setting. NOW, try to execute the same clockwork procedures when someone much stronger and faster than you is right on top of you, landing punch after punch into your face with the intent to seriously injure and kill.

In such a situation, the best course of defensive preparation is to act instinctively. Which is easier said than done. FAR easier said than done. When your trusty .45ACP carry pistol loaded with Critical Duty ammo is still tucked deep in your jacket, and you are unable to draw it because the assailant has you in a complete bear hug, that pistol is useless. And until you can get to it, pull it out, and drive a 250 grain polymer tipped slug into the assailant's CNS and put him down and out of the fight, you are pretty much dead meat. It doesn't matter what kind of fancy and powerful weapons are available for personal defense. Good old fashioned CQB is not going away and should not be going away. In a contact range fight, you might not be able to deploy certain weapons especially if they are kept at places which are difficult to access, but you have one key advantage: The opponent is RIGHT THERE in front of you, all within contact. The key is to inflict as much BIOMECHANICAL DAMAGE on him as possible so two things can happen: ONE: The injuries from CQB techniques that you have inflicted on him becomes so severe that he succumbs from them alone, as would be definitely possible if you have an easily-deployed knife in your hand, or TWO: The pain forces him to back off temporarily, thus allowing you to deploy a handgun or much larger knife and finish the fight. In police work, this is often a commonly encountered situation, as police officers are required, by the nature of their job to "close in" on individuals such as raging drunks, emotionally disturbed people who are unarmed, etc... and restrain them and take them into custody. However in this process, other unintended and unforeseen consequences can result. What if there was a battle for the officer's service weapon? Often times a service weapon gets seized by the wrong hands are is used against the officer. And that has happened many, many times in law enforcement, to the point that retention holster are now required as part of a LEO's kit.

For a normal civilian, when a situation has grown into full-blown CQB, with life or death on the balance, a whole new perspective of combat is now in order. You are not fighting anymore to subdue, or restrain, or take into custody. You are fighting because if you don't, that guy is going to kill you. And most unfortunately, there is only one person who is going to come out of this alive: You or him. If you are the master of some exotic and mystical, highly lethal martial art that specializes in unarmed combat, that is great kudos for you. But for most others, the only way to seize an advantage over a far more aggressive assailant in a CQB situation would be with a weapon. Most often a contact weapon such as a knife. Even a handgun can be used as a very effective blunt impact tool and many articles had been written on how to fight hand to hand using a pistol to multiply the force of your punch. A weapon that is meant for CQB should be able to be deployed in an instant's notice. A tactical folding knife, placed in a side pant pocket where it is easily reached even if you are tackled and pinned to the ground, can be used to inflict devastating wounds on an assailant at contact range and in a grapple. There is a reason why military martial arts programs all involve the use of fighting knives and bayonets. These things are not going away anytime soon.

And that comes to the main idea of this post: A CQB weapon is only a CQB weapon if it can be accessed IMMEDIATELY. Tactical folding knives can be carried on belt clips and rather shallow pant pockets, allowing access by free arm at the sides of the body. During the Urumqi ethnic riots of 2009, a passenger inside a car that was being besieged by a sudden flash mob of Islamic terrorists managed to survive by using an assisted opener to his advantage. After the driver was dragged out and killed by the rioters, two of them went into the car in an attempt to do the same to the passenger. How did the passenger survive? He made himself as small a target as possible, cowering down in the space right under the car seats. This forced the attacker(s) to have to reach their arms out to get their hands on him. And when one of them did, he grabbed the terrorist's hand, and with his other hand, opened a fighting knife and drove it repeatedly into his armpit. As Terrorist Number 1 bled out, the passenger slammed the knife into Number 2's chest and neck, also inflicting fatal wounds. Somehow, the passenger managed to crawl into the driver's seat, fighting all the way, and gunned the accelerator, sending the car forward and crushing several more rioters. Blinded by blood on his face, the man drove until he crashed into the side of a building, and then staggered out of the vehicle and hunkered down under an overturned vendor stand. People's Liberation Army soldiers found him several hours later and brought him to a hospital. What is the lesson learned here? When you make yourself as small as possible, you force an attacker to OPEN UP his vulnerable spots as he now must work harder and reach farther to get to you. Unprotected vital organs, arteries and veins does not last very long in an counterattack involving a knife. Finding a narrow hiding space but with enough width to maneuver around, like an open closet does that pretty remarkably. That has been taught in a number of Chinese and Filipino knife-defense courses.

The above is just ONE of many incidents in a riot which pretty much burned a city down. The place where this man was picked up? Right up a street from where my own cousin had his bookstore and was covering the entrance and the 100+ people who were taking shelter inside with a hunting bow. Four dead terrorists were found just outside the front gate with complete pass-through wound channels from broadhead arrows. Teaching that kid how to shoot paid off pretty good, seems like. Now, analyzing the nature and scope of these events, it boils down to this: You can train a lifetime to prepare yourself for situations like these, but training can only get you so far. The other part of the equation is do you have "it"? That is what Marc McYoung refers to as the sheer primal instinct to survive. And to survive means that you have to carve the other guy up into mincemeat. A lot of college studs that morning with nothing except textbooks and iPods in their bags did not even have time to react when the first rioters started hacking at people with machetes, near the campus of Urumqi Technical and Engineering. Surveillance videos showed some people who might have had time to run or fight simply stood there and let themselves get carved up. Can't really blame them because for an untrained person the body has a tendency to "freeze up" when facing situations like this. Tunnel vision takes over. Many videos showing flash-mob style gang assaults prove this.

So by mentioning "training to fight", we are not really training on fighting techniques or fighting styles, but the majority of the training seems to be psychological preparation, to FORCE the mind to unfreeze and act. Bottom line is , you are actually training to overcome one of the useless defense mechanisms the body has inherited from evolution, and instead, conditioning yourself to start moving and reacting fast when the turds start hitting the fan. Because when the riot and burning spread to other parts of the city by noon, there were plenty of accounts of how people who were unwittingly tangled into the storm survived: Some stabbed their would-be killers. Others shot them, bludgeoned them to death or ran them over with vehicles. By the time the regional PLA combat division and armed police (WUJING) secured the scene up to 40 rioters were dead. (CCTV 13 Coverage of riots) Of these around half were killed by responding authorities. Small numbers in a much larger arena where over 200 innocent people were butchered but enough to study the nature of CQB combat and how to increase your chances of survival in such an event.

The nature of a predatory attack is unpredictable and the only effective countermeasure is to react quickly and instinctively, and preferably with a tool that can multiply and concentrate the force of a blow. Now instead of just punching the assailant in the face while trying to dislodge his weight off from above you, you are punching him with a knife in your hand. And I think even a drugged up psycho would notice the effects rather quickly. After all, a catastrophic drop in blood pressure due to blood loss doesn't just buff out with a couple of Band-Aids. It is one thing to be proficient at defensive pistol techniques at traditional confrontation distances. It is a whole new playing field when you are boxed in, with the body weight of the perpetrator doing to boxing in. Just because you live in a safe neighborhood, in a "democratic" country does not mean that incidents like these will not happen. Violent crimes involving kidnapping, control and bodily harm often falls into this category of violence. And when certain political atmospheres cause people to gang up and take out their frustrations on other people who they believe are inferior to their ideologies, a whole new game of poker has now been started.

Sources taken from:
Marc McYoung main hub:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/
On the nature of Territorial vs. Predatory Violence: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com...teurknifer.htm
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Old November 12, 2018, 04:50 PM   #2
FireForged
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Would you care to separate what commentary is authored by you and which is authored by someone else. Do you have a comment or discussion point? This simply looks like excepts from a book.
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Old November 12, 2018, 06:35 PM   #3
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Good read regardless of the source.
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Old November 12, 2018, 06:53 PM   #4
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Well, not carrying a single action pistol from the 19th Century does make deploying a pistol a bit easier, imo.

In all seriousness these are good points. Some of these situations that you describe though are pretty extreme and pretty dire. You need a good deal of hand to hand training to punch your way out of them. Also, this is a firearms forum. While I think it's absolutely useful and important to discuss hand to hand combat, I think there is a pretty understandable slant to this forum. I think the key is to have some training that combines both, and that can be tricky to find as it often requires facilities and equipment, say SIMS or UTM and a place to use them, to really see it in action. A lot can also be done with blue gun training mixed in during a day along with shooting, but not all instructors do this or are comfortable with this. This applies to both firearms and martial arts instructors.

I also don't know if I agree that the weapon retention techniques and shooting positions that have been developed are great for IDPA but limited in other usefulness. Many of the people that developed those techniques did so after surviving encounters similar to what you describe. Certainly there are limits, but the notion that some of this only works in controlled environments is to me untrue. Obviously it makes things much more difficult, but in much of what is described above it is going to be difficult any way you approach it.

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Old November 12, 2018, 07:02 PM   #5
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Paragraphs are your friend

Good read, but rather difficult. Thanks.
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Old November 12, 2018, 07:50 PM   #6
Rachen
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Well you can be sure son, if I was living in an area where there is an extremely high amount of violent activity where constant carry in an urban environment is a necessity, I would definitely be investing in a compact, striker-fired DA semi-auto with great emphasis on being able to draw it quickly if need be, that is, with the appropriate holsters and etc...

I mainly carry the Remington on camping and hiking trips. My GF loves nature and outdoor scenery and she would always smile and chide me when I pack the old warhorse along "aw come on, we are just going to see flowers and birds, why are you always carrying that gun?" My response: "because I am not going to let anything or anyone hurt you, remember the promise I made?" She did not like guns when we first met but now she doesn't mind them. Would never touch one but won't care that her crazy guy carries em' lol

But the '58 makes a hell of a great house and vehicle gun though. .45 Long Colt with 250 grain flatpoints over a full case of Goex Olde Eynsford FFFg. Clocking 1300 feet/sec makes for a lot of stopping power. I ain't scared of any lions, tigers or bears when I am in the woods with that thing. Heck, many a hog has been sent to the cooking pot with these loads. I can draw and fire it relatively quickly. Not as fast as Arvo Ojala of course, but confidently fast enough to be able to resolve many defensive situations. I use a shoulder holster in colder weather, or I simply tuck it into a haversack. Easy to load and unload the spent brass too I machined a loading channel into the recoil shield when I installed the converter.

The scenarios I put in my post is indeed extreme but that is the nature of predatory crimes. Hence why they require the use of CCW weapons. We carry them to protect ourselves and our loved ones from dirtbags in society who have no qualms about raping or killing people. In New York City right now the Karina Vetrano murder case is on trial. She was a jogger who, two years ago was brutally strangled, raped and murdered in a Queens park. Evidence collected and presented now showed that she had fought for her life for 45 MINUTES while Chanel Lewis punched, kicked, beat and choked her slowly to death. Absolutely one of the most gruesome cases in recent history. The punk had the audacity to turn his head in the court and try to look at the family of the poor girl he brutalized and then give the excuse that "he was angry that morning, that's why he attacked and killed a random stranger". Truthfully, I have the greatest respect for the Police Detectives who have to interrogate and interview criminals like that. They are truly remarkable people who have to keep their emotions under control and remain professional while they talk to some of the most vile and putrid scumbags out there so they can solve the crime and bring closure to the victims' families.

RE: Ricklin: I sorted some of the longer blocks into separate paragraphs now so they are not that hard on the eyes.
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Old November 13, 2018, 08:09 AM   #7
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I didn't mean any offense dad (the winky face was meant to convey a joke, but apparently that failed). Still, I don't live in an area where there is an "extremely high amount of violent activity in an urban situation" and I carry a pistol similar to what you describe (and certainly some very violent attacks have occurred in places where people afterwards are shocked that such a thing would happen there). If I lived in such an area hopefully I could move, but given that many of the situations you described are in fact extremely violent it doesn't seem out of the realm of reason to point out that equipment does play some role. I don't doubt the ballistics of 45LC, but the world has moved on and not completely without reason. That said it's your choice, and I simply meant it as a bit of gentle ribbing in what seemed a bit of an unusual situation to me where a man was discussing such violent situations while at the same time carrying what would be considered by most an antique handgun. It just seemed at odds with the message.

What I questioned was the presentation of extreme situations and the assertions that these situations are likely too extreme to use firearms. No one ever said defending your life would be easy, though I would argue the average self defense shooting is not what was presented above. Still, if the argument is about those extreme situations I stand behind what I said above in that these techniques that exist today aren't just good for IDPA work on the range. They were developed by people that survived similar such situations. Will the application of those techniques be a lot harder when someone is trying to beat you to death? Yes, I hope most are aware of this. It will also be pretty hard to fight your way out of it hand to hand. You apply whatever training and will you have to survive.

As I've said multiple times, hand to hand skills, edged weapon training, none of these are things I disregard. If you have access to such training by all means get it and pursue it with the same amount of vigor as firearms training. If the message of this post is that violent criminals are violent and that this violence will often be in close proximity, I think that's worth emphasizing. If my interpretation is wrong I apologize, as it's a lot of text and pulling out the meaning or discussion point wasn't easy for me.

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Old November 13, 2018, 11:40 AM   #8
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It's cool it's cool man No offense meant by any of my statements and I certainly did not take any offense to yours. I just wanted to offer a more in-depth explanation to why I carry a single action revolver and it has more to do with woodland/wilderness preparation than in an urban or pure tactical environment. Although a good portion of the reason is that since I was very young I had worked with single action, large caliber revolvers that fired straight-wall cases and so I am mighty comfortable in their use and maintenance.

And I love the versatility of these types of guns too. When I am at the range punching holes in cardboard baddies I don't need more than 18 grains of black powder and sometimes even a budget lead roundball with slight crimping of the cartridge is more than enough for a whole afternoon of fun. For wilderness carry, some urban carry or just in case some nutjob breaks in, I got a box of rounds loaded to full power with heavy flat-point slugs. I played around with smokeless powder in the past but I love using black powder since the data and experience I have on it is solid and straightforward.

There are different tools for different jobs and I know many folk and have many friends who are only comfortable with carrying the best tactical raceguns. I got others who still live in the high country like they was old time fur trappers. Flintlocks and all
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Old November 16, 2018, 12:02 AM   #9
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I feel that I am fairly well prepared. situational awareness is the key to being prepared. I keep my pistol in a safe and easy to reach position and my general distaste for being close to anyone makes it pretty unlikely that someone will be able to sneak an attack on me. I know where every person in the area is, and what they are doing, unless I am in such a crowd that I can't possibly track all of the faces and hands. when I go into any public place, my eyes are always roving and my hands are always ready to do anything that I may need to do. I believe that unless it is a blind sucker punch from behind by an attacker who literally snuck up on me in stealth, I will be at an equal footing.

You can stand in line at an atm and ignore the lines, and maybe be fine, but even there you may be jumped. In a store with only a dozen people there, anyone can keep close tabs on the people around and determine rather easily who among them are wrapped up in whether the price of the cheese is too high or what size shoes they wear.

Carrying a weapon is only useful if you are aware enough to know when it has to be used, and that depends only upon yourself and the people around you.

When a guy ran into a C store a few years ago, I was alone with a clerk. he went straight to a rack of sun dresses and started feeling them. It made me wonder, who goes into a store and looks around, then goes straight to something that is rather incongruous?

The usual thing that you should be thinking is that he isn't there to buy a drink, he is either there to buy a dress, or he is stalling. why is he stalling? we don't know, but it is an absolute necessity to understand whether or not he is stalling for some reason and what that reason may be.

It was a remote store in a low part of town. I waited outside with my phone until he walked back out empty handed. I didn't ever determine why he went into a store and felt the fabric of a ten dollar dress. In any case, I had been aware and could have done whatever was necessary, and may have survived. I don't know what else I could have done. No amount of equipment or training will save your life if you don't care enough to proactively look for threats.

Think of the aegis missile system. That computer can track hundreds of objects at one time and act upon them with almost complete autonomy when the algorithms in the programming recognize danger. When one of the blips comes shipbound at a few hundred mph it will send a signal to the human component suggesting that the button be pushed.

We aren't computers. But the finger on the button makes the decision. The guy at the controls allows the system to track all of the chaff, and when the computer signals a possible threat, he takes over the observation and decision process. Where the computer might suggest firing on a jet ski, we have the benefit of knowing that it's just a jet ski with a blond, not a drone craft crammed with explosives. So, we must allow ourselves to observe like the computer and then act on it like a human when our "spider sense" is triggered, and use all of our faculties to act on the information that we have casually observed.

I'm tired. If this isn't entirely clear, it's because I'm tired.
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