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Old May 22, 2016, 10:17 PM   #1
Sergeant
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Gulf War Iraqi Sidearms

What did soldiers see during the Gulf War? I saw more Russian Makarov pistols than anything else. But did see the Tokarev and Tariq. Our Bn XO brought back a 380. Not sure the make. On a side note, I deployed for Desert Storm with a M10 S&W revolver, then was issued a 1911 and during Desert Storm ended up with a M9. Seems like the war triggered a faster upgrade to the M9.
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Old May 22, 2016, 10:25 PM   #2
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Pistols seemed to be few and far between during my time in Iraq (2005-2011). We ran into every conceivable longgun. Sterlings & MP5's were the most common subgun. AK's in every config possible (of course) HK G3's & FAL's. Heck, we even found a DShK in a dudes back yard, 300 yds from the venue we were securing that would have made things interesting for our visit.

Handguns ran the gamut for Mak's to Tok's and actually lots of Glocks.
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Old May 23, 2016, 04:51 AM   #3
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Did seem like the AKs were all kinds now that you mentioned it I think it had to do with So-Dam-Insane increasing his Army numbers without a plan to equip them correctly.

I forgot about the Glocks. I do not think there was a country I was in that did not have Glocks. Or Glock look-a-likes.

Last edited by Sergeant; May 23, 2016 at 04:57 AM.
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Old May 23, 2016, 05:22 AM   #4
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One guy had a Tariq on Gunbroker. I believe he scored several thousand dollars for it.
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Old May 23, 2016, 04:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gyvel
One guy had a Tariq on Gunbroker. I believe he scored several thousand dollars for it.
FWIW I believe that ITAR—specifically 22 CFR § 126.1(c)(4)—prohibits the importation of firearms from countries under U.N. arms embargoes, which apparently still includes Iraq.

22 CFR § 126.1(f) provides that "...a license or other approval may be issued, on a case-by-case basis for... (l)ethal military equipment required by the Government of Iraq or coalition forces". Pistols would seem to qualify for this exemption only if they are "...required by ... coalition forces" [i.e. the U.S. military] for some reason. IOW Tariq pistols may only be imported into the USA if they're bound for the U.S. military or a legally authorized agent thereof.

The law doesn't seem to limit such items from being commercially resold once the military is done with 'em, but given recent history regarding surplus firearms, IMHO the U.S. military selling Iraqi pistols on the milsurp market fits squarely in the "Not Gonna Happen in your Lifetime" category.

IOW a Tariq pistol in the USA is a unicorn until the law changes. No wonder that Tariq sold for 4 figures!
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Old May 23, 2016, 04:27 PM   #6
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While the importer might be in deep trouble, AFAIK the lack of import stamp doesn't make it a prohibited item as long as it has a serial number. As long as you can show "good faith" purchase owning it should be fine.
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Old May 23, 2016, 04:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapsjanhere
...AFAIK the lack of import stamp doesn't make it a prohibited item as long as it has a serial number. As long as you can show "good faith" purchase owning it should be fine.
That's my understanding as well. The point is simply that CIA or PW Arms presumably aren't going into the Tariq business anytime soon.
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Old May 23, 2016, 05:41 PM   #8
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Looks like Kuwait Saudi and Egypt are not included in that CFR and it may have been originally written after the 1st Gulf War. They told use we could bring back any equipment as long as it was not a weapon. Later we found out we could have brought back non class 3 items as long as they were properly documented. Got a feeling after that things tightened up real quick.
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Old May 24, 2016, 11:11 AM   #9
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I'm not sure when 22 CFR § 126 was originally enacted, but it seems to be updated fairly promptly most times that a nation's embargo status changes. (Just out of curiosity, I may watch to see how soon the status of Cote d'Ivoire changes, as its UN arms embargo was lifted on April 28th of this year.)

Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt are not, and have not been, subject to UN embargoes.

22 CFR § 126 restricts all arms imports "originating in certain countries" regardless of what other countries they pass through on the way, who is doing the importing, and how. However—although I'm no expert on ITAR—the main practical effect of the law as it relates to small arms imports is on corporations and FFL importers; a licensed importer or company striving to operate aboveboard is not going to risk illegally importing items that may originate in an embargoed country.

OTOH enforcement seems to be relatively lax as it relates to private citizens and servicemen returning from abroad with a souvenir firearm in their luggage, and I surmise this is how most firearm "unicorns" have wound up here. Also, I've been told by some knowledgeable milsurp enthusiasts that simple possession of a restricted ITAR import already within U.S. borders is not a crime, and my reading of the law seems to agree with this; 22 CFR § 127 clearly says it's a crime to export a restricted item, import or attempt to import such an item, or to facilitate the transfer of such an item from one foreign entity to another, but it does not appear to criminalize simple possession or transfer of the item within the United States. (This of course assumes that possession of the item is not illegal for some other reason, e.g. a firearm with the serial number defaced.)
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Last edited by carguychris; May 24, 2016 at 11:21 AM. Reason: minor reword
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Old May 24, 2016, 01:58 PM   #10
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I have a scoped Iraqi Tabuk sniper rifle, in 7.62x39, that was built from a kit. It is such a sweet shooter...compared to my Romanian PSL beast, in 7.62x54R; which is still in the field of battle with the Kurds against the Daesh.

Saddam Hussein also owned a Browning HP --- He was captured in his rat hole with it.

Saddam Hussein's sons had gold plated AK's.
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