Rail light/night sights

[nanney1]

If you keep a nightstand gun for home defenese, and run a rail light, is there any reason to also have night sights?

[2damnold4this]

Having night sights on the firearm might help you find the firearm in the dark.

[smee78]

I think the night sights help set the sights apart from the bright white light shining forward. Mandatory, no but helpful yes. I also agree it helps to see where the guns are in the dark, two of my guns were sitting out on top of the safe and I could see them sitting in holsters across the room.

[Tom-R2]

I had night sights on my used Glock 23C when I bought it. I sent it off to have an RMR attached and the slide refinished. I had new suppressor night sights installed. It does make it much easier to locate it in the middle of the night. It also quickly directs me to the red dot. But I still need to be able to make out any target, so somewhere I need to have enough light to see. I don't have a rail mounted light, but I do have a very bright LED flashlight right next to the pistol in the bedroom, or on my belt when I'm out and about.

[TunnelRat]

So a point with the light is it's not meant to be kept on, as lights like lasers work both ways. The point is to illuminate, scan, turn of the light, and relocate (you want to relocate every time you cast light, including after discharging the firearm). Identifying the target is the main goal (if you are using a weapon mounted light make sure you're using the spill of the beam to illuminate rather than the muzzle, flagging a family member is not a good thing). The one situation where I can see night sights being useful is shooting from a dimly lit location into a brightly lit location, such as from a dark room into an illuminated hall. In that case you don't need the light to identify your target and using the light would just pinpoint your location. I've also found that parking lots tend to have enough illumination for me to see a weapon without a light, but not enough to see sights without tritium. Both of these are pretty limited situations, so judge whether they matter to you. Assuming you have the money for both, I don't really see a negative with night sights (although be aware that if someone were behind you they may be able to see them too).

[Model12Win]

I like them on my Beretta 92A1 because I can look over and see exactly where the gun is and its orientation even in total darkness. But is it really needed if you also have a light? No, I don't think so. It is a nice thing to have though.

[Mackie244Bud]

Howdy,
Just a few thoughts...

One point made about lights on guns is that they let the other person(s) know exactly where you are.
Aim for the light!
I like the thought of a light better outside to light up a large area.
Inside I would think you would want to leave it off and when needed I would want a quick Strobe flashing light to disorient the other person.
Flashlight makers are already incorporating this security feature into their flashlights.
I have a small 380 lumen and a larger 1000 lumen "Costco" Duracell flashlight that has a fast flashing security feature.
It's blinding!

Another thought is that you know the interior of your home like the back of your hand. Think of a blind person.
I can walk to the kitchen in the dark if I want a glass of water and not bounce into anything.
Can someone who has never been inside your home do this?
A intruder does not know your home like someone that lives there everyday!
..they are there searching around for the first time.
I look at this as a advantage for you.
A bright light not only illuminates the point of origin "You" but it also lights up
the whole area allowing someone unfamiliar to now be very familiar.

I keep my Sig P320 RX in my bed next to me..(single -no kids)
It is amazing how bright the Sig Night Sights are!
I can look over and those 3 dots are very pronounced.
My thought is that if someone is in my house, I do not want them to know where I am.

I have heard things that go bump in the night and been startled enough that I have picked up my Sig and started through my house...
in the dark..no lights.
The first thing that I do is not turn on the lights.
As I move I will stand quiet, listen and look.
Also is your home always pitch black?

I really think that if I'm inside my home and when I do want lights,
I would want a very fast security strobe light to disorient and use my Night Sights and Red Dot to do the rest.
Talk about how great Co-Witnessing Night Sights and a Red Dot is in a situation like that!

Otherwise if you just want lights in your home why not make your home a "Smart Home" and with a remote and the touch of a button,
ALL of your lights inside and out immediately come on.

Just my thoughts...

Mackie244 / Bud

[TunnelRat]

I’d like to make a note on identifying your target. As was mentioned lights do lead back to you, but again I’d point out the goal is not to leave it on while searching. You illuminate to scan and then move. This is not meant to be a slow process. It’s a quick sweep with the light to identity something you think looks or sounds out of place (if the other person learns the layout of a room in the less than a second I’m talking about then you’re dealing with one hell of a person). I will also add that going from darkness to say 800 lumens, as many lights put out now, can certainly be disorienting by itself, especially if that other person’s eyes have adjusted to the darkness.

Now a single person certainly has less concerns than those living with others. However, just because someone is in your house doesn’t mean you can (depending on your state laws) or should start to shoot them. There are drunks and thieves that will often be scared off by sounds and anyone confronting them. You also might be able to hold them at bay while waiting for police. The goal is not to create casualties if possible. From a legal standpoint there is an advantage in saying yes you illuminated the suspect and yes you confirmed he or she had a weapon in his or her hands. This isn’t just for the criminal aspect of a shooting, as your laws may well protect you in that case. Whether justified or not there often can be a civil lawsuit front that person or family members. Showing a degree of due diligence can certainly help you there in the event you do have to shoot someone.

Now absolutely use the knowledge of your house’s layout to your advantage to minimize your light usage. My point is simply because you’re single your responsibility to identify a target doesn’t disappear, and doing so may well make the aftermath easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mackie244Bud]

The one thing about a Security Flashing light is that for someone behind the light it is VERY easy to see
if it's flashing on the Kids, Grandma the Dog or an intruder!
However for the person in front of it, it is disorientating.
If it's Grandma though make sure that she does not fall down from it. LOL

Try it yourself..
In a dark environment stand and have someone turn it on you....
See what you think.
Then you swap places and see that you can easily see who it is flashing on.
I'm not saying flash and fire!
You still as always need to recognize what and who you are firing on!

I'm also not so sure about the flash of light as you search..It again lets a intruder know exactly where you are.
Ever seen someone going through a house with a flashlight.

Some Gun lights these days do have Security Flashing Strobes.
Also which is better..A gun mounted light or a separate handheld light.
I do not know of any gun mounted lights capable of 800 lumens.
Hold on... I stand corrected..here is one on Amazon that has 800 lumens and a flashing strobe..
I may have to look at getting one of these!

https://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-W.../dp/B00B8Q31UQ

Review of Lights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsaxyeXzI2U

Home Search:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNcrysTdKKc

Another thought: Flashlight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiI6diEamUY

Weapon Mounted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxuVHSmXSn4

I'll be honest my above is in theory as I have not tryed this.
I will try both options in my home..
Light off and then strobe
Flash light search and solid on.
I am never set in any one theory but what works...I can always learn.

[TunnelRat]

I didn't say flash of light and solid on. I said flash of light to illuminate what you think is out of place or to scan a room when ambient is not enough. Again, less than a second of light. Assuming you have enough ambient light you can even just flash the light to identify a weapon, turn the light off and then engage if need be. That's why most lights have momentary on switches as well as constant on switches. We both agree you have to identify what you're aiming at, hence the need for illumination. Whether it's a flash of light from a strobe or from a regular beam light is going to lead back to you. As for knowing where you are, hence the need to relocate after every time you create light, whether from the light or muzzle flashes. Frankly I think the strobe is unnecessary, but do what you will. I've worked with lights under instruction in an full day course where we operated in the dark for practically all of it. That's what my comments are based on. That doesn't make me an expert nor does it make my suggestions the only way.

As for the videos, yes that's the Streamlight I own. Vickers typically has good advice and what he is showing is essentially what I thought my words were conveying. I would add that while it's a short video meant to demonstrate the lights, he's exposing the hell out of himself going through that house and isn't pieing those corners nearly as well as I know he can. As for weapon mounted vs. not, we've had multiple threads on that. There are pluses and minuses to both. Obviously with a weapon mounted light you have to worry about muzzling a loved one (I mentioned that in the first response). With a handheld light you can search independently of the light. However, weapon mounted lights let you use one hand. Maybe one hand is injured from the encounter. Maybe you're carrying a child or providing aid to a loved one. In those cases using both can be problematic. There's an interesting point here that a lot of people miss: why not have both? Weapon mounted lights add little weight to pistols generally and I actually find they help my shooting with the added weight out front. Use the handheld light primarily and then the weapon mounted if you need it.

With any of this stuff there are always multiple perspectives.

[Mackie244Bud]

I hear what you saying TunnelRat.

Makes sense.
Also you have been IN the scenario's and I have not.
That's what this forum is all about Share & Learn..Learn & Share.

Mackie244 / Bud

[TunnelRat]

I want to emphasize that a course and even force on force isn't the same as being shot at, and I have NOT been shot at. My plans may well fail in such a situation. I'm simply trying to give some explanation of why to do certain things. I've done enough courses now that I have had instructors say at times what are contradictory things. What do I do then? What I think all of us should do is consider options and decide what works best for us, and by that I mean our skill level, our equipment, and our homes. In my old apartment I had wide corridors, making a long gun easier to use. In my house now some corridors are narrow, making that hard. Think about what's being said, ask if it makes sense to you.

For instance, that video from Vickers talks about how you shouldn't hold the light away from you because then if the person jerks the trigger they'll jerk the trigger into you. However, he also says not to have the light close to your body because it illuminates you and gives a good aiming point. So in one scenario I have to compensate for my attacker having poor aim, and in the other scenario I have to accommodate for them having good aim. At the same time, the Harries technique while not next to your neck is out in front of your chest and were the person to shoot at the light next to the pistol with the pistol out at extension the light is practically in front of your upper thorax and your neck, basically the same spot. This isn't me saying Vickers is wrong. Vickers has more experience than I ever will. It's me saying you have to be objective about all of this. That's why I try not to treat individual trainers as gods and don't think of one technique as perfect. There are lots of perspectives out there.

[Mackie244Bud]

I agree, well said..

There's an interesting point here that a lot of people miss: why not have both? Weapon mounted lights add little weight to pistols generally and I actually find they help my shooting with the added weight out front. Use the handheld light primarily and then the weapon mounted if you need it.

Ya know I never thought of that and the videos don't say that.
The rail light is easily turned on or off with the hand holding the gun.
You could use the flashlight until a scenario merits that you use the rail light.
Best of both world scenarios.

[Rangerrich99]

How old are your eyes? Once a person passes 40 or so, your eyes start to be less capable of quickly adjusting to light changes or low light conditions, etc. That's from my eye doc. Hate it when he's right . . .

Just recently I took a couple low light classes and quickly discovered that even in light where I could pretty easily identify my targets (a pic of my instructor's face taped to a target vs. a random BG face), in some cases I had a hard time really seeing the stock sights very well.

I used the stock three-dot sights in the first class. Even at distances inside 15 yards this had an effect on my ability to quickly get the sights into the target zones I needed to, accuracy, and so forth. Muzzle flash exacerbated the problem by temporarily destroying my low light vision. This translated into several shots drifting outside my day light strike zone.

For the second class a few months later I had made the change to night sights and the results were dramatically more consisent.

It might be a good idea to take a low light class to better evaluate your eyes' actual ability to not only ID targets in low light at varied distances, but also how well your eyes really pick up your sights under those conditions combined with performance stressors.

Just my two cents . . .

[Mackie244Bud]

Rangerrich99,

For the second class a few months later I had made the change to night sights and the results were dramatically more consistent.

What would have been even more interesting is if you had added a Red Dot sight.
Red Dot's not only help sighting but also with aging eyes.

Mackie244/ Bud

[Siggy-06]

I'm in the category against weapon mounted lights, as others have said: bad guys will aim for the moving light, and that light will be right in front of yourself attached to your gun. Night sights, while cool, aren't necessary either. If it's too dark to identify the target, what good are the night sights? Also, contrast sights have been working for 100+ years just fine in wars, hunting, and sports. Keep a nice bright,compact flashlight next to your bed along with your HD gun.

[Mosin44az]

I go with a weapon-mounted light because it is much easier to control the gun if you have to shoot. This seems to me a crucial advantage. If you are holding the light in your off hand, you are either a one-handed shooter or using one of those awkward old flashlight techniques.

As for night sights, I don’t see any downside to putting them on a defense gun. They also help in lowlight situations where a flashlight isn’t required.

[Viper225]

My G38 has Night Sights, and I also have a weapon mounted light for it, as well as a Hi Lumen compact flash light.
When the weapon light is on the sights are very easy to pick up. Better than daylight more than likely.
Night sights are also very handy when in low light with your weapon mounted light off.
A compact flash light is also handy to illuminate things without pointing a weapon at them. All have a use.

In a home invasion situation, I do not plan on firing first until I have identified a threat. The wife and I live alone, however my brother lives near by and has some medical issues. We also have one son about 45 minutes away who could pop up unexpectedly. Identifying your intruder is priority ONE. Assess the situation, then react appropriately.

Bob R

[Big Shrek]

Just use Alexa to turn all the lights on and then laugh.

If that doesn't creep 'em out to where they're running out the door...