Switching from Semi-Auto to S&W 642

[Guv]

642 is a fine gun, I have 2.
I also have a 637 and at 15yds shoot it better DA than SA.

[Bill DeShivs]

Practice is all it takes. Shoot the gun double action.
Don't make the mistake of thinking the gun isn't accurate. It is.
Don't make excuses for your inability to shoot it.
The 2" guns are every bit as accurate as a 4" or 6" gun.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Ditto on practice. There are folks like Claude Werner who teaches an excellent snubby class. Also, if you compete in something like IDPA - get out with the gun. I do periodically with my J frames.

You are not there to win but try to use the gun in something more than the square range.

[OldMarksman]

The trigger pull makes it most difficult to shoot with the rapidity of controlled fire (combat accuracy at 12-15 feet, moving target) that one should have for self defense.

The five shot capacity works against it, too.

Put one down next to a small but shootable semi auto with a good grip--such as a Ruger SR9c--and you will likely be surprised at how large the J Frame revolver is.

And there is no comparison in terms of effectiveness.

Some of us do like to carry a small .38 revolver from time to time, however. I got rid of my J Frame, and I now have a Kimber K6. Much better trigger, and a sixth shot.

[OldMarksman]

3 shots.
3 yards.
3 seconds.

That's all you'll ever need. As long as you can keep all shots (3 shots fired in 3 seconds) on a paper plate from 3 yards away, you'll be golden.

Where on earth did you dome up with that idea?

If you start shooting at a target moving toward you from three yards away at five yards per second, you won't have three seconds for your little scenario.

[pelican]

There might be some useful information on snub nose shooting technique on The Snubnose Files website

.http://www.snubnose.info/docs/Making_Jframe_work.htm

[Water-Man]

"Rome wasn't built in a day" and it takes even longer to become proficient with a snubby.

I've been carrying one since 1968, so I speak with some experience. There's a few tricks of the trade which you can find on the internet, but mostly it's practice, practice, practice.

[UncleEd]

Old Marksman asks where did the

3 shots
3 yards
3 seconds

come from. I didn't post that
"3" trilogy but it comes from
the FBI's course of handgun
fire/training. It involves starting
with the gun holstered.

The FBI teaches a lot of close-in
handgun craft. The agency's
experience shows that close-in
is what's happened in most
gun fights.

While the training includes 25 yard
shooting most of it stresses 15 yards
and under along with both strong and
weak hand firing.

[jetinteriorguy]

I've been shooting revolvers for over 30 years and will only speak from my personal experience. I spent a lot of time trying to learn how to stage the trigger, and never really could get the hang of it for any kind of fast consistent shooting. It always seemed like at least one or two shots in a cylinder I would set a round off too easy and the shot would be off. Finally I just started by using a nice consistent straight pull through and voila, pretty soon I was shooting nice consistent groups of about 3" at 10 yards.

[Don P]

The 642 with the heavy long trigger pull, minimal sights, tiny grips and light weight is one of the worst revolvers available for accurate shooting at 15 - 25yards. Very few shooters will be able to fire a 642 anywhere near the level of something like a Glock at very close distances let alone 15 - 25 yards

This statement is pure horse fertilizer.

The snub guns are very accurate, if you do your part

Bingo! Bill is absolutely correct. Practice, practice, and practice some more.
223, I would gladly go head to head with you shooting my snub nose verses your Glock

[OldMarksman]

Yes, and most civilian defensive training concentrates on the same thing.

However, the nonsensical "3 shots 3 yards 3 seconds" poppycock does not "come from" anything other than folklore.

The only target that will provide the opportunity to fire a handgun at it for three seconds at three yards is a stationary one.

Agents and students shoot much more rapidly than what would be necessary to score three hits in three seconds, and the rate of fire depends upon the distance.

[223 shooter]

223, I would gladly go head to head with you shooting my snub nose verses your Glock

For starters I don't have Glock , the original poster said he that is what he had experience with. If I did have a Glock and you have a 642 I would certainly you up on that offer.

But I do have a Smith Shield 45 , Sig P239 9mm and Walther PPK/S 380 and it is not terribly difficult to keep the shots in a 12" x 18" Dirty Bird silhouette target at 50 yards. Lets see what your 642 will do at 50 yards.

I fired a snub revolver in a bullseye pistol league and did fairly well with it but it was a K-Frame 66 with target sights.

Practice is all it takes. Shoot the gun double action.

Well considering the 642 only fires double action that advice is easy to follow.

[UncleEd]

Old Marksman,

The 3-3-3 is but an example of the qualification
run and certainly an attacker might even be within
9 feet of you, but the training may still allow you to
get off at least one or two shots.

Or are you saying that all assailants are expected
to stay more than 3 yards from you at all times?

Of course no one can take any training course as the
end-all of what's going to happen.

However, it doesn't seem unreasonable that after
drawing the gun from concealment a proficient shot
could still get off three shots in a second or less,
even if that means pumping one or two slugs at
nearly or contact distances.

[briandg]

I'm going to say the obvious, and try not to get weird about it. Your performance with a snub is 100% a matter of skill. a snub is not inaccurate, people just generally can't shoot them well, and in almost every case, increasing the barrel length can increase a person's ability for accuracy. GENERALLY SPEAKING. If you are good enough and practice, practice, and develop a feel for it, you can get good results. Not as good as you would with other, more practical guns, but a person can get very good "combat" accuracy. if you can get six inch circles at 50 feet, is that good enough to stop an attacker? You can do that with your pistol.



Learn how to keep your pistol as an extension of your hand. Learn how to find the front sight and line it up, that isn't too hard, even with the groove sight. Most importantly, learn how to smoothly run that trigger to the end of the cycle, not snap it back, or try to stage it. Pulllllllllll... It takes some skill, but the smith is better for that. Building your forearm strength may be the best thing that you can do. the second most important thing you can do is to learn how to isolate that finger from your hand.

Make a fist. carefully rock that trigger finger back and forth, smoothly, slowly, without moving any other part of your arm. Practice that. work on that. Unless you can handle your trigger finger without weaving your arm around, you won't be able to fire a DA revolver without tossing your rounds everywhere.

Last, but not least, set your desires and goals realistically. Can you make center of chest hits over and over and over with your pistol at thirty feet, twenty or less? In a home, a restaurant, in a street, you will be firing at between thirty and fifty feet at the most, right? if you can hit that chest reliably, you have reached a reasonable goal. Keep trying to do better, but you can be satisfied with raising your skill level to defensive combat level.

Something that you can do that really helps is to find various members of your range and test them out. "hey, would you mind running a few rounds through this and let me know what you think?" I do that all of the time. I can pretty much determine whether the guy's skill level is good, and how well these six or so test subjects should perform. If NOBODY can shoot it well it proves that the thing just can't be shot well by seven out of seven testers. sometimes I hand over my gun and learn that neither the ammo nor the gun are off, that I'm just performing badly that day. Having visual problems and a constant tremor, it's hard to tell why my groups may have opened up.

[briandg]

Something to consider is that your trigger isn't always the most important factor of how well you will shoot, it's all about how well you use it. Since the DA pull is second nature to me, a long, rolling pull that I am used to, when I fire single action with those same revolvers, I usually don't do as well. I have trouble touching off that tick. It's nothing but a neuro problem.

[OldMarksman]

The 3-3-3 is but an example of the qualification run....

I don't think so. It doesn't make sense.

...and certainly an attacker might even be within 9 feet of you, ...

Yes indeed. Not unlikely at all.

Or are you saying that all assailants are expected to stay more than 3 yards from you at all times?

Of course not.

However, it doesn't seem unreasonable that after drawing the gun from concealment a proficient shot could still get off three shots in a second or less, even if that means pumping one or two slugs at nearly or contact distances.

Of course. The discussion was about three shots in three seconds. That might occur, but it would be extremely unlikely for a defender to be afforded that much time at a short distance.

People sometimes say 5, 5, and 5. Sometimes people interchange feet and yards. They often attribute the source to "the FBI".

If you perform the FBI drill, you will shoot at varying distances, often very rapidly, often firing many more than three times.

[UncleEd]

Briandg,

Good points all.

[OldMarksman]

Regarding distance, of the sixty-plus actual civilian defensive shooing incidents described by Tom Givens in Chapter 7 of Straight Talk on Armed Defense, 92 percent took place between three and seven yards, and 5 percent took place at greater than seven yards.

That leaves 3 percent at "arms length or shorter".

That is an extremely small data sample. It may serve to illustrate the probable range of distances, but that's about it.

One thing to consider: a person will rarely really constitute an identifiable imminent threat to another unless the distance is short; the defender will not have drawn before the threat is presented; and assuming that the attacker is attacking, the time it takes to recognize the threat and to draw and fire at an attacker will likely leave very little distance.

Yet we do see numerous people practicing against stationary targets at a distance of seven yards.

Regarding the number of shots, a defender will likely be best served by firing until the threat stops attacking. No one can say in advance what might be needed, but averages don't matter at all.

[tallball]

It just takes time and practice. I am not a great handgun shooter, but after decades of practice I can shoot a J frame quite well at seven yards and reasonably well at 15. Like other posters have said, they are inherently as accurate as longer-barreled revolvers. It's the short sight radius and stiffer triggers that make them challenging. If the shooter does his part, they will do theirs.

[youngridge]

I really wanted a 642...changed my mind when I got to my LGS and he had a 638, bobbed hammer. So I have both options. For starters like many said, dry fire and learn then the trigger hammer breaks, deep fingers(sounds weird) are your friend with a DA only revolver. That was my biggest adjustment for me. Going from a crisp Glock trigger to the long DA was a big adjustment. I added CT laser grips on mine awhile ago...they work fairly well, not a must. Lots of practice.

Best of luck!


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[JC57]

I had a S&W model 60 J-frame in the 80s that I shot very poorly, compared to how well I shot K-frame revolvers at the time.

I bought a 642 a few years ago, and I paid a little extra for a version that was factory tuned by S&W. That one has proven to be quite accurate and a good little shooter, though I still prefer my 2" Model 64 K-frame.

[In The Ten Ring]

I've had three instances where men have threatened my safety and/or demanded money stateside. None of those happened beyond 7 yards and one was about 1.5 yards.

[Danoobie]

Maybe you just need to get a larger set of grips for your 642, OP.
Hogue and a host of others make oversize grips, IIRC.

[In The Ten Ring]

I don't like the feel of my CTC laser grips for my Airweight, but I can still shoot it well, and that laser sight sure comes in handy at night!

[briandg]

It's a good point to know that shootings don't often occur at longer ranges.

Once in a while, take an entire day, and every ten minutes or so, do a tactical sweep of your surroundings. Set a ten minute timer on your phone.

What is the longest distance (be reasonable) that you may be called upon to fire at?
Pick a random subject, then focus on that person. Can you find the target zone? Determine anything about that person? Can you be reasonably certain that the background is safe?
Are you in a situation in which you can easily acquire your handgun and use it during a crisis?

There are many other tests to make. You can't buy a gun and shootout circles or silhouettes and call yourself proficient. A person must also know how to engage. A day spent doing errands with your wife can provide you with fifty or so totally random situations to examine. Do so quietly and discreetly, I shouldn't have to explain that any further.

Wake up and have coffee. Longest possible shot, twenty feet, maybe two possible points of entry. Gun accessible?
Drive to grocery store. No data.
Walking through store. Twenty feet or more, random points of attack, no safe background. If your gun isn't accessible while at the grocery store, you're doing it wrong.
Gas station and store? Strip mall? Lunch at Applebee? Card shop at mall? Macy's? Picking up a bottle of wine?

Fifty or more opportunities to make a brief assessment of your safe tactical options. Then, you open your own front door and face a possible ambush by burglars who came in through the back.

Crime occurs at random times and places and it is good to examine your random moments. It adds a real life component to paper training.