December 29, 2019, 10:13 AM | #51 | |
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At a public or private range during times when the range is open for general shooting, there may be anywhere from a dozen to two dozen (or more) shooting stations/lanes, and maybe two or three range safety officers trying to keep an eye on everyone. The RSOs are there as safety officers, not as instructors. They can't take one shooter by the hand -- if they do that, they can't do their job, which is watching everyone to ensure that the range's rules are followed.
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December 29, 2019, 11:24 AM | #52 | |
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To me, this is the biggest thing that the nra has done and continues to do....establishment the rules, foundation, education system and materials to run a safe range with people slightly more competent than idiots at each most levels. Without the NRA, I would be laughed at asking people not to handle guns while people are downrange or to not point there “unloaded” guns at me. |
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December 29, 2019, 04:06 PM | #53 | |
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December 29, 2019, 04:41 PM | #54 |
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We have a large private club with strict rules. This past Thursday a citizen came and asked if we could go cold. I explained how the my gun had malfunction and was technically loaded. He snorted and walked onto the range. When he came back there were words. He said that I could have taken the loaded rifle to my car etc. That was not a diplomatic comment. Some people are hopeless no matter where.
Added: The NRA TV, like it or not, was becoming more radical. This is one of the reasons people left in flocks. It would be a good thing to come up with some solid information on motivations for leaving. This would exclude name calling etc. I'd say that the looting was a cause but not the cause of the exodus. Where does the buck stop at the NRA
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December 29, 2019, 05:06 PM | #55 | |
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Where was (or is there) an RSO? Do I assume correctly that he deliberately walked out onto the range ahead of an unclear firing line? |
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December 29, 2019, 05:10 PM | #56 |
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RSO: That is a serious short fall at that range. The Fat Lady has not sang on
this one yet.
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December 29, 2019, 05:15 PM | #57 |
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What gives the NRA its political clout is that its membership votes and votes almost unerringly the way the NRA asks it to. Yes, money matters in politics, but the ability to get out the vote matters most. NRA members treat 2nd Amendment rights as single-issue voters, but the average anti-gun voter does not treat gun control as a single-issue voter, so their results are less focussed. For them, it is usually just one of several items on their social change agenda. So while everyone speaks with legitimate frustration about the NRA's organizational problems, keep in mind that unified voting is still the most important thing it does for gun rights and that none of the other organizations mentioned can hold a candle to the size of its membership or its ability to cause consternation among elected officials. Dropping out of the NRA to punish its management may bring some measure of "I told you so" satisfaction, but diminishing its membership numbers may be all it takes to convince politicians not to worry so much about how its membership votes. That may defeat all we've worked for over the last 30 years, in particular.
I was at the '93 NRA Annual Meeting when LaPierre convinced the membership he should be immune from being voted out of office. I think that was a bad decision for morale. The membership's ability to change things by vote has been sorely and repeatedly diminished by the board and I think that has alienated a lot of people to whom it was obvious that the organization had become the object of empire-building. On the other hand, that empire-building grew the membership in leaps and bounds, and that's where the political clout comes from. So much as I dislike the tactics used to get us where we are, I don't want to see even one fewer votes cast against gun controllers because of internal disunity. Also, in addition to living too well, the folks at the top have also paid a price. LaPierre has been "swatted" by anti-gunners calling in a fake emergency at his home, claiming he'd killed his wife and was armed and dangerous. Chris Cox got out not just because of internal NRA politics but in part because anti-gun fanatics have thrown fake blood all over his house—twice. The anti-gunners are nothing if not willing to resort to physical intimidation in their exercise of intolerance of opinions that differ from their own. Control by censorship of dissenting opinion is a primary "progressive" tactic. This background and interview with LaPierre in the New York Times Magazine, is not flattering, as you might expect, given the source, but supplies some "other sides" to what has been going on that are worth looking at.
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December 29, 2019, 06:12 PM | #58 |
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Trust issue
Where does the buck stop at the NRA? What you got is a basic trust issue. What has Wayne and crew done since this scandal broke. I'm a gone from that mess. Bring me up to date. What improvements have been made. Is the organization more transparent. Has there been an audit. Does anybody have any idea how much money is/was misspent or diverted? How is this trust issue to be resolved?
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December 29, 2019, 06:42 PM | #59 | |
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December 29, 2019, 06:52 PM | #60 |
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Well, Aguila, I don’t think you understood the intent of my remark. But instead of repeatedly clarifying it and derailing this thread, I thought I’d let it drop.
My general intent wasn’t that RSOs babysit; but that ranges offer classes to help build their users skill base (which many ranges do); but that once those shooters demonstrate those skills, you stop treating them by the lowest common denominator rules. Bringing this full circle, the suburban interest in self-defense is going to be a major driver for future shooters. Accessible range use is going to play a part in that; but just having the range is only part of it. There has to be a path for those who want to grow to grow, preferably without driving two hours and joining a private range. |
December 29, 2019, 09:44 PM | #61 | |
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December 30, 2019, 10:53 AM | #62 | |
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December 30, 2019, 11:02 AM | #63 | |
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December 30, 2019, 12:29 PM | #64 | |
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January 2, 2020, 10:30 AM | #65 |
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MADDOW : NRA in freefall.
MADDOW : "Even if Trump wins EVERY toss up state... He still LOSES!" |
January 2, 2020, 10:37 AM | #66 |
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January 3, 2020, 12:46 PM | #67 |
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Some folks live on meager incomes that used to go further than what they can afford today. After looking at some of the salaries that some of those leaders are making.....while I drive a 27 year-old Ranger with 400,000 miles on it that's had to be towed at least three times within recent memory..... Yeah, I'm looking for something more reliable that I can afford. So, I need to help pay Wayne's salary? I think they put something in the Kool-Aid. Or maybe it's just a rich folks club, way above my pay-grade. A lot of people that don't make anywhere near six figures a year are feeling disenfranchised enough already.
What happens when you lose the hard working common folks? Maybe we don't matter. |
January 3, 2020, 01:21 PM | #68 | |
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He has himself dug in good. And it's been that way for years. But not joining, or worse not staying a member because of that is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The NRA is far from perfect. But with that said, they have more political clout and muscle than all the pro gun organizations out there put together. Without the NRA we would be in far WORSE shape than we are now..... Wayne LaPierre and all. We can voice our displeasure with him financially, and hope they do something about it. But quitting is NOT the answer. In fact, it's the worst possible scenario. Just try to imagine if everyone did that. The mess with LaPierre will get sorted out in due time. In the mean time keep supporting the NRA. Because without them, we're pretty much done for. Just ask yourself WHY all the liberal politicians hate them so much? It's sure not because the NRA makes it easier for them to pursue their anti gun agenda. |
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January 3, 2020, 04:45 PM | #69 |
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Yep, money grabbing Wayne La Pierre cares so much about the future of the NRA that he refuses to step down and allow new blood to re-organize the NRA.
For decades i contributed until it hurt while Lapierre and his minions squandered NRA funds. No more, my current donations are to deserving charity organizations. When/if WLP goes away and the NRA is reorganized giving members input into running the organization, my donations may resume. |
January 3, 2020, 08:37 PM | #70 | |
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I called and told them that. |
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January 3, 2020, 08:59 PM | #71 |
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WLP and his cronies have changed the by-laws on the NRA so that no house cleaning can happen by voting. they are more concerned with their own status than that of the organization. WLP has gotten his 10 times over and you think he would step aside and down for the sake of the organization, but his ego isn't going to let that happen. the slogan use to be "I am the NRA", but now its all about WLP.
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January 3, 2020, 11:32 PM | #72 | |
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January 4, 2020, 12:24 PM | #73 |
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January 4, 2020, 01:39 PM | #74 | ||
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January 4, 2020, 03:21 PM | #75 |
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It could happen like it did in the 70's when Harlon Carter and his group organized a takeover of the NRA. The NRA at the time was being infiltrated by anti gunners. They were all thrown out, and Harlon Carter took the NRA back to it's conservative grass roots. We need that again.
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