CCW with a single action - Page 3

Real Gun · February 22, 2018, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Carrying a SA revolver in the 21st century is pure vanity

What do you call intolerance for other people's preferences? I don't actually carry a SA for lack of a suitable holster, but call me vain.

I shoot Cowboy Action, so I know how to run a SA. I don't shoot one-handed, but I could, and would certainly practice that, if intending to carry for defense.

Real Gun · February 22, 2018, 08:45 AM

Quote:

It sure is not picking the best tool for the job

Hmmm...double action alone does not make a gun the best tool.

**OldMarksman** · February 22, 2018, 08:57 AM

Quote:

What do you call intolerance for other people's preferences?

Expressing opinions and providing objective support for same does not constitute "intolerance for other people's preferences".

There were very good reasons for the replacement of the single action mechanism, and for the replacement of the single ejection-single loading process, in small pistols more than a century ago.

The old single action pocket guns joined those without trigger guards, those that did not use self-contained ammunition, guns that were slow to reload, and guns that were not drop safe in collections a very long time ago.

dahermit · February 22, 2018, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Expressing opinions and providing objective support for same does not constitute "intolerance for other people's preferences".

The post that was the impetus for the intolerance remark did not provide objective support. It was merely an Ad Hominin attack ("Carrying a SA revolver in the 21st century is pure vanity") and also not accurate. There can be many reasons why a person would choose to carry a single action for defense. Dismissing them as "vain" is intolerant. Note that I do not carry a Single-Action.

Hawg · February 22, 2018, 11:35 AM

I met a deputy sheriff that carried a Uberti Cattleman as a duty weapon.

Driftwood Johnson · February 22, 2018, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Not a fan of that big hammer being unprotected by the holster. Likewise the trigger. Just looks like the hammer could be poking your side for one thing. Or possibly get snagged in something cocking it. Then the trigger being unprotected could all be adding up to a perfect storm.

As I said previously, I don't think carrying a single action revolver concealed is a great idea, at least not for me.

However I have been lugging my Colts around in CAS for close to twenty years now and the hammers have never poked me in the side, through all ranges of motion. I don't worry about the triggers being exposed either.

**OldMarksman** · February 22, 2018, 12:03 PM

Quote:

There can be many reasons why a person would choose to carry a single action for defense.

There are few if any really viable reasons for choosing one for concealed carry, which was the original topic, for defense against humans, if there are other choices.

To say so is by no means an ad hominem attack. Attributing a decision to do so to vanity would not always be appropriate; ignorance would be a better choice of words.

Post #49 provides one approach to clarifying the issue, but an in-depth study of handgun wounding mechanics should also serve to eliminate some of he misconceptions on this subject.

There is a lot of folklore, and a lot of romance in the collecting and shooting of single action revolvers, and the do have real uses in some applications, but concealed carry for lawful defense against humans is not among them.

We recall that the popularity of Western movies and TV shows were the impetus for the resurrection of single action revolver production after WWII.

Siggy-06 · February 22, 2018, 12:18 PM

A Ruger Single-Seven with a birdshead grip, bisley hammer, and 3.5 in barrel would be awesome.

peterg7 · February 22, 2018, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Real Gun

I should have noted also that single action holsters are typically made to fit rather wide belts, more than one would use in common pants belt loops. Threepersons is better in that regard. 2 1/4" is standard from El Paso Saddlery but narrower on request.

Another point is that with a higher carrying holster, it is best to keep the barrel length pretty short so you don't have to lift as high to clear the holster.

This holster is made for 1-1/2” belt, I chose it over a three persons because a Blackhawk is a heavy gun and even though I use a gun belt I wanted to spread the weight.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

darkgael · February 22, 2018, 12:27 PM

Pure vanity? While there may be some truth to that, vanity is beside the point.
The question is: does it work?

Sharkbite · February 22, 2018, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Hmmm...double action alone does not make a gun the best tool.

I never said it was.

Rapid follow up shots without having to break your firing grip (either 1 or 2 handed).
No intricate movements (thumbing back the hammer) to prep the gun for EVERY shot
Low capicity and the unrealistic ability to reload in a timely fashion.

There is a reason SA revolvers were replaced as sidearms over a century ago. They have simply been surpassed as the most effective tools for the job.

Can you still build a house with a hand cranked drill and hand saw? Sure, is it the most efficient way to get the job done? NO

moosemike · February 22, 2018, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Carrying a SA revolver in the 21st century is pure vanity

Yup

shafter · February 22, 2018, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Can you still build a house with a hand cranked drill and hand saw? Sure, is it the most efficient way to get the job done? NO

You can give a guy all the modern tools there but unless he's skilled in their use he won't be able to build you a house, whereas the craftsman with his old hand tools can build a showplace.

I've noticed that guys who shoot single actions tend to shoot them a lot, as in ALOT. There are folks here who have round counts in the tens of thousands per firearm. All single actions. How many can come even close with their pocket pistols? Not many.

I don't think anyone questions that firearm technology has evolved over the years to give us a better fighting tool. However there is more to winning a fight than having the best tool. Practice, skill, and mindset all take precedence. If you took a top single action six gunner and took him back in time and gave him a Glock or a double action revolver and had him apply the same amount of practice then I believe he would be better prepared for a fight.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I would never recommend a single action to a new shooter as a weapon of choice for self defense. But, I believe that those who for whatever reason have developed years of experience and put tens of thousands of rounds downrange through their sixguns, and developed an intimate familiarity with them, are very much prepared to defend themselves with them. More so than those who put a few boxes a year through their pocket gun.

Laz · February 22, 2018, 04:29 PM

I’ve enjoyed reading this thread and though I’m no great skilled pistolero I thought I would add that over the years my handgun shooting and collecting has evolved more and more into single action revolvers simply because I just like them and handgun shooting is first of all a pleasurable hobby. Self defense is an important but honestly secondary reason I buy and shoot handguns. It makes sense to try to defend myself with what I like to shoot the most, whenever that makes sense. I don’t use a SA for concealed carry mostly because they are generally too large for me to successfully carry them concealed with any comfort. I’m not a large man. My lifestyle and circumstances call for a degree of discretion they cannot provide. Lack of a reasonably fast reload is another, but secondary concern. I do have a couple modern, higher capacity semi auto handguns for home defense and potential carry but honestly at home I rely most often on my SA revolvers because I am familiar with them; I trust them; they are readily available; and, at home there is no reason I cannot have a second or even a third SA revolver near at hand to solve any reloading issue. As people often point out, at home a handgun is primarily a means to defend myself until I can reach a long gun, at least in a best case scenario, which likely won’t happen that way. At least with a SA revolver I will not be reduced to cowering and begging for mercy. I don’t expect ninjas or trained commandos to attack my home.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 22, 2018, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxonPig

Success stories? The only success stories about carrying a SA revolver would be those where the gun was never needed. Foolish to carry a SA revolver. Not even a good 4th choice.

Not true. There was an incident a couple of years ago in which a convenience store robber was taken on by a customer who was armed with an Italian reproduction cowboy six-gun. The customer won. I'd call that a success story.

The reason I remember the story is that the customer hit the floor when the lead started flying, and apparently bent the trigger guard on his gun so the trigger wouldn't move. He stayed in the fight by slipfiring.

Real Gun · February 22, 2018, 06:35 PM

There is nothing that would disqualify the single action from concealed carry except, on a personal basis, its typical size and ones ability to holster and conceal it. Kind of amusing to read those trying to bulldoze the topic, while a 5-shot 38 Special with toned down ammo and no reload, somewhere stuck in a pocket, is the Holy Grail of concealed carry.

Model12Win · February 22, 2018, 06:38 PM

I think there's not much wrong with it, really.

We all know the old adage, "it's the Indian, not the arrow".

Have you seen what some of those CAS people can do with a single action revolver?? Look, it might not have the capacity or reload speed that some desire, and it probably is not a good choice for a lawman (they must run toward danger, you know), but in my readings and analysis of statistics on civilian self defense shooting, I have come to think someone such as member Bob Wright who posted above or anyone else hear that is well versed with the single action revolver and "knows their ways" is very well armed.

You can't beat the reliability, they can be extremely accurate, with a quick thumb they can be fired nearly as fast as a double action, and they have the advantages of different power levels and bullet profiles inherent in all revolvers. Some wickedly good .45 Colt defensive loads these days, or count that for any centerfire caliber that can in a single action be had. 5 shots in a classic SAA or 6 in a Ruger are more than enough in most cases, going by the numbers.

So if it works for the carrier, and they've got the skill set to use it with effectiveness, they are MUCH better armed than the man without any gun and will probably be fine with them and they have as much my respect as any other responsible and legal carrier.

Sharkbite · February 22, 2018, 06:40 PM

Quote:

5-shot 38 Special with toned down ammo and no reload, somewhere stuck in a pocket, is the Holy Grail of concealed carry.

Not by anyone i know (or that takes the topic seriously)

pete2 · February 22, 2018, 07:57 PM

I would carry the new .327 Ruger SA , funds don't allow it at the moment. Every carry gun doesn't have to hold 18 rounds and be made of plastic.
I don't carry a handgun to get me out of a fire fight. In a fire fight with multiple attackers you need a machine gun.

tallball · February 22, 2018, 08:27 PM

I am middle-aged. I have probably shot more rounds through SA revolvers than any other kind of firearm. I generally shoot them better than any other kind of handgun. I don't CC them because I prefer a DA revolver in case of being suddenly grabbed in a mugging attempt.

However, I certainly wouldn't feel unarmed if carrying one.

Paul105 · February 22, 2018, 09:50 PM

"For years my main load in the Colt look-a-likes for the 45, was 18+ grains of Herc 2400 under the Keith 260 grain cast bullet. I took wild boar, feral pigs, black bear, deer, feral dogs, and much, much more, with that load. I ran into the darndest situation in Richmond Virginia while packing that first 45 Colt clone in the early 1970s. Three idiots decided to hold up the bank I was in one day. Three shots from my 45 single action later, hold up was over, surrender was at the top of their list...and I had killed their car. Thinking back I never felt under gunned...and I never worried about reloading speed and all that stuff you read about. I knew the power of that load, and my ability and accuracy."

Paco Kelly - Special Handguns I Have Known
http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/special_handguns.htm

Hawg · February 22, 2018, 10:05 PM

Quote:

I've noticed that guys who shoot single actions tend to shoot them a lot, as in ALOT. There are folks here who have round counts in the tens of thousands per firearm. All single actions. How many can come even close with their pocket pistols? Not many.

I started shooting SA's in 1967. I have shot many of them a lot more than a lot. I only own two DA revolvers and I can count the times they've both been fired DA on one hand with fingers left over. I have one semi auto. I've only had it for about six years and have probably only put 5000 rounds or so through it. It is my first choice for carry but I would be right at home and not feel under gunned with a SA.

The Kingfish · February 22, 2018, 10:55 PM

I'll bet some of the folks commenting have never seen Bob Munden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsU5AMxvlKg

NateKirk · February 22, 2018, 11:16 PM

There's a difference between target and competition shooting and defensive shooting.

warnerwh · February 23, 2018, 03:10 AM

In 98% of defensive situations 6 rounds is more than enough. I'm far more confident with a revolver than a semi however I carry a Glock 43 not because it holds more rounds and is faster to reload but because it is slim and light. With a 5 shot .357 I would actually feel more confident with but they are too bulky for me as I'm smaller than average and need the slimness of a semi auto. If I need to shoot though I'd rather have a revolver in my hands.
I can certainly understand someone being most confident with a single action and more likely to make good hits too, something most people with semi autos aren't great at. I am referring to the average people on the streets that carry not people here who shoot thousands of rounds a year. Bad guys fall into that unskilled category too.

February 22, 2018, 12:18 PM	#58
Siggy-06 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 1,148	A Ruger Single-Seven with a birdshead grip, bisley hammer, and 3.5 in barrel would be awesome. __________________ Flicks just like a lighter, just a different kind of fire.

February 22, 2018, 12:27 PM	#60
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Pure vanity? While there may be some truth to that, vanity is beside the point. The question is: does it work? __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

February 22, 2018, 04:29 PM	#64
Laz Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 1999 Posts: 1,278	I’ve enjoyed reading this thread and though I’m no great skilled pistolero I thought I would add that over the years my handgun shooting and collecting has evolved more and more into single action revolvers simply because I just like them and handgun shooting is first of all a pleasurable hobby. Self defense is an important but honestly secondary reason I buy and shoot handguns. It makes sense to try to defend myself with what I like to shoot the most, whenever that makes sense. I don’t use a SA for concealed carry mostly because they are generally too large for me to successfully carry them concealed with any comfort. I’m not a large man. My lifestyle and circumstances call for a degree of discretion they cannot provide. Lack of a reasonably fast reload is another, but secondary concern. I do have a couple modern, higher capacity semi auto handguns for home defense and potential carry but honestly at home I rely most often on my SA revolvers because I am familiar with them; I trust them; they are readily available; and, at home there is no reason I cannot have a second or even a third SA revolver near at hand to solve any reloading issue. As people often point out, at home a handgun is primarily a means to defend myself until I can reach a long gun, at least in a best case scenario, which likely won’t happen that way. At least with a SA revolver I will not be reduced to cowering and begging for mercy. I don’t expect ninjas or trained commandos to attack my home. __________________ Laz I’m just a nobody, trying to tell everybody, about Somebody, who can save anybody.

February 22, 2018, 06:35 PM	#66
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	There is nothing that would disqualify the single action from concealed carry except, on a personal basis, its typical size and ones ability to holster and conceal it. Kind of amusing to read those trying to bulldoze the topic, while a 5-shot 38 Special with toned down ammo and no reload, somewhere stuck in a pocket, is the Holy Grail of concealed carry. __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

February 22, 2018, 11:16 PM	#74
NateKirk Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2013 Location: Detroit Posts: 435	There's a difference between target and competition shooting and defensive shooting. __________________ “Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".” ― --Thomas Jefferson

February 22, 2018, 11:35 AM	#55
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I met a deputy sheriff that carried a Uberti Cattleman as a duty weapon.

February 22, 2018, 06:38 PM	#67
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	I think there's not much wrong with it, really. We all know the old adage, "it's the Indian, not the arrow". Have you seen what some of those CAS people can do with a single action revolver?? Look, it might not have the capacity or reload speed that some desire, and it probably is not a good choice for a lawman (they must run toward danger, you know), but in my readings and analysis of statistics on civilian self defense shooting, I have come to think someone such as member Bob Wright who posted above or anyone else hear that is well versed with the single action revolver and "knows their ways" is very well armed. You can't beat the reliability, they can be extremely accurate, with a quick thumb they can be fired nearly as fast as a double action, and they have the advantages of different power levels and bullet profiles inherent in all revolvers. Some wickedly good .45 Colt defensive loads these days, or count that for any centerfire caliber that can in a single action be had. 5 shots in a classic SAA or 6 in a Ruger are more than enough in most cases, going by the numbers. So if it works for the carrier, and they've got the skill set to use it with effectiveness, they are MUCH better armed than the man without any gun and will probably be fine with them and they have as much my respect as any other responsible and legal carrier.

February 22, 2018, 07:57 PM	#69
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I would carry the new .327 Ruger SA , funds don't allow it at the moment. Every carry gun doesn't have to hold 18 rounds and be made of plastic. I don't carry a handgun to get me out of a fire fight. In a fire fight with multiple attackers you need a machine gun.

February 22, 2018, 08:27 PM	#70
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	I am middle-aged. I have probably shot more rounds through SA revolvers than any other kind of firearm. I generally shoot them better than any other kind of handgun. I don't CC them because I prefer a DA revolver in case of being suddenly grabbed in a mugging attempt. However, I certainly wouldn't feel unarmed if carrying one.

February 22, 2018, 09:50 PM	#71
Paul105 Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 343	"For years my main load in the Colt look-a-likes for the 45, was 18+ grains of Herc 2400 under the Keith 260 grain cast bullet. I took wild boar, feral pigs, black bear, deer, feral dogs, and much, much more, with that load. I ran into the darndest situation in Richmond Virginia while packing that first 45 Colt clone in the early 1970s. Three idiots decided to hold up the bank I was in one day. Three shots from my 45 single action later, hold up was over, surrender was at the top of their list...and I had killed their car. Thinking back I never felt under gunned...and I never worried about reloading speed and all that stuff you read about. I knew the power of that load, and my ability and accuracy." Paco Kelly - Special Handguns I Have Known http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/special_handguns.htm

February 22, 2018, 10:55 PM	#73
The Kingfish Member Join Date: February 26, 2017 Posts: 32	I'll bet some of the folks commenting have never seen Bob Munden. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsU5AMxvlKg

February 23, 2018, 03:10 AM	#75
warnerwh Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2009 Posts: 329	In 98% of defensive situations 6 rounds is more than enough. I'm far more confident with a revolver than a semi however I carry a Glock 43 not because it holds more rounds and is faster to reload but because it is slim and light. With a 5 shot .357 I would actually feel more confident with but they are too bulky for me as I'm smaller than average and need the slimness of a semi auto. If I need to shoot though I'd rather have a revolver in my hands. I can certainly understand someone being most confident with a single action and more likely to make good hits too, something most people with semi autos aren't great at. I am referring to the average people on the streets that carry not people here who shoot thousands of rounds a year. Bad guys fall into that unskilled category too. __________________ Portland, Or