Is a defense shotgun worth buying for a budget minded person?

[theliberalgunowner]

Dear Firing Line Friends,

I have always been a shotgun shooter. I competed in the nationals trap competition during high school around junior or senior year, and have hunted extensively with shotguns before. I am a bit curious about your opinions on the place for shotguns in the defense and combat applications of firearms.

I ask this because I am extremely budget minded, and want to have as few firearms as possible so I can get good with all of them. I also want to have money to spend on more ammunition rather than a lot of calibers but little bulk, and not be bogged down with gear. I have seen a trend going around that rifles are better choices, due to larger magazines, a massive advantage in the ammunition price and range aspects, controllability and maneuverability (length and weight). Should I still get a shotgun for a defense minded situation, or should I leave the shotguns for hunting and use rifles and pistols for defense? The main issue I have with shotguns is their range, which, to say the least, is anemic with buckshot. In a situation where I need a shotgun for defense I never want to ever think, "will the buckshot/slug accurately and effectively reach that far?"

Thank you guys so much for taking the time to answer my questions and give your opinions based on the matter, your responses are greatly appreciated!

Sincerely,

Theliberalgunowner

[johnwilliamson062]

The main issue I have with shotguns is their range, which, to say the least, is anemic with buckshot. In a situation where I need a shotgun for defense I never want to ever think, "will the buckshot/slug accurately and effectively reach that far?"

Most places in US you are practically limited to legal use of long guns in defense within your home. Very few of us own a home where buckshot range becomes an issue.
There was a time when I would say anyone using anything but a shotgun for HD was a fool. That time is passed. AR, pistol, shotgun, whatever is probably plenty. If you are any good with it it will likely be sufficient.

[Virginian]

If it's out of effective buckshot range good luck claiming self defense.
I am not very budget minded, and if one of my field shotguns will not suffice I guess I am out of luck, because I have no intention of buying a shotgun exclusively for self defense.

[JERRYS.]

a shotgun has good point and not so good points.

good point is that it delivers a massive amount of payload on target in regards to power.

not so good points: its not something you have on you right away during a home invasion; meaning its a go to get kind of gun. next it takes two hands to manipulate each shot if its a pump gun. also, recoil is not something a lot of folks can handle at least its too much for many to practice with. lastly, in the vast majority of homes, the favored "spread of buckshot" wont matter. it will be as important to aim a shotgun as it will a rifle or handgun.

[g.willikers]

Being good with a shotgun for hunting and clay birds isn't the same as being good with one for self defense.
Surviving a deadly encounter is a whole 'nuther thing.
Any of the choices you mention - shotgun, rifle or pistol - will do, along with the skills necessary to use them effectively and legally for the defense of your realm.
Emphasis on "skills."
If you haven't already done so, first get the training and then decide on the weapon(s).

[SARuger]

I think so, I have one at the ready if needed. And I built it on the cheap.

I picked up a Mossberg Maverick 88 20g(same gun as Mossberg 500) for $170 at a local FFL

I ordered a HD barrel from Mossberg, $65

I added a light mount, $35

I added a Streamlight LED light, $30

Wall mount shotgun vault, $140

[buckhorn_cortez]

.... and want to have as few firearms as possible...

Can't relate to that at all...

You can use whatever type of gun you feel comfortable with for self defense. Pistol, shotgun, or rifle - they all work with the correct ammunition.

Pick one, become familiar with it, practice and then use it.

[B.L.E.]

Originally Posted by Virginian

If it's out of effective buckshot range good luck claiming self defense.
I am not very budget minded, and if one of my field shotguns will not suffice I guess I am out of luck, because I have no intention of buying a shotgun exclusively for self defense.

I agree.
A home invasion by a total stranger intent on murdering the occupant is an extremely rare crime in the U.S. Most burglars make darn sure no one is home before breaking in and the best way to stop a home invasion is to make it look like someone is home. For the most part, criminals are looking for something to steal, not looking for someone to murder.
The fact that criminals won't break into occupied homes in the U.S. is a good demonstration of the deterrent effect of our armed society.

That said, when a home invasion with intent to harm the occupant does occur, it is usually someone the victim knew very well, usually a jealous ex partner, and the motive is revenge, not theft.

Being that I'm not in the bitter marriage breakup risk group, I don't worry much about a home invasion with intent to murder the occupant scenario, and the noise our dogs make every time anyone comes close to the front door will turn away a large percentage of the people who want to break in to steal stuff.
In fact, a lot of professional burglars knock on the door first and act like pollsters or solicitors to make sure the place is unoccupied.

Be careful what you post on facebook. Who needs to hack your info when you volunteer it for free on facebook? Wait 'til your actually back from your ski trip before posting pictures of it on facebook.

[BigJimP]

I think typical "defensive style" shotguns are a waste of money for most folks...because they're still long enough to be "clumsy" in most home defense situations. "Fighting shotguns" have their use for military and law enforcement - where they are also backed up with other personnel with rifles, etc../ but any decent field grade pump or semi-auto shotgun even with a 28" or 30" barrel is very capable of "Defense" vs being optimal for "Fighting" - because Defense is what you're after not an offensive fighting weapon.

At the same time...the days are gone, in most areas...where LE officers grabbed a shotgun as they stepped out of a cruiser as their first choice of weapons..../ while its not 100%, handguns for defense allow for a lot more flexibility in using your hands - and tactics...so these days Handguns have become more the norm for Defense in my view.

But the key to picking a Home Defense weapon - is training and competency with it ....range isn't really an issue at least beyond 30 or 40 Feet in most homes ...but muscle memory of operating the weapon under stress, and reasonable Tactical Accuracy -and quickly - is the key.

My personal choice for Home Defense is either a full sized 1911 in 9mm or .45 acp / or an L or N frame S&W revolver in .357 mag in a 4" or 6" barrel .../ if necessary I can get to my safe, when I have more time, where there are shotguns and rifles that I would choose as secondary home defense weapons.

[gun nut]

While home defense isn't the same as the competitive shooting you've been doing, I feel with years of using them they would be a natural fit for you. With your continued use of them through the years you should have a high level of proficiency with them, to the point it would be almost instinctive. That being said doesn't mean you don't need to practice with it. I still prefer the shotgun for home defense use, for me it's the best pick. I don't have a spot in my residence where I would feel inadequate with buckshot. I also have handguns available to me, but given the chance I would take the shotgun. My rifles are for outside.

[T. O'Heir]

"...out of effective buckshot range..." Even that is too far to be claiming fearing for your life in most cases.
"...issue I have with shotguns is their range..." Their "short range" is not short. A slug will easily be accurate to 100 yards and will go right through most wood or dry walled house walls and keep going. Buckshot is for fight fights in phone booths, but is good out to about 35 to 40 yards. Way past self defense distances.
Handguns for defense require far more training and practice. If you do not or will not practice shooting 'em regularly, with the ammo you intend using for SD, don't bother with any handgun.
Like gun nut says, shotguns are what you're most familiar with using. A "defensive" shotgun is a trap gun with a slug barrel on it.
"...first get the training..." With what?

[cc-hangfire]

OP, since you're proficient with shotguns and - as Virginian said - buckshot range would cover home defense uses, you can be well armed with a shotgun of the gauge you already have. The budget solutions are to:
1. use one you already have (preferably pump or auto-loader), or
2. get a shorter HD barrel for one you already have, or
3. get a lower cost but reliable HD shotgun (Rem 870, Mossberg 500, etc). You can find those used for less than new, and since you are familiar with firearms you probably already know what to look for in a used gun.

And as mentioned, training is certainly a good idea too.

I'm a handgun guy primarily, but i have an old reliable J C Higgins pump with a 20" barrel available for HD too.

[theliberalgunowner]

Thank you guys for the responses and the help you have given! I have a Beretta Urika 12 gauge, which is an excellent gun, but it is 42"+ and I have not found any short barrels or barrels under $500. I have been looking at a Remington 870 from budsgunshop that is new and $340ish. I just wondered if it would be better spent saving for a rifle that could perform more functions. Thanks for the input guys!

Here is shotgun in link

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...lack-synthetic

Sincerely,

theliberalgunowner

[mukjp22m]

I sense you're imagining more "combat" scenarios than rule of law home defense scenarios. That's something I've thought about. I own an AR and an M2 tactical shotgun (7+1). I often wonder which would be a better "go to" weapon for any scenario like SHTF. In the home, I agree with BigJim that a handgun is the way to go for maneuverability.

Outdoors in an unknown location or situation, I often think the M2 would be superior. I once participated in a shooting competition where we had to walk blind into a scene and make head shots on zombies at an unknown distance/position. With my Mini 14 rifle, I walked in, saw the zombies only 15-20 yards away, and I took WAY too much time lining up my shots before I could pull the trigger. Long seconds passed between each shot and I felt very inadequate. With a shotgun, it would've been nearly instant. I feel that the shotgun, especially semi-auto, would be much better at engaging multiple targets quickly or even simultaneously. The greater the distance, the more effective it'd be in this regard up to a point.

Just today I patterned buckshot at 40 yards and was easily hitting a man sized target with multiple pellets as well as whoever was standing to his left and right. With federal flight control buckshot, I was easily putting all pellets on one man at that distance. Look on youtube for long range buckshot, and it can be effective at 70, possibly even 100 yards if you're just trying to land some shots.
I also tried some long range smooth bore slug shooting today. I used Federal Truball (among others) at 100 yards with a nice Nikon Shotgun hunter scope at 100 yards. For combat accuracy, it's fine. I could hit a torso nearly 100% of the time. For hunting accuracy, not so much. The groups were inconsistent and ranged from 4 - 10 inches group by group. But enough to hit a man, and a slug hit in a combat scenario would be devastating anywhere on the body.

I find myself imagining needing the AR because it can reach hundreds of yards, but honestly, that's a battlefield scenario, not an HD or even WROL scenario. Put a slug up front for a precision first shot and then let loose with a rain of buckshot and you'll stop just about threat. Do you want mid and long range effectiveness (AR), or short and mid-range total superiority?

[Doc TH]

The British troops involved in the communist insurrection in Malaya found, and reported, that the highest "hit percentage" was from the shotgun as opposed to rifles or submachine guns. They eventually preferred the shotgun for point men on patrol.

[Bill DeShivs]

Go to a gun shop or pawn shop and find a used Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 shotgun. Have the barrel cut to 18+ inches. Forget lights, bayonets, chokes, heat shields, pistol grips, lasers, slings, extended magazines, side saddles, and all the other junk people hang on their guns.
Pattern the gun, and learn to shoot it with both slugs and buckshot.

[zincwarrior]

Alternatively,

Get a "field/defense" combo from either Remington or Mossberg. This will give you the same platform to shoot clays/hunt, as well as a short barrel version for home defense.

[FITASC]

If you are talking purely for defense, use what you have now - no need for short barrels (and their expense) as you shouldn't be doing any form of house clearing. Hunker down in the bedroom behind the bed, muzzle pointed to the locked door and dial 911.

[JERRYS.]

basic Mossberg 500a.

I added was a shell holder on the frame because I don't like the spandex version on the butt stock rubbing my cheek.

afg because I like not having to twist my wrist as far (more comfortable for me).

snap-on day glow sight because the gold bead was useless in low light and isn't as quick for me to pick up in bright light.





that said, this is a 20" bbl gun, and I'd rather have the 18" bbl even if it meant having a 6 shot magazine tube.

[Sappyg]

I don't think it matters much which gun might be used in an HD situation. As long as you're willing and able most anything will do fine.

Now the OP is budget minded. A Maverick 88 is less than 2 bills with money left over for ammo. Can't even buy a shotgun barrel for that money much less a shotgun.

[crashdummy]

I like a 3" 20 ga coach gun, first bbl with #4 bird shot, and the other with buckshot.

[Bushmaster1313]

I am going to speak for the namesake of this forum, the late Dave McCracken:

"Get the gun you will practice with the most."

[BigBL87]

Alternatively,

Get a "field/defense" combo from either Remington or Mossberg. This will give you the same platform to shoot clays/hunt, as well as a short barrel version for home defense.

This is what I did, as I wanted a shotgun for both uses. 99% of the time it wears the short barrel, basically only wears the field barrel when I'm going to shoot clays and then it comes right back off when it gets home.

Back when I bought it, my Mossberg 500 was my only firearm. I bought it because it was relatively inexpensive compared to a handgun or rifle and had multiple uses. I have since purchased several handguns and an AR-15 that could all be used for home defense as well as a Savage Mark II for purely fun uses. My shotgun sits in my safe loaded with buckshot and is my "barricade the bedroom and wait for the police" choice. I have my handguns in the dresser drawer to A) Get me to the shotgun or B) Use if for some reason I need to leave the bedroom (such as if I have kids in the future and need to get to them).

So, basically, if you're only going to own one gun, I'd recommend it be a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. If you want to go even cheaper, a Maverick 88 or H&R Pardner Pump (which is a copy of the Remington 870 and will take some of its accessories). Flexibility is about as good as it gets in the gun world and those have the best aftermarket in the pump shotgun world in addition to being a great bang for your buck. On a defense shotgun, for most people the only thing I'd add is a light, mainly because it's handy to be able to see what you're shooting at. Some people will say you don't need them or that people will instinctively shoot at the light so it's a bad idea, but I'd rather have one and not use it than not have one and want to use it. I personally also plan on adding a micro red dot to my shotgun. Only reason being that I am cross eye dominant and have a very hard time shooting with both eyes open using regular sights. But, if you've been shooting shotgun as long as you have I'm guessing you don't have that issue.

As far as the range of a shotgun goes, if you're looking purely at defensive uses then you shouldn't need anything with range longer than a shotgun. If someone is out of the range of buckshot, you'll have a hard time making a case for self defense. Now, part of the reason I own an AR-15 is for extended range for coyote or other nuisances which could pose a danger to family or pets, but that's a completely different issue.

[drobs]

I have 2 Remington 870's, 1 Mossberg 500, and 1 Chinese 870 copy.
In some SHTF fantasy - give me a rifle -the shotguns are getting left behind.

Regarding shooting at longer ranges not being justified as self-defense...
If someone is shooting at me from longer ranges I want the ability to shoot back.

I'm all for cheating - overwhelming force overwhelming firepower.

[Orion6]

Get an 870 or Mossberg 500 combo (long barrel for hunting and short for defense). Tried and true, affordable, and plenty of capacity for real-world scenarios.

Both platforms have a lot of aftermarket support, both are relatively simple and easy to maintain and repair.

Should be able to get a good setup in the $300 range, or find a nice used gun at a pawn shop and you can add a $100 barrel.