The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights > Legal and Political

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 18, 2005, 11:57 AM   #1
perdurabo
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2004
Posts: 19
CNN jumps on the 50-ban bandwagon

I was watching "CNN live today" this morning and they did a segment on the .50 bmg. The "reporter" went to GunsAmerica and found a non-FFL to sell him a rifle, then flew out to TX to buy it cash&carry. They finished up the segment showing how the rifle can shoot through an airplane escape hatch and a steel plate.
perdurabo is offline  
Old February 18, 2005, 09:40 PM   #2
Sir William
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2004
Posts: 3,261
Yes, I saw that. The only memorable part was in the interview with Mr. Barret. The reporter asked if he felt there should be regulations on his rifles. The reply? "I feel there should be regulations of criminals." I liked that.
Sir William is offline  
Old February 19, 2005, 01:51 PM   #3
bergwerk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2004
Posts: 142
Nah, just reporters in the act of manufacturing the news that they are supposed to be reporting. Must've been a slow day.
bergwerk is offline  
Old February 19, 2005, 03:52 PM   #4
USP45usp
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2000
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,427
You know, with all the talk about people getting jobs and more jobs are needed it amazes me that the liberals, bleeding hearts, and gun banners wish to put entire companies (and their employees) out of work.

I think that if any bans, especially at federal level, go through then Mr. Barret and any other .50 manufacturer should just refuse to sell to the states and to the feds.
USP45usp is offline  
Old February 19, 2005, 05:28 PM   #5
sleeping dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2000
Location: MI
Posts: 536
Is that a legal purchase that the reporter made? He flew to Texas and bought it from someone?

I thought that if I purchase a rifle outside my home state, the purchase has to go through an FFL (in either state).

If I fly to texas, buy a rifle from someone without using an FFL, and bring it back home, I think that's illegal.

Anyone know the legality of it?
sleeping dog is offline  
Old February 19, 2005, 06:09 PM   #6
Monkeyleg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2000
Posts: 4,625
Sleeping dog, I thought it was illegal. I called the owner of a shop in Houston to ask about it, and he said it was legal. I called the owner of a shop here in WI, and he said it was illegal.

Here's a link to US Code, Title 18. Maybe somebody else can make sense of it. It's been a long time since this was an issue for me. http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/usc...2----000-.html
Monkeyleg is offline  
Old February 19, 2005, 06:25 PM   #7
USP45usp
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2000
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,427
To help.

Long guns can be purchased in another state even if you are not a resident of that state. A handgun, on the other hand, must be sent to a FFL of your resident state and then the NICS is checked again, the form is filled out (for the second time), and you pay for the fees.

Unless the law has recently changed, buying a long arm is still legal to buy without it being shipped (I believe it falls under the same law which states that you can mail via the post office a long gun but not a handgun).

IIRC, this was set up so that anyone going to another state could purchase and use the long gun for "sporting purposes" such as hunting.

So, if it was not illegal via state regulations or statues then yes, it was legal for the "reporter" to do so. It was a private sell between people that live in a country where private sales of legal products used to be the norm.
USP45usp is offline  
Old February 19, 2005, 07:00 PM   #8
FirstFreedom
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A.
Posts: 12,451
Quote:
Is that a legal purchase that the reporter made? He flew to Texas and bought it from someone?

I thought that if I purchase a rifle outside my home state, the purchase has to go through an FFL (in either state).

If I fly to texas, buy a rifle from someone without using an FFL, and bring it back home, I think that's illegal
Absolutely right. It is illegal to buy a gun in one state with the intention of carrying it to another state, and I believe an additional violation to actually carry it to another state. Both this reporter and the CEO of the news organization should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (if true), and face hard jail time.

So what have they proven? That if you perform an act that is already illegal, some harm could possibly follow - didn't we already know that?

Edited: Oops, or I dunno, perhaps I should defer to USP - his understanding is directly contrary to mine - anyone know for sure?
FirstFreedom is offline  
Old February 19, 2005, 07:36 PM   #9
USP45usp
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2000
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,427
Okay, by the book that ATF sent to me:

(that funny symbol like two dollor signs intermergered) 178.29: Out of state acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees;

paragraph b: Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a rifle or shotgun obtained from a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector in a State other than the transferee's State of residence in an over-the-counter transaction at the licensess's premises obtained in comformity with the provisions of (funny sign again) 178.96(c).

Wayne

*dang that was hard to type, didn't sound or feel right . Oh, page 50 of the ATF regulations book that they send out with FFL's.

Last edited by USP45usp; February 19, 2005 at 07:37 PM. Reason: to add
USP45usp is offline  
Old February 19, 2005, 09:58 PM   #10
tyme
Staff
 
Join Date: October 13, 2001
Posts: 3,357
Quote:
Absolutely right. It is illegal to buy a gun in one state with the intention of carrying it to another state, and I believe an additional violation to actually carry it to another state. Both this reporter and the CEO of the news organization should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (if true), and face hard jail time.
I remember quite a while ago arguing elsewhere that if Mrs. Brady had broken the law when she bought the rifle for her son, she should not be prosecuted. But I think I've reformed (or simply gotten meaner). I hope all such idiots are prosecuted, including this journalist. I hope he gets fired. I hope he can't find work anywhere else.

At the same time, I hope RKBA supporters are NOT prosecuted for those same crimes. I realize that's unfair, but I believe that unfairness is better than the injustice of prosecuting everyone without discrimination. RKBA antagonists have a karmic debt, and one way to pay that off is by being prosecuted. Of course, I hope the idiotic laws and their enforcers in the BATFE, FBI, DOJ and Customs all disappear, which would nicely render the whole issue irrelevant. Until that day, though, when RKBA antagonists sow the wind, they should reap the whirlwind. (with credit to Arthur "Bomber" Harris, RAF, for that wonderful metaphor which he used it to describe the Nazis' bombing campaign)
Quote:
So what have they proven? That if you perform an act that is already illegal, some harm could possibly follow - didn't we already know that?
No harm will follow from the purchase itself. That's the reason most of us believe that what the reporter did should be legal. The harm that occurred was caused by the reporter's mouth and his being an employee of a news organization. And TV... TV is definitely at fault. We need to ban reporters speaking or writing to the public, news organizations, and TVs.
__________________
“The egg hatched...” “...the egg hatched... and a hundred baby spiders came out...” (blade runner)
“Who are you?” “A friend. I'm here to prevent you from making a mistake.” “You have no idea what I'm doing here, friend.” “In specific terms, no, but I swore an oath to protect the world...” (continuum)
“It's a goal you won't understand until later. Your job is to make sure he doesn't achieve the goal.” (bsg)
tyme is offline  
Old February 19, 2005, 10:03 PM   #11
38splfan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 2004
Location: Ft. Lewis/Tacoma, WA.
Posts: 1,034
Useless Trivia

Quote:
(that funny symbol like two dollor signs intermergered) 178.29: Out of state acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees;
The two funny dollar signs are for "subsection".

Don't ask how I know that
I need sleep
38splfan is offline  
Old February 19, 2005, 10:37 PM   #12
sleeping dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2000
Location: MI
Posts: 536
I just saw a replay of the article on CNN. When the seller and buyer walked out of the house with the gun, it was not the reporter that bought the gun. The reporter wasn't in the picture. The reporter handled a rifle case on an airport luggage conveyer, but apparently didn't actually go anywhere with the 50 cal. The reporter at the end of the story made it clear that the gun was bought in Texas by a resident of Texas (which was not the reporter).

So, nothing illegal was done, but the story as presented was a lie, implying that the reporter flew home with the rifle. In fact, the rifle stayed in Texas, and the purchaser was not the reporter. From the Michael Moore school of journalism.

tyme, when Sarah Brady bought a rifle for her son, that was legal, and still is legal. You are allowed to purchase a gun which is intended as a gift. A gift is not a straw purchase. Some states may be more restrictive, but she broke no federal rule. It would only be illegal if she knew that her son was not allowed to have a gun, if he was convicted of a felony, for example. Sarah may not be real popular on this board, but she's only guilty of irony.

Regards.
sleeping dog is offline  
Old February 19, 2005, 11:17 PM   #13
USP45usp
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2000
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,427
Tyme,

I think that I and sleeping dog got it right on this one. I am right on the buying of a rifle or shotgun in other states that you are not resident in and he (sleeping dog) is right about it not being against the law to buy a gun, any gun, as a gift.

As much as I don't like sarah brady and as much as I don't like so called "reporters", neither broke the law.
USP45usp is offline  
Old February 20, 2005, 03:14 AM   #14
jimpeel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,530
§ means either "section" or "subsection" interchangeably. They are simply two S's intertwined, not dollar signs.
jimpeel is offline  
Old February 20, 2005, 12:59 PM   #15
USP45usp
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2000
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,427
Jim and 38spfan: Thanks. I didn't know how to really disscribe them and I didn't know what they stood for .

Hey, I learned something new and now I can quote fed law and sound like I know what I'm taking about
USP45usp is offline  
Old February 20, 2005, 05:26 PM   #16
38splfan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 2004
Location: Ft. Lewis/Tacoma, WA.
Posts: 1,034
Qoute Federal Law.

Quote:
quote fed law and sound like I know what I'm taking about
Nope. Federal Law doesn't make sense.
Not even the Federal Lawmakers know what they are talking about

Sorry, couldn't resist.....
38splfan is offline  
Old February 20, 2005, 05:31 PM   #17
USP45usp
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2000
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,427
38splfan:



And I love your sig

Wayne

Last edited by USP45usp; February 20, 2005 at 05:32 PM. Reason: you'd think that I could spell
USP45usp is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08438 seconds with 10 queries