Swiss K31 vs. 1911

[leadcounsel]

So what's the difference? For lack of a better question, which is "better." BTW I own a K31. Thanks.

[Rampant_Colt]

For starters, one is a rifle and one is a pistol.. Where's this thread headed?

[Jim Watson]

K31 is the later model with a stronger lockup.

[leadcounsel]

@Rampant - the Swiss 1911 is a rifle. Thanks for stating the obvious re Google. I'm looking for someone with some experience because I'm considering buying one.

[Rampant_Colt]

leadcounsel - with all of the goofy threads lately, i wasn't too certain..



good luck in your search

[leadcounsel]

For investment purposes, which is more 'valuable' and which would likely be in better condition if purchased sight unseen?

[Tidewater_Kid]

The 1911 usually go for a bit more as fewer were made. Aimsurplus has both right now available for under $300. Look here for history:

http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/index.html

TK

[leadcounsel]

I had read that link in my searches... I own the K31... but I'm curious about the 1911s. I did some research and the K31 seems to have many improvements. The 1911 has the advantage of being much more rare and an earlier design...

[Crosshair]

Geeze, I remember when I bought all three of my K-31's for $110 each.

[44 AMP]

The Swiss 1911 is reputed to have less strength than the K 31. Either will manage Swiss service ammo, but for the 1911, its the top end of its safety level.

There are minor differences and I don't have the right book handy to detail them, sorry. I have some shooting experience with the K 31, and swiss ammo, which is match grade perfromance, although that stuff is scarce today. Very accurate. Relatively mild recoil for the class of cartridge, as the rifle is not light. Felt a bit odd to work the straight pull, and it ejects out the "wrong" side!

Trigger pull was good for a military rifle of the period, and the stock fir me well enough, although I found the wrist too thick for real comfort.

[kadima]

go to the swissrifles forum (google for it) and they'll tell you to get both!
K.

[MJ1]

Both are accurate.


......

[James K]

The K.31 has a stronger and more compact action, with the locking lugs at the front of the bolt rather than at mid-point, and is a handier rifle than the longer Model 1911. AFAIK, the Swiss ammo on the market is the 1911 type, so it is OK in both rifles (but not in the Model 1889).

Either rifle is OK, but I consider the Model 1911 to be more in the collector category.

Jim

[madcratebuilder]

They made about 187k 1911 carbines and about 580k K-31's, that alone makes the 1911 carbine more collectible.

The K-31 has an improved, simplified action over the 1911 carbine, both shoot pretty good. K-31 for the shooter and 1911 carbine for the collector. Both comes to mind.

[benogil]

Are you referring to the G11 ( the long rifle ), or the K11 ( the carbine version) ?
If you are referring to the G , the K31 was built to try to be as accurate as a G11. It comes close. The K11 has shorter range sights for a reason.

[SP Shop Foreman]

The 1911sr is acknowledged as being the more accurate of the two.
The 1911sr is also the rifle imported by Golden State Arms, sporterized and converted to .308 ihn the 60s and 70s. It easily handles .308 chamber pressures and makes an excellent short hunting rifle.

[johnwilliamson062]

SP,
Sorry to interject in this conversation, but wondering if you could look at a thread I am currently in:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414309

Get a K31 for sure. GP11 isn't everywhere, but it is out there and compared to other match grade ammo it is VERY reasonably priced.

The K11 is also nice.

[SP Shop Foreman]

I answered you there.
Thanks

[TRguy]

Just be aware if you reload the 7.5x55Swiss the chamber on the K11 is typically longer and therefore you have a longer COAL (Case Over All Length).

The K31 chamber has variances in length. I have one made in 1948 and one made in 1951. The difference in the length of the chamber between the two is .07 which makes the COAL on my loads different.

That being said I like both rifles. The Swiss have engineered an excellent rifle and used quality high nickel content steel. I love my K31s.

[MJ1]

Why not hand load? I have had dies and brass on hand for two years jst for the day i run really low on GP11.

[SP Shop Foreman]

TRguy, I assume that when you're developing a seat depth you're indexing on the ogive, Right? COL doesn't mean much if you're doing it that way and not indexing on the projectile tip as long as it fits in the magazine. COL will matter if your k31 is chambered in 30-06. It then becomes a single shot rifle.
Swiss rifles all seem to prefer being right at the lands, 1911, k11, k31 or zfk55. Do a test with a GP11 cartridge and a 175gr Berger VLD to prove your seat depth.

[Webleymkv]

In order to fully understand the differences, you must understand both the history of the Schmidt-Rubin series of rifles and the way in which they work. The bolt face on a K31, K11, G11, or any Schmidt-Rubin does not rotate. Instead, there is an outer bolt sleeve upon which the locking lugs are mounted which rotates. The original G1889 rifle had the locking lugs positioned at the rear of the bolt and is the weakest of the Schmidt-Rubin series. Over time, the rifle was redesigned a number of times in an attempt to both shorten the action and move the locking lugs foreward in order to increase strength. The G11/K11 had its locking lugs located at the midpoint of the bolt and was the first rifle deemed strong enough for the GP11 cartridge. To my knowledge, no loaded ammunition is available for older rifles and thusly shooting them is strictly a handloading proposition. The K31 was developed out of a desire to standardize on one weapon rather than having both a long rifle and a carbine. By relocating the locking lugs to the front of the action, it was possible for the K31 to have roughly the same length barrel as the G11 while maintaining the same overall length as the K11. Also, the K31 is considered to be the strongest of the Schmidt-Rubin series due to its frontal locking lugs.

As a shooter, I would consider the K31 to be the best of the series as it will give roughly the same velocities as the G11 in a shorter, handier, stronger package. The older G11/K11, however, are still good shooters, can handle any commercially produced 7.5x55 ammo as well as surplus GP11, and are excellent rifles in their own right. As a collectible, the older G11/K11 is probably a better investment due to their scarcity as compared to the K31.

[SP Shop Foreman]

"By relocating the locking lugs to the front of the action, it was possible for the K31 to have roughly the same length barrel as the G11 while maintaining the same overall length as the K11."

No, not quite Wmkv. If you had said a barrel length similar to the k11 you'd have been close.
Nominal barrel length on a G11, or 1911sr is 29.5". Barrel length on a k31 is a nominal 24", or 5.5" difference. otherwise you're pretty close.

[Webleymkv]

"By relocating the locking lugs to the front of the action, it was possible for the K31 to have roughly the same length barrel as the G11 while maintaining the same overall length as the K11."

No, not quite Wmkv. If you had said a barrel length similar to the k11 you'd have been close.
Nominal barrel length on a G11, or 1911sr is 29.5". Barrel length on a k31 is a nominal 24", or 5.5" difference. otherwise you're pretty close.

While you are correct that the K31's barrel is significantly shorter than the G11, the lengths you cite do not match up with those listed on swissrifles.com. They list the G11 as a 30.7" barrel, the K11 as a 23.3", and the K31 as a 25.65" barrel. They also list the overall length of the K11 and K31 as the same at 43.6".

http://www.swissrifles.com

[SP Shop Foreman]

Sorry, Web. We have a habit of measuring from the lands forward for our own reasons, and that's not usual I know.
If you do happen to measure that way you'll find I'm dead on.
We do a specialized barrel treatment and always take that as our barrel length.
Oh well.........


Latigo