Plunger tube fix?

4DIR · October 6, 2002, 12:24 AM

I have a 1911 that has developed a loose plunger tube. Its one of those things you never think will happen to you! I have never replaced one but have instructions in a shop manual. I thought about getting a staking tool from Brownells(they have a new tool for only 30 bucks), and doing it myself. Is there anything hard about installing a new one if you have the tool? Anything to keep in mind when doing the work? Thanks!

gunsmither · October 6, 2002, 02:15 AM

If your installing a new one, or re-staking the original one, make sure there is no debris in between the tube and the frame, so the tube goes all the way down on the frame.

Make sure you use the internal support pin from Brownells, or use tight fitting drill bits, to support the tube, to prevent distorting the plunger holes.

If you have the original removed, or pulled away far enough from the frame, it's a good idea to deepen the recess that you stake the rivets into.

This allows a wider area for the rivet to expand in.

Many factory guns don't have hardly any recess for rivet expansion, and this is a main cause of loosening in my experience; not being well staked in the first place.

An 1/8" round Carbide bur works well to deepen recess areas. Use at real slow speed in a drill motor. A Dremel is a bit to fast even at lowest speed for my liking.

I'd use some Permanent Type Locktight when you stake it. Don't forget to protect the finish.

Good luck- Joe

saands · October 8, 2002, 02:14 PM

I would second gunsmithers #2 point ... and then underline it and highlight it with red. Fill the plunger tube with something that fits well and protects the geometry from the inside!

I bought the $30 tool from Brownells and it woked acceptably, but I made the mistake of thinking that the "tube protector" that came with the tool was sufficient and that I didn't need to bother protecting it from the inside ... bad call

... fortunately the damage was minimal and was fixed with a drill, but if I hadn't been so lucky it would have been a REAL bear.

Other than the hints you have here, it is a pretty straight forward deal

Good Luck,
Saands

Ben Swenson · October 8, 2002, 05:19 PM

I'll probably be roasted for this, but you might consider regular super-glue as a temporary fix.

A friend of mine had an IAI 1911 start to lose it's plunger tube. Rather than buy a restaking tool, he brought it to me. I didn't know what to do about it so I put it to the fine folks on an M1911 email list (most of which suggested restaking) and a few said that super glue would work. We carefully glued it and wiped off the excess. Haven't had a problem yet. Yet. It really needs to be restaked, but it's not my gun ....

YMMV

4DIR · October 12, 2002, 06:20 PM

Many thanks for the replys. Especially appreciate the advice on the tube pin. I was going to leave that off. I was even advised by Brownells that it wasn't needed on that new tool. Nothing like the voice of experience!

Harry Bonar · January 22, 2005, 09:38 AM

Sir:
We silver solder all plunger tubes in on all of our combat 1911s'

Dave Sample · January 22, 2005, 03:11 PM

I have done a bunch of them but not the the way Harry does them. If you know how to stake them properly, they will last a very long time. Much advice has been given and most of it is good.
I use a small cutter to flare the holes inside the lower end. Then I clean that area with acetone and apply Green Loc-Tite 640 to the area under the plunge tube, set up the tool that was mentioned earlier, flare the rivets on the tube, using a filler that I have had for 20 years, and let it set over night.
I have no problem with Harry's method at all, but I have seen to many of them crushed by careless people and I want to be able to replace them without heat. I do not apply heat to any area of a 1911. I have never had one come off in 20 years, but that could change tonight!
I also use Mr. Dremel sometimes to flare the holes with a 1/8th carbide ball. WARNING: Do not try this at home! I am a Dremel Master!

James K · January 24, 2005, 11:56 PM

I staked those for years, and never used any kind of glue, silver solder, chewing gum, or prayer. None ever came off.

I notice now that some of the new after market ones just do not have long enough rivets to stake. These are pure rip offs made to sell to people who don't know what they should look like. I guess there is no answer on those except glue, solder, gum, or prayer. I wonder if Llama didn't have a better idea; their tunnel screws on.

Jim

Wallew · January 25, 2005, 01:20 AM

Super glue and silver solder both work great. Consider JB Weld also if approaching this problem from a non mechanical (ie staking it) approach.

Bogie · April 16, 2005, 10:24 AM

Hmpff...

Just got around to disassembling my "new" Series 70 (complete with 4-finger bushing), and the plunger tube FELL off...

Upon closer examination, it looks as if someone had "tried" to fix it in the past... It functioned just fine, until I took the slide off.

So...

New plunger tube? Or do you think I should reuse the original?

Order the jig from Brownells? Or whip out the superglue?

Dave Sample · April 16, 2005, 10:42 AM

Use a new one. I guess you don't have a smith that can do it near you. No Matter, most of them don't know how either. If you are going to all the trouble outlined here then I would do it right, but that is what it's like to be me. You are all ready a victim of half assed work.

Bogie · April 16, 2005, 11:14 AM

I agree - Methinx that I'm going to be spending a lot of time on this puppy... But that's what hobbies are for. If I do it myself, and take the time to learn how to do it right, then I'll know it's right.

Dave Sample · April 16, 2005, 11:55 AM

My Question to Bogie is: Who is going to teach you to do it right? A Book? A Video? De Shadow? Good Luck

Bogie · April 17, 2005, 12:00 AM

I'll probably be asking a whole buncha stupid questions on certain forums...

Jammer Six · April 17, 2005, 12:33 AM

It's easy.

Buy the tool from Brownell's, here, and don't forget to use the support and the block.

On mine, I needed to enlarge the groove a little with a round file so it would hit the frame at the same time it hit the tube, but that was easy, too.

If you decide to use locktite, degrease both the frame and the tube thoroughly with brake cleaner first.

It was the first thing I learned how to do to a 1911, and it's been the easiest. Have fun!

Dave Sample · April 17, 2005, 12:57 PM

Let me advise you why we use LocTite now on Plunger Tubes. The aftermarket parts that are used on most factory guns now have a very thin surface where it used to be thick. The edge of the thumb safety that rides on the rear plunger in the tube is too thin and tends to pry the tube off as it is used. All you have to do is take a close look at these parts and see how they mate up and you will begain to understand the problem, and the solution. It is also important to clean up this area with Acetone so the the Green 640 Loc-Tite will hold forever. I have never had one come loose in 20 years that I re did. There are other adhesives that will work as well or better, but I stick with the things I have success with. Colt had no idea how to stake a plunger tube on back then. Perhaps they do now.

October 6, 2002, 12:24 AM	#1
4DIR Member Join Date: September 8, 2001 Posts: 90	Plunger tube fix? I have a 1911 that has developed a loose plunger tube. Its one of those things you never think will happen to you! I have never replaced one but have instructions in a shop manual. I thought about getting a staking tool from Brownells(they have a new tool for only 30 bucks), and doing it myself. Is there anything hard about installing a new one if you have the tool? Anything to keep in mind when doing the work? Thanks!

January 22, 2005, 09:38 AM	#6
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	re-plunger tube Sir: We silver solder all plunger tubes in on all of our combat 1911s'

April 16, 2005, 10:24 AM	#10
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	Hmpff... Just got around to disassembling my "new" Series 70 (complete with 4-finger bushing), and the plunger tube FELL off... Upon closer examination, it looks as if someone had "tried" to fix it in the past... It functioned just fine, until I took the slide off. So... New plunger tube? Or do you think I should reuse the original? Order the jig from Brownells? Or whip out the superglue? __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

April 16, 2005, 11:14 AM	#12
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	I agree - Methinx that I'm going to be spending a lot of time on this puppy... But that's what hobbies are for. If I do it myself, and take the time to learn how to do it right, then I'll know it's right. __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

April 17, 2005, 12:00 AM	#14
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	I'll probably be asking a whole buncha stupid questions on certain forums... __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

October 6, 2002, 02:15 AM	#2
gunsmither Member Join Date: July 19, 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 35	If your installing a new one, or re-staking the original one, make sure there is no debris in between the tube and the frame, so the tube goes all the way down on the frame. Make sure you use the internal support pin from Brownells, or use tight fitting drill bits, to support the tube, to prevent distorting the plunger holes. If you have the original removed, or pulled away far enough from the frame, it's a good idea to deepen the recess that you stake the rivets into. This allows a wider area for the rivet to expand in. Many factory guns don't have hardly any recess for rivet expansion, and this is a main cause of loosening in my experience; not being well staked in the first place. An 1/8" round Carbide bur works well to deepen recess areas. Use at real slow speed in a drill motor. A Dremel is a bit to fast even at lowest speed for my liking. I'd use some Permanent Type Locktight when you stake it. Don't forget to protect the finish. Good luck- Joe

October 8, 2002, 02:14 PM	#3
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	I would second gunsmithers #2 point ... and then underline it and highlight it with red. Fill the plunger tube with something that fits well and protects the geometry from the inside! I bought the $30 tool from Brownells and it woked acceptably, but I made the mistake of thinking that the "tube protector" that came with the tool was sufficient and that I didn't need to bother protecting it from the inside ... bad call ... fortunately the damage was minimal and was fixed with a drill, but if I hadn't been so lucky it would have been a REAL bear. Other than the hints you have here, it is a pretty straight forward deal Good Luck, Saands

October 8, 2002, 05:19 PM	#4
Ben Swenson Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2000 Posts: 1,210	I'll probably be roasted for this, but you might consider regular super-glue as a temporary fix. A friend of mine had an IAI 1911 start to lose it's plunger tube. Rather than buy a restaking tool, he brought it to me. I didn't know what to do about it so I put it to the fine folks on an M1911 email list (most of which suggested restaking) and a few said that super glue would work. We carefully glued it and wiped off the excess. Haven't had a problem yet. Yet. It really needs to be restaked, but it's not my gun .... YMMV

October 12, 2002, 06:20 PM	#5
4DIR Member Join Date: September 8, 2001 Posts: 90	Many thanks for the replys. Especially appreciate the advice on the tube pin. I was going to leave that off. I was even advised by Brownells that it wasn't needed on that new tool. Nothing like the voice of experience!

January 22, 2005, 03:11 PM	#7
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	I have done a bunch of them but not the the way Harry does them. If you know how to stake them properly, they will last a very long time. Much advice has been given and most of it is good. I use a small cutter to flare the holes inside the lower end. Then I clean that area with acetone and apply Green Loc-Tite 640 to the area under the plunge tube, set up the tool that was mentioned earlier, flare the rivets on the tube, using a filler that I have had for 20 years, and let it set over night. I have no problem with Harry's method at all, but I have seen to many of them crushed by careless people and I want to be able to replace them without heat. I do not apply heat to any area of a 1911. I have never had one come off in 20 years, but that could change tonight! I also use Mr. Dremel sometimes to flare the holes with a 1/8th carbide ball. WARNING: Do not try this at home! I am a Dremel Master!

January 24, 2005, 11:56 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I staked those for years, and never used any kind of glue, silver solder, chewing gum, or prayer. None ever came off. I notice now that some of the new after market ones just do not have long enough rivets to stake. These are pure rip offs made to sell to people who don't know what they should look like. I guess there is no answer on those except glue, solder, gum, or prayer. I wonder if Llama didn't have a better idea; their tunnel screws on. Jim

January 25, 2005, 01:20 AM	#9
Wallew Junior member Join Date: October 3, 1999 Posts: 910	Super glue and silver solder both work great. Consider JB Weld also if approaching this problem from a non mechanical (ie staking it) approach.

April 16, 2005, 10:42 AM	#11
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	Use a new one. I guess you don't have a smith that can do it near you. No Matter, most of them don't know how either. If you are going to all the trouble outlined here then I would do it right, but that is what it's like to be me. You are all ready a victim of half assed work.

April 16, 2005, 11:55 AM	#13
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	My Question to Bogie is: Who is going to teach you to do it right? A Book? A Video? De Shadow? Good Luck

April 17, 2005, 12:33 AM	#15
Jammer Six Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 827	It's easy. Buy the tool from Brownell's, here, and don't forget to use the support and the block. On mine, I needed to enlarge the groove a little with a round file so it would hit the frame at the same time it hit the tube, but that was easy, too. If you decide to use locktite, degrease both the frame and the tube thoroughly with brake cleaner first. It was the first thing I learned how to do to a 1911, and it's been the easiest. Have fun! __________________ "Huh?" --Jammer Six, 1998

April 17, 2005, 12:57 PM	#16
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	Let me advise you why we use LocTite now on Plunger Tubes. The aftermarket parts that are used on most factory guns now have a very thin surface where it used to be thick. The edge of the thumb safety that rides on the rear plunger in the tube is too thin and tends to pry the tube off as it is used. All you have to do is take a close look at these parts and see how they mate up and you will begain to understand the problem, and the solution. It is also important to clean up this area with Acetone so the the Green 640 Loc-Tite will hold forever. I have never had one come loose in 20 years that I re did. There are other adhesives that will work as well or better, but I stick with the things I have success with. Colt had no idea how to stake a plunger tube on back then. Perhaps they do now.