Pawn shop find: No 4, Mk 1 .303

lockedcj7 · February 14, 2016, 06:11 PM

Went to the gun show yesterday and didn't come out with anything good. I did sell an AR that was redundant in my collection and then found myself at a pawn shop I haven't visited in years. This gem (?) followed me home.

I don't know much about it other than what I've read online and what is obvious. It is missing the magazine and safety parts but Numrich has most of them. The serial numbers on the bolt, receiver and barrel all match. The rifling is strong but the grooves are dark and I think I see a tiny bit of pitting. Anything that anyone can tell me along with an approximate value would be greatly appreciated.

wogpotter · February 14, 2016, 06:27 PM

A No4 Mk1 that was given an FTR (complete overhaul) at Fazakerly (near Birmingham) later in its life. Has the trigger been upgraded to the Mk2 specs? (attached to metal hanger as part of the receiver not bolted to the trigger guard) It was imported into the USA before 1968. Any original information is on the stock wrist, but I cant read the stamps apart from the "ENGLAND" Import mark.

Its been sporterized & the stock has been heavily sanded.
With the missing parts replaced its worth about $125~150.

Possibly still a nice shooter though.

lockedcj7 · February 14, 2016, 07:04 PM

Thanks for the quick reply. I only paid $60 for it so I didn't do too bad, even with the parts it needs.

gyvel · February 15, 2016, 02:58 AM

Looks like original manufacture date was 1943 or 1945, as best as I can make out the scribe on the wrist. The stamped trigger guard also indicates the fact that this is probably a '43 or '45 gun. Maybe a close up of that date???

I also doubt that it is an "upgrade" gun, as they would be marked either No 4 Mk1/2 or No 4 Mk1/3, which I don't see on the side of the body (receiver). Additionally, there would be a screw through the rear end of the fore stock where the riveted on tie plate is.

From what I see, there is little damage to the gun other than somebody chopped the stock. This would make it a prime candidate for a full restoration to original.

Edit: Disregard the whole S47 Shirley comment. Shirley was "M47," not "S47."

A close up of the wrist markings would be immensely helpful.

wogpotter · February 15, 2016, 09:06 AM

You did fine for that price!

kilimanjaro · February 15, 2016, 10:54 AM

Good deer rifle, I see the prices on sportered Lee-Enfields hasn't changed since 1975, mine cost $60, too.

You might get a pretty nice restoration out of it for about $100, stock, magazine, front bands.

lockedcj7 · February 15, 2016, 05:10 PM

I might try to bring it back to original configuration if I can find a good deal on the stock and hardware. So far all I've seen are too expensive to justify. I've already ordered the safety and magazine though.

Taking a deer with it is definitely on the agenda.

deerslayer303 · February 15, 2016, 08:15 PM

Nice buy, I would have snapped it up too. Restock that baby and return her to all her glory. I love hunting with my old Longbranch No.4 Mk1. And for Pete's sake pull the trigger and hold it when closing the bolt (on an empty gun of course), or decock it. Its just a pet peeve of mine. I can't stand to see a rifle sitting around cocked all the time.

gyvel · February 16, 2016, 12:09 AM

Quote:

I might try to bring it back to original configuration if I can find a good deal on the stock and hardware. So far all I've seen are too expensive to justify. I've already ordered the safety and magazine though.

Search the usual suspects: Numrich, Sarco, AIM, Springfield Sporters, and especially eBay.

That gun deserves to be returned to its original condition, especially since just the wood has been bubba'd. Even if you invest $100.00 in parts, you're still money ahead. A nice No 4 can easily fetch $250+ in today's market.

T. O'Heir · February 16, 2016, 02:20 PM

Before you do anything else, check the headspace. No. 4 Rifles are notorious for having been assembled out of parts bins with zero QC.
To bring it back to original configuration will cost a ton of money. $100 won't buy the stock with all the wee bits that go with it. A stock runs about $70 with no metal. Complete sets don't exist any more. It's the wee metal bits that add up the most. The 3 stock bands and all those wee 3 and 4 dollars each screws.
The safety with all its parts alone runs about $25.55 from Gunparts(who for some daft reason call No. 4 Rifles SMLE's. There are not SMLE's.
The .303 British will kill any game in North America, including big bears, with no fuss. However, you must slug the barrel as they can run between .311" and .315" and still be considered OK. Issue is that commercial ammo uses either .311" or .312" bullets. Not unsafe in a, say .314" barrel, but accuracy will be poor.

lockedcj7 · April 9, 2016, 07:20 PM

After a little cleaning and finding the appropriate parts, here are some (poor) pics. I did manage to de-cock it for deerslayer303

I don't think I'm going to go looking for a stock. If I stumble across one that's a great deal, I might go for it but I'm kind-of digging the sporterized stock. I still haven't shot it so a range report will follow.

deerslayer303 · April 9, 2016, 07:57 PM

Thank you

. The rifle looks great! Did ya shoot it yet.

February 14, 2016, 06:11 PM	#1
lockedcj7 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2007 Posts: 1,215	Pawn shop find: No 4, Mk 1 .303 Went to the gun show yesterday and didn't come out with anything good. I did sell an AR that was redundant in my collection and then found myself at a pawn shop I haven't visited in years. This gem (?) followed me home. I don't know much about it other than what I've read online and what is obvious. It is missing the magazine and safety parts but Numrich has most of them. The serial numbers on the bolt, receiver and barrel all match. The rifling is strong but the grooves are dark and I think I see a tiny bit of pitting. Anything that anyone can tell me along with an approximate value would be greatly appreciated. __________________ To a much greater extent than most mechanical devices, firearms are terribly unforgiving of any overconfidence, complacency or negligence.

February 14, 2016, 06:27 PM	#2
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	A No4 Mk1 that was given an FTR (complete overhaul) at Fazakerly (near Birmingham) later in its life. Has the trigger been upgraded to the Mk2 specs? (attached to metal hanger as part of the receiver not bolted to the trigger guard) It was imported into the USA before 1968. Any original information is on the stock wrist, but I cant read the stamps apart from the "ENGLAND" Import mark. Its been sporterized & the stock has been heavily sanded. With the missing parts replaced its worth about $125~150. Possibly still a nice shooter though. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

February 14, 2016, 07:04 PM	#3
lockedcj7 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2007 Posts: 1,215	Thanks for the quick reply. I only paid $60 for it so I didn't do too bad, even with the parts it needs. __________________ To a much greater extent than most mechanical devices, firearms are terribly unforgiving of any overconfidence, complacency or negligence.

February 15, 2016, 02:58 AM	#4
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Looks like original manufacture date was 1943 or 1945, as best as I can make out the scribe on the wrist. The stamped trigger guard also indicates the fact that this is probably a '43 or '45 gun. Maybe a close up of that date??? I also doubt that it is an "upgrade" gun, as they would be marked either No 4 Mk1/2 or No 4 Mk1/3, which I don't see on the side of the body (receiver). Additionally, there would be a screw through the rear end of the fore stock where the riveted on tie plate is. From what I see, there is little damage to the gun other than somebody chopped the stock. This would make it a prime candidate for a full restoration to original. Edit: Disregard the whole S47 Shirley comment. Shirley was "M47," not "S47." A close up of the wrist markings would be immensely helpful. __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE Last edited by gyvel; February 16, 2016 at 12:05 AM.

February 15, 2016, 09:06 AM	#5
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	You did fine for that price! __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

February 15, 2016, 10:54 AM	#6
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Good deer rifle, I see the prices on sportered Lee-Enfields hasn't changed since 1975, mine cost $60, too. You might get a pretty nice restoration out of it for about $100, stock, magazine, front bands.

February 15, 2016, 05:10 PM	#7
lockedcj7 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2007 Posts: 1,215	I might try to bring it back to original configuration if I can find a good deal on the stock and hardware. So far all I've seen are too expensive to justify. I've already ordered the safety and magazine though. Taking a deer with it is definitely on the agenda. __________________ To a much greater extent than most mechanical devices, firearms are terribly unforgiving of any overconfidence, complacency or negligence.

February 15, 2016, 08:15 PM	#8
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,653	Nice buy, I would have snapped it up too. Restock that baby and return her to all her glory. I love hunting with my old Longbranch No.4 Mk1. And for Pete's sake pull the trigger and hold it when closing the bolt (on an empty gun of course), or decock it. Its just a pet peeve of mine. I can't stand to see a rifle sitting around cocked all the time. __________________ "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

February 16, 2016, 02:20 PM	#10
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Before you do anything else, check the headspace. No. 4 Rifles are notorious for having been assembled out of parts bins with zero QC. To bring it back to original configuration will cost a ton of money. $100 won't buy the stock with all the wee bits that go with it. A stock runs about $70 with no metal. Complete sets don't exist any more. It's the wee metal bits that add up the most. The 3 stock bands and all those wee 3 and 4 dollars each screws. The safety with all its parts alone runs about $25.55 from Gunparts(who for some daft reason call No. 4 Rifles SMLE's. There are not SMLE's. The .303 British will kill any game in North America, including big bears, with no fuss. However, you must slug the barrel as they can run between .311" and .315" and still be considered OK. Issue is that commercial ammo uses either .311" or .312" bullets. Not unsafe in a, say .314" barrel, but accuracy will be poor. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

April 9, 2016, 07:20 PM	#11
lockedcj7 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2007 Posts: 1,215	After a little cleaning and finding the appropriate parts, here are some (poor) pics. I did manage to de-cock it for deerslayer303 I don't think I'm going to go looking for a stock. If I stumble across one that's a great deal, I might go for it but I'm kind-of digging the sporterized stock. I still haven't shot it so a range report will follow. __________________ To a much greater extent than most mechanical devices, firearms are terribly unforgiving of any overconfidence, complacency or negligence.

April 9, 2016, 07:57 PM	#12
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,653	Thank you. The rifle looks great! Did ya shoot it yet.