The Firing Line Forums What exactly happens when you hit somebody with over 1,000lumens at night?
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September 18, 2013, 12:23 PM   #51
Buzzcook
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Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 6,088
MLeake, the OP will be in Europe for a matter of weeks or months not years.

Don't think your multiplication of risk by years is correct. The chances stay the same year after year. It's like flipping a coin the odds are always 50/50 flipping heads 3 times in a row doesn't increase the odds that the next flip will be tails.

As you can see by this report.
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/97.835.PDF
The odds of dying in a car crash vary depending on a range of conditions, age sex, time of day etc.

The same would be true of the risks of personal attack in a major European city. One condition that would reduce that risk (imho) would be, being a tourist in areas frequented by tourist, ie the British Museum, Trafalgar Square, Abby Road.

Quote:
 Capt Rick Hiott ,,,,,,this started out talking about flash lights......
Flashlights used as weapons.

 September 18, 2013, 01:11 PM #52 MLeake Senior Member   Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128 Actually, if the odds of a coin flip are 50/50, then for any given toss they are 50/50. But, over 10,000 tosses, one would expect to see heads about 5,000 times. IE, you are changing the math to suit your argument, when the numbers do not support it. As far as months, not years, then the odds of a crime against person remain very low, yet still twice as high as those of a car wreck in that same short period. Again, would the OP be paranoid for wearing his seat belt?
 September 18, 2013, 01:15 PM #53 Frank Ettin Staff   Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,162 We're getting badly off track here. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
 September 18, 2013, 06:04 PM #54 G1R2 Member   Join Date: December 20, 2011 Posts: 73 Dear Gentlemen: I think the answer to the question is quite simple. "What exactly happens when you hit somebody with over 1,000 lumens at night?" Who knows? Just buy a flashlight with 1,000 lumens power, stand in front of a mirror at night and turn it on ----- wow, you've got your answer! Long ago, I stopped asking simple questions on this forum because no one could give a simple answer. I'm afraid the majority of those who post answers on this forum would never pass a basic English reading comphehension exam.
 September 18, 2013, 09:59 PM #56 Jim March Senior Member   Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,413 Yeah, but now add a fast randomized strobe effect. And keep it pointed directly in their eyes. __________________ Jim March
 September 19, 2013, 08:39 AM #58 Ben Towe Senior Member   Join Date: March 6, 2009 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 1,128 1,000 lumens shined in your eyes in a dark place will completely blind you for 10 seconds or so, it will take minutes to fully regain your vision. I know, because a buddy accidentally did it to me a couple nights ago with a 1200 lumen light. __________________ 'Merica: Back to back World War Champs
 September 20, 2013, 01:49 PM #59 Glenn E. Meyer Staff   Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,061 I wouldn't trust a flashlight to be a blinding tool except at close ranges in the dark. My experience in dark exercises at any distance but close up is that the light effect is trivial in performance. I have tested myself at close up at full dark adaptation with a Surefire and it did set me back. But move back aways and I could still function. I found the strobes did nothing to disconcert me. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens
 September 20, 2013, 05:18 PM #60 G1R2 Member   Join Date: December 20, 2011 Posts: 73 Bravo We finally got the answer. "1,000 lumens shined in your eyes in a dark place will completely blind you for 10 seconds or so, it will take minutes to fully regain your vision. I know, because a buddy accidentally did it to me a couple nights ago with a 1200 lumen light."
 September 20, 2013, 10:57 PM #61 RBid Senior Member   Join Date: March 10, 2012 Posts: 1,059 Instinct and protective reflex can be powerful things. In the absence of other things, you can still make use of *time*. While a prepared person may easily look into a 150 lumen light and reason through it, a person who is surprised by one will typically turn away, throw hands in front of their eyes, etc. Regardless of their specific physical response, their brain may also take 1-3 seconds to resolve the surprise. In any case, you may gain a couple seconds, and take them out of their violent 'script'.
September 23, 2013, 02:14 AM   #62
Ben Towe
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Quote:
 Instinct and protective reflex can be powerful things. In the absence of other things, you can still make use of *time*. While a prepared person may easily look into a 150 lumen light and reason through it, a person who is surprised by one will typically turn away, throw hands in front of their eyes, etc. Regardless of their specific physical response, their brain may also take 1-3 seconds to resolve the surprise. In any case, you may gain a couple seconds, and take them out of their violent 'script'.
Three seconds is an eternity if it is wisely utilized. You can escape, disarm or disable (depending on the situation) a threat in that length of time.
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September 24, 2013, 02:15 AM   #64
Rikakiah
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Join Date: June 29, 2013
Posts: 189
Re: What exactly happens when you hit somebody with over 1,000lumens at night?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by thesecond And so one will ask, what were you doing before, and what will you be doing after, flashing a light?
I think this is the crux of it. If you're relying on the power of the light to save you, you're gonna be disappointed. However, I agree it can be useful against one (maybe two, situation favoring it) attackers to give you the time to make your next move, be it flight or aggression.

I've got a Fenix PD32 that I like. It has 5 powers, up to 740 lumens, I believe. I hit myself with a quick burst in the mirror after being in the dark for a minute (eyes weren't fully acclimated). I could tell exactly where the light was and could probably fumble my way to it, no matter it being a little painful. However, I had it on less than a second and when it went off, my world went BLACK. If someone was at the light point, they had a good second, even under my prepared condition that they could've moved to the side and been gone or on me without me seeing.

Now, there's several tactics you can employ and an even more powerful light will cause more pain, but a determined attacker will likely be able to close the distance to the light. If that's all you're relying on, it won't matter that he's a bit dazed-he's on you and angry. Have a plan of what your action is immediately after you turn it on.

Personally, if I'm that worried about an attack and can't carry a legitimate weapon, I'd take some practical-focused self-defense/hand to hand combat classes.

September 24, 2013, 03:09 PM   #65
markj
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Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
Posts: 2,971
Quote:
 Yeah, but now add a fast randomized strobe effect. And keep it pointed directly in their eyes.

That hurts, try it in a dark room after the eyes adjust. Will be very disorienting.

 September 24, 2013, 05:59 PM #66 tomhy1911 Junior Member   Join Date: July 30, 2012 Posts: 12 This might sound dumb but cant u ship it to your hotel so its their when you arrive and mail it back home when you leave? I didn't know flashlights got so bright, I gotta have one!
 September 25, 2013, 05:23 PM #67 Scouse Senior Member   Join Date: June 9, 2011 Posts: 133 Stick the thing in checked baggage and you will be fine getting it in. If you somehow end up being questioned by a copper once in London, do not, under any circumstances, indicate that anything you are carrying is for self defence. Although proportionate acts of self defence are as legal as in the US, any act that indicates preparation of violence in advance, even defensive violence, is considered 'offensive', and can get you arrested. Sure this has been said, but to reiterate, do not carry anything with a crenelated bezel and do not wander the streets with a 4D Maglite or similar.
September 25, 2013, 09:44 PM   #68
Double Naught Spy
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Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
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Quote:
 Sure this has been said, but to reiterate, do not carry anything with a crenelated bezel and do not wander the streets with a 4D Maglite or similar.
Really? What is wrong with crenulated bezels? You can certainly buy such flashlight (torches) in GB with crenulations. The crenulations are an auto windshield glass breaker. They you to place the light bell down with it on such that it will still emit light and not overheat.

A brief review of British flashlight forums on carrying just about anything for self defense makes it a weapon and hence illegal. The crenulations don't make it illegal. The number of batteries don't make it illegal. The lumens don't make it illegal.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011

 September 26, 2013, 01:39 PM #69 Scouse Senior Member   Join Date: June 9, 2011 Posts: 133 All fully true DNS, however "offensive" is in the judgement of the copper on the street, and crenelated bezels are often advertised as additions to make a torch more useful for defence. Sure you can argue it is a glass breaker, might be fine, but it might get you arrested. The law specifically criminalises carrying anything modified or adapted for defensive purposes, so crenelated bezels do represent a risk in this sense. You can buy all sorts of things that would be illegal to carry without lawful reason, which does not include just wanting to or protection. Big Maglites are the same. They are rubbish as torches by modern standards, unless upgraded, however they can make excellent clubs. Copper might not have a problem, but wandering London on foot, he really might.
 September 26, 2013, 01:44 PM #70 ChasingWhitetail91 Senior Member   Join Date: October 10, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 336 Leave the flashlight at home and take Liam Neeson with you. __________________ Abraham Lincoln made all men free, Samuel Colt made them equal.
 September 26, 2013, 01:45 PM #71 Scouse Senior Member   Join Date: June 9, 2011 Posts: 133 Well the man is from the UK!
 September 26, 2013, 09:51 PM #72 pete2 Senior Member   Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 1,935 What happens? They are lit up. If you are unlucky they shoot it.
 September 27, 2013, 06:54 AM #73 Double Naught Spy Senior Member   Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,058 I can hear the catch phrase exchange now... "Why do you carry such a bright torch?" "Because a bobby is too heavy" __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
 September 27, 2013, 09:24 AM #74 Frank Ettin Staff   Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,162 We seem to have exhausted this subject. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

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