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February 9, 2018, 08:13 PM | #126 | |
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You're not shooting 40sw out of a 10mm. So for hand loaders, I guess they could back down the 10 mm power but where does that leave everyone else? |
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February 9, 2018, 09:03 PM | #127 |
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There are several factory ammo choices that aren’t particularly warm. The S&B is 180gr @ 1150fps and it was 14.99 the last time I bought it.
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February 10, 2018, 08:05 AM | #128 |
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I still don't get it.
Maybe I just need to buy one to figure it out |
February 10, 2018, 08:51 AM | #129 |
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Hard to argue that logic! It’s an addictive round.
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February 10, 2018, 09:11 AM | #130 | |
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Using the premise that increasing power is desirable as long as the shooter can effectively (subjective) control the pistol. (My comments will likely be dissected (not by you) to validate 9mm cause of fastest follow up shots, cost, ect... like I am unaware of those advantages). Refer to my link in reply #18 for pics supporting the premise than increased KE offers more potential My wife has a Ruger 1911 CMD 9mm lightweight, have not chronographed it yet, so I will use data I obtained from Glock 19 which has similar length barrel. I've tested some of these bullets by placing 4 layer denim in front of water filled gallon jugs and penetration is equivalent, back of 3rd jug, crack/dent 4th; (generalization that 10mm overpenetrates invalid) what is not equivalent is visible impact / damage to the jugs. 9mm Federal HST 147 gr +P @ 1,044 fps / 356# KE (recovered diameter ~.63) 45 acp Federal 230 HST @ 891 fps / 406# KE (recovered diameter ~.87) 45 acp Winchester 230 Ranger T @ 915 fps / 428# KE 45 acp Remington Golden Saber 185 +P @ 1,157 fps / 550# KE 10mm Handload 180 Gold Dot @ 1,152 fps / 531# KE (recovered diameter ~.80) 10mm Handload 180 Nosler @ 1,228 fps / 603# KE (recovered diameter ~.68) 1911 platform: My wife is able to shoot the lightweight 9mm CMD obviously quicker than my steel full size 1911, best choice for her, capacity of 9+1 is a bonus. For me, the subjective recoil difference in a stout 45 acp like Ranger T 230, or 185 Golden Saber +P and my 10mm handloads is insignificant. Why 10mm? I get an extra round capacity and more KE. Referring back to the lame cliche "handgun suck at stopping people" - pick a caliber that sucks the least ... 10mm
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February 10, 2018, 02:40 PM | #131 |
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^ Yeah, I mean if someone feels they need more power, more ft-lbs of energy and they want that in a pistol that's cheaper than a Coonan or Desert Eagle and the ammunition is cheaper too, then 10mm is the best option.
I like the ability with certain cartridges to have a variable power spectrum. With 10mm you can go from strong 9mm power all the way up to almost .41 Magnum power, while in .327 you can go from .22 LR power up to almost .357 levels of power.
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February 11, 2018, 11:09 AM | #132 | ||
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Both wheelies use 10mm moonclips (holding 6 rds). So you pop in one clip with 10mm or another with .40S&W. ... Or, if you want some real fun, have the cylinder chambers of either revolver reamed out to 10mm Magnum specs, and you can then shoot all three cartridges using the same clips from the same gun. Easy-peasy. Quote:
Second, if I do want to shoot something 'fluffy-n-swishy' out of one of my Glock 10mms, which, frankly, is rare, there's a simple solution. I just install an aftermarket .40 tube and start cranking off rounds of .40 ammo until I forget it's not a 9mm ('cause that's what most target-grade .40 ammo feels like out of a G20) and re-install the 10mm tube, and return to the Happy Land of the High-Performance 10mm AUTO. Last edited by agtman; February 11, 2018 at 11:50 AM. |
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February 11, 2018, 03:57 PM | #133 | |
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February 26, 2018, 09:33 AM | #134 | |
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February 26, 2018, 09:48 AM | #135 | |
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Flame away. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk |
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February 26, 2018, 11:09 AM | #136 |
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I get the .45 Super, the AE cartridges, and the other things out there that have more power than the 10MM. You also missed the .40 Super which seems intriguing.
Still none of these are available in anything that gives me 10 shots like a G29 does. The Glock line-up (and probably some others) does a lot for the 10MM in bringing it "to the people" who don't want to spend high end 1911 money, want a beat around the truck or tackle box gun, and just want simple. Frankly the G29, to me, is the SP101 of the auto-loader world. Is it the best at anything? No. For various individual uses there are better guns and cartridges. Still for a one gun "do all" pistol... yep |
February 26, 2018, 06:34 PM | #137 | ||
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Job well done, troll. |
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February 26, 2018, 06:51 PM | #138 |
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Not a troll at all, but in over 100 posts the OP premise is never questioned. I like the power of the 10mm, but why should I buy a new gun when an hk usp will have 12+1 shooting 45 super?
To answer the OP, it's being touted because of sales. Everyone looks for the new next best thing, even if it's pulling up a little used cartridge that has limited use for almost anyone who isn't selling new 10mms. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk |
February 26, 2018, 07:00 PM | #139 | ||
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Last edited by agtman; February 27, 2018 at 07:55 AM. |
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February 26, 2018, 07:24 PM | #140 |
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The 45 Super is safe in, what, one production handgun? Even the the manufacturer doesn’t support it. You can’t buy ammo anywhere and virtually no one has heard of it. It’s irrelevant to the question at hand
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February 26, 2018, 08:28 PM | #141 | |
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BUT, at the time the 10mm was waning and brass was not easy to find. But a .40 conversion barrel would have solved that, since for the woods I don't need thousands of cases for reloading. Probably a couple of hundred 10mm cases would have held me over for many years. I am |-| close to getting a G20gen4.
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February 26, 2018, 10:20 PM | #142 |
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March 4, 2018, 04:19 PM | #143 |
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Commercial loads don't exist for the 10mm powerhouses.
Speer's "Bonded" bullet is an older technology predating the Gold Dot. Speer's Gold Dot load just came out last month with a 200gr Gold Dot at 1100FPS. Speer/CCI (also owned by Vista that owns American Eagle-it's not ATK) knows what their doing. Gold Dots probably fail at higher FPS-ie come apart. The ammo quest on 10mm showed it well. The 160gr 10mm Speer Bonded bullet nearly comes apart. You aren't gaining anything by having to drive a cruddier technology faster when the performance is the same. There isn't a premium self defense round in 10mm that needs to be 10mm hot and XTPs that are loaded for 10mm aren't great for it either as the round is a hunting round (Xtreme Penetration in the title). Range fodder is the S&B 10mm 180gr. Those are about right at 40 levels. So $16 a box online to shoot 40 in a larger framed gun. Na. Pass. If you make your own fine. But the market really doesn't support 10mm with a bullet worth buying in 10mm. |
March 5, 2018, 08:33 AM | #144 | |
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And yes, it's all about sales volume. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk |
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March 5, 2018, 05:03 PM | #145 |
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So when you walk into your local gun shop people can gun shame you for not having a 10 MM.
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March 5, 2018, 06:11 PM | #146 | |
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You're wrong on both points, and your tyro posts in this thread identify you as a caliber toolbot. Focus, dude, this shizznitz ain't rocket science. |
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March 5, 2018, 07:01 PM | #147 |
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I don't know anyone who buys a 10mm SOLELY for the purpose of defense against other persons. As pointed out there are plenty of adequate loads in several calibers that fit in smaller platforms. I think the RE-surgence is due to more interest in the 10mm as an outdoor defense/hunting cartridge. That is where the factory ammo is hot loaded with hardcast, XTP and FMJFP bullets.
And there is no doubt the cartridge is growing in popularity as there are more and more 10mm pistols being released. Today there are many more brands and models of 10mm than there were 15 yrs ago. It started off with a bang as a human self defense load mainly due to Jeff Cooper's endorsement and FBI INITIAL endorsement, aka S&W 1076. The release of the Glock 20 helped in the beginning. Then when everyone realized it was not practical at full loads for department use it got downloaded and then there was no reason for it over the same load in .40S&W. But due to multiple small ammo manufacturers developing hunting/bear loads with full pressure and hard bullets it slowly starting regaining some ground and then pistol mfgrs got on board. Today it is rising in popularity as more guys would prefer to carry a 10mm hot loaded into the woods than a heavier and bulkier M29 or Redhawk in .44Mag (whether right or wrong doesn't matter).
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March 5, 2018, 07:18 PM | #148 | |
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March 6, 2018, 02:57 PM | #149 |
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So if anything, the history 10mm shows 9mm is it for personal defense.
Currently, there isn't a commercial bullet designed for hot 10mm FPS. The Gold Dot factory load works and works at .40 level FPS. Speer "bonded" by BB, DT, and Underwood is older Gold Dot technology. So same results at the cost of having to go hotter. Anything else (hard cast, FMJ, XTP) isn't ideal for personal defense but hunting--really questionable if anything needs it specifically too let alone the view that offer at hot loads too. |
March 6, 2018, 05:45 PM | #150 | |
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FMJ and hard cast boolits in various cartridges have been used for personal defense for well over a century. E.g., USGI 230gn .45acp ball ammo has been putting bad guys and enemy combatants down since WW1, and it still does today. The 10mm was introduced in 1983; the .40 not until 1990. After the 1986 FBI shoot-out in Miami, the Bureau's policy mantra became "penetration first, last, and always." They then adopted the 10mm cartridge, and bullet-makers, like Hornady, responded with highly penetrative projectiles like the XTP. Federal introduced the first pistol ammo in 10mm with a bonded bullet, a 190gn JHP (loaded @ 1050fps from the 4.25" S&W 1076, which was the Bureau sidearm back then). You need to actually know the history of the 10mm before spouting off. Early 10mm.40-cal bullets, like Winchester's 175gn STHP at just shy of 1300fps, were introduced during the initial "full-power" era of 10mm ammo and were strictly intended to be defensive, anti-personnel rounds, like the XTP-HP. Any thought as to how such projectiles might fare in the fields and forests as a handgun "hunting" round came later and was a totally secondary use. As Col. Jeff Cooper put it during the mid-'80s, the 10mm AUTO was "intended from the ground up" to be the premier "combat" pistol cartridge, the "heir apparent" to the .45acp, of which he had once been the Big Guru. Last edited by agtman; March 7, 2018 at 08:12 AM. |
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