Blue Dot

dahermit · January 15, 2015, 09:13 PM

I used Blue Dot in warm loads for my .41 magnums for years. Then some years ago, Alliant came out with some caution about only using Blue Dot in their specifically listed loads and any other use could be dangerous. That disappointed me because it was my favorite for warm .41 mag. hunting loads with Keith-type cast bullets.

Now, I am beginning to see here, more use of Blue Dot again. Has Alliant revised that warning?

Kosh75287 · January 15, 2015, 09:34 PM

They may have warned folks off of the Blue Dot loads long enough to research them and try to reproduce the same "problems" in their testing area. It MAY be that, having investigated thoroughly, they were unable to reproduce the problem and lifted the warning. OR, they may have slightly reformulated Blue Dot to not cause the problem reported, and lifted the warning for THAT reason. OR it could be NONE of these and someone just dropped the ball, but this seems the least likely of the three.

Nick_C_S · January 15, 2015, 10:02 PM

Quote:

That disappointed me because it was my favorite for warm .41 mag. hunting loads with Keith-type cast bullets.

Were they working okay for you? ^^

If you have a good load recipe, you have a good load recipe. A manufacturer warning isn't going to change that.

Snyper · January 15, 2015, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Alliant came out with some caution about only using Blue Dot in their specifically listed loads and any other use could be dangerous

That just sounds like typical Lawyer Speak to me.

Short of more details of specific problems, I'd just keep on using it as you always have

Edited to add:

See my revised opinion in the post below, based on more specific information

dahermit · January 16, 2015, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:
That disappointed me because it was my favorite for warm .41 mag. hunting loads with Keith-type cast bullets.

Quote:

Were they working okay for you? ^^

If you have a good load recipe, you have a good load recipe. A manufacturer warning isn't going to change that.

Something else to consider, somewhere along the line "Hercules" Blue Dot became "Allient" Blue Dot, which implies a possible formulation change. I suspect that I was using the Hercules product when I started with those loads and I think it was about the time when Allient took over that the warnings appeared.

TimSr · January 16, 2015, 09:41 AM

They are still running it.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting...y_notices.aspx

Snyper · January 16, 2015, 08:48 PM

Quote:

They are still running it.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting...y_notices.aspx

They seemed pretty specific with the warning and it's not worded at all like the OP implied:

Quote:

Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).

Use of Blue Dot® in the above cases may cause a high pressure situation that could cause property damage and serious personal injury.

I'd now suggest you find a new powder

dahermit · January 17, 2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:

They seemed pretty specific with the warning and it's not worded at all like the OP implied:

You are correct...I was going by memory of what I had thought the warning was. It turns out that it was not as broad as I thought.

Taroman · January 17, 2015, 10:43 AM

As stated, that warning is very caliber/bullet weight specific.
If anyone's afraid of using it, they can ship it to me for proper disposal.
Its the best powder I've ever tried for my .357 Sig.

TimSr · January 17, 2015, 11:07 AM

I'd love to know the story behind this. Because of the very specific nature of the warning, I can't help but suspect it was based on one or two unexplainable incidents rather than a trend.

dahermit · January 17, 2015, 11:08 AM

I do not have my .41 anymore, am not likely to use Blue Dot in anything else (shoot only target loads using Bullseye and Unique). I have approximately 1/3 can of Blue Dot but I am not interested in shipping it anywhere. So, it is likely to sit on my shelf and be tossed when I pass.

I was merely curious after seeing several posts about using it.

Nick_C_S · January 17, 2015, 12:50 PM

Quote:

So, it (Blue Dot) is likely to sit on my shelf and be tossed when I pass.

Do what I did with my last 1/3lb of Blue Dot - lawn fertilizer. Broadcast sparingly. Works great.

Snyper · January 18, 2015, 12:38 AM

Quote:

If anyone's afraid of using it, they can ship it to me for proper disposal.
Its the best powder I've ever tried for my .357 Sig.

No need to dispose of anything
You just need to buy a gun in which it will work
(Which happens to be most of them EXCEPT 41 Mags)

full case load · January 18, 2015, 09:07 AM

The warnings started after they started using piezo-electric versus crushing copper to measure pressures of the "explosion". Newer method can measure the whole pressure curve and not just the "peak". That said, I have shot pounds of Blue Dot back when "too high now/prohibited" loads were mid-level loads (late 70's early 80's). I loaded 38 Sp., 357 Mag., 44 mag. without any hitch and still use that loading in my Super Blackhawk.

Clark · January 19, 2015, 11:08 AM

The less one knows, the simpler the solutions seem possible.

I see blue dot burning perfectly clean in 223 at 3600 fps with 1/2 moa groups, and yet dangerously erratic between 4000 and 4100 fps with the same load alternatively making no extractor groove growth and then making 0.010" growth.

Knowing nothing about powder, to me, this super clean at low pressure, super erratic at high pressure is because the powder is "peaky".

Blue dot in an AR15

trapper9260 · January 19, 2015, 11:23 AM

If one is worry about what is stated when you have a differnet lot number of the powder make some test rounds with the start load and work you way up and see how it works in your gun and go from there ,and if you really worry about use of that one powder let me know and I will take care of it for my own way.Yes I use Blue dot also and will keep usen it.Also it is hard to find now for how things are.

Southern Shooter · January 26, 2015, 01:19 PM

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...00-RF-Blue-Dot

January 15, 2015, 09:13 PM	#1
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Blue Dot I used Blue Dot in warm loads for my .41 magnums for years. Then some years ago, Alliant came out with some caution about only using Blue Dot in their specifically listed loads and any other use could be dangerous. That disappointed me because it was my favorite for warm .41 mag. hunting loads with Keith-type cast bullets. Now, I am beginning to see here, more use of Blue Dot again. Has Alliant revised that warning?

January 15, 2015, 09:34 PM	#2
Kosh75287 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Posts: 820	Just a surmise. They may have warned folks off of the Blue Dot loads long enough to research them and try to reproduce the same "problems" in their testing area. It MAY be that, having investigated thoroughly, they were unable to reproduce the problem and lifted the warning. OR, they may have slightly reformulated Blue Dot to not cause the problem reported, and lifted the warning for THAT reason. OR it could be NONE of these and someone just dropped the ball, but this seems the least likely of the three.

January 17, 2015, 10:43 AM	#9
Taroman Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2010 Posts: 166	As stated, that warning is very caliber/bullet weight specific. If anyone's afraid of using it, they can ship it to me for proper disposal. Its the best powder I've ever tried for my .357 Sig. __________________ -jwk- Si vis pacem, para bellum

January 18, 2015, 09:07 AM	#14
full case load Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2010 Posts: 166	The warnings started after they started using piezo-electric versus crushing copper to measure pressures of the "explosion". Newer method can measure the whole pressure curve and not just the "peak". That said, I have shot pounds of Blue Dot back when "too high now/prohibited" loads were mid-level loads (late 70's early 80's). I loaded 38 Sp., 357 Mag., 44 mag. without any hitch and still use that loading in my Super Blackhawk. __________________ live and let live

January 19, 2015, 11:08 AM	#15
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	The less one knows, the simpler the solutions seem possible. I see blue dot burning perfectly clean in 223 at 3600 fps with 1/2 moa groups, and yet dangerously erratic between 4000 and 4100 fps with the same load alternatively making no extractor groove growth and then making 0.010" growth. Knowing nothing about powder, to me, this super clean at low pressure, super erratic at high pressure is because the powder is "peaky". Blue dot in an AR15 __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

January 16, 2015, 09:41 AM	#6
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	They are still running it. http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting...y_notices.aspx

January 17, 2015, 11:07 AM	#10
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	I'd love to know the story behind this. Because of the very specific nature of the warning, I can't help but suspect it was based on one or two unexplainable incidents rather than a trend.

January 17, 2015, 11:08 AM	#11
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	I do not have my .41 anymore, am not likely to use Blue Dot in anything else (shoot only target loads using Bullseye and Unique). I have approximately 1/3 can of Blue Dot but I am not interested in shipping it anywhere. So, it is likely to sit on my shelf and be tossed when I pass. I was merely curious after seeing several posts about using it.

January 19, 2015, 11:23 AM	#16
trapper9260 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Iowa Posts: 119	If one is worry about what is stated when you have a differnet lot number of the powder make some test rounds with the start load and work you way up and see how it works in your gun and go from there ,and if you really worry about use of that one powder let me know and I will take care of it for my own way.Yes I use Blue dot also and will keep usen it.Also it is hard to find now for how things are.

January 26, 2015, 01:19 PM	#17
Southern Shooter Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2005 Location: central Louisiana Posts: 469	.454 Casull and Blue Dot Experience http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...00-RF-Blue-Dot __________________ "My plea is that we stop seeking out the storm and enjoy more fully sunlight. I am suggesting that as we go through life we accentuate the positive. I am asking that we look a little deeper for the good, that we still our voices of insult and sarcasm, that we more generously compliment and endorse virtue and effort." Gordon B. Hinckley