FN Model 1910/22 Serial Number

roguetwelve12 · March 24, 2011, 07:25 PM

Hi all. Just procured a nice 10/22 with some gorgeous markings/stamps. Its a WaA140 serial numbered 13523a. I'm trying to find a year of production (if not more specific even) but so far I've had no luck with any of my books/internet references. Can anybody here help me? Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate your time.

James K · March 25, 2011, 02:30 PM

I am not sure what you mean by a Model 10/22. That term was applied to some Model 1910's made to conform to the US import rules after GCA 68, and would have no meaning on a (presumably) wartime Model 1922. AFAIK, few if any Model 1910s were made in the occupation period. The Germans adopted the Model 1922 as the Pistole 626(b) and had them made only in 7.65mm Browning (.32 ACP). (9mm Kurz - .380 ACP - was not in the German military supply system.)

WaA inspector #140 (real name unknown) took over at Liege sometime in late 1941 and served until the end of German occupation in 1944. Some 330,000 of those pistols were made in those years. The numbering started at about 67,000 (the approximate end of peacetime production) and ran to 150,000, the started with 1a and went to 99,999a, then 1b to 99,999b, 1c to about 47671c. If we assume a steady production rate, your gun was probably made sometime in 1942, but I doubt you will get closer than that and it is an estimate.

Jim

roguetwelve12 · March 26, 2011, 10:15 AM

Hi Jim,

Thanks a lot for the response. I meant to say Model 1922, I just think of them sometimes as 10/22's in my own way ha. I actually spent a great deal of time researching this and here's what I found out, for your learning enjoyment.

In 1943 when the model 1922 was starting to be produced for more than just the Luftwaffe and other specialist units, Germany decided to restart the numbering system. The first 99,999 model 1922s produced had a simple 5 digit serial number accordingly. As they hit number 100,000 however, they restarted the serial numbering system again, adding an "A" suffix, and did so again with "B" after pistol 99999a, etc. So, based on this info, my particular pistol was the 113,523rd one produced. Furthermore, in 1944, they switched the stamping to only the final 4 digits being stamped on the slide instead of all 5.

So using those two pieces of information, most (matching) Model 1922's should be able to be adequately dated, in my case to 1943.

Hope it was enlightening. I enjoyed researching it.

gyvel · March 27, 2011, 07:48 AM

Quote:

In 1943 when the model 1922 was starting to be produced for more than just the Luftwaffe and other specialist units, Germany decided to restart the numbering system. The first 99,999 model 1922s produced had a simple 5 digit serial number accordingly. As they hit number 100,000 however, they restarted the serial numbering system again, adding an "A" suffix, and did so again with "B" after pistol 99999a, etc. So, based on this info, my particular pistol was the 113,523rd one produced. Furthermore, in 1944, they switched the stamping to only the final 4 digits being stamped on the slide instead of all 5.

This is not true. Guns with serial numbers that have letter suffixes are found in blocks interspersed with blocks of full 6 digit numbers. This policy continued into the 200,000 range, but soon was phased out completely and thereafter, all 1922s (or 10/22s, if you prefer) were numbered with "b" and "c" suffixes.

Over the last 40 years or so, I have compiled a list of serial numbers on 1922s that I have observed, and I found the existence of these blocks of serial numbers. Why this practice occurred, I have NO idea.

Unfortunately, the people that could tell us the real reasons are no longer with us.

Here are some examples:

100604, 100983, 102269, (10)3626a, 103693, (10)5105a, (10)7633a, 107757, (10)8019a, (10)9985a, 110462, 111168, 113185, (1)19364a, 121830, (1)23558a, (1)26141a, (1)29045a, 130002, 131995, etc. etc.

The highest 100,000 range guns I have seen were 197396 and 197510, which were both "eagle N" guns, followed by (1)98024a and (1)99775a.

In the "b" (200,000) range: (200)209b, (200)328b, 204337, (20)5956b, 207054, 207238, 210520, 212068, and 217307; thereafter, ALL that I observed were 5 digit numbers with "b" suffix.

I have never seen any 300,000 range 6 digit numbers; They have all had "c" suffixes, the highest I have seen being (3)41797c.

The earliest (.32 ACP) number I have observed is #20014 with WaA 613. Somewhere between 26419 and 28804, a change took place and WaA 103 replaced 613. After that, WaA140 was implemented somewhere between 57723 and 60142.

And, FWIW, the designation of the the Browning guns imported to conform to the GCA of '68 were called Model 10/70, not 10/22. "10/22" is frequently used to describe the Model 1922, as it was originally a modification of the 1910 pistol for a Yugoslavian order in the early 1920s.

roguetwelve12 · March 27, 2011, 09:35 AM

Thanks for the information Gyvel. That's a different take from what I've seen elsewhere but makes sense. So what, if anything, does that say about my particular piece?

gyvel · March 27, 2011, 11:46 AM

More or less, 340,000 to 360,000 guns were produced from 1940 to 1944. My guess is that yours was late 42 or early 43.

Major Whittington in his book claimed 363,200.

Given the serials that I have recorded over the years, it seems that at least 320,000+ were produced.

roguetwelve12 · March 27, 2011, 12:18 PM

If you need any more information from mine to add to your list let me know bro.

gyvel · March 31, 2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

If you need any more information from mine to add to your list let me know bro.

Thanks for the offer, but I sort of lost interest in my 1922 collecting. Van der Linden accomplished what I always wanted to do; He published a book on the 1922s.

At one time I had about 80 different variations, but I have gradually sold them off until now I only have 25-30 or so.

James K · April 1, 2011, 09:18 PM

The trouble is that Vanderlinden's book is just as confusing as the numbering itself. Has anyone ever published a simple serial number - date list, like Wilson did for Colts? Or is it even possible? Even if not totally accurate, it would be a start.

But a lot needs explanation. Why, for example, would the methodical Germans start the "b" series (5956b) and then suddently switch to using the straight number (207xxx)? Stuff like that just doesn't make sense.

Jim

gyvel · April 1, 2011, 09:22 PM

Well, it doesn't make sense to me either.

After I had collected a couple hundred serial numbers or so, I noticed this pattern of blocks evolving.

And, as I said, the people who could tell us have long since gone to their "reward."

Also, some of the research I did on other contracts contradicts what Mr. van der Linden published, but, hey!, who am I to argue?

AnonymousGuy · July 28, 2011, 07:28 PM

The 1922 I own is number 14514c. It was passed down to me through the years through my family and it was originally obtained by my great uncle personally. i have no idea what the value is on this type of firearm, as i have learned everything i know about it on this website.

boxerrider · July 29, 2011, 12:55 PM

I have a WaA140 with six digit serial number 178545, no suffix.
It's pretty roughly manufactured. As a citizen I don't trust my life to it, I hate to think about being soldier and having it issued to me. I'm under the impression that most of these went to the Luftwaffe. Is that correct?

Thanks!

March 27, 2011, 11:46 AM	#6
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	More or less, 340,000 to 360,000 guns were produced from 1940 to 1944. My guess is that yours was late 42 or early 43. Major Whittington in his book claimed 363,200. Given the serials that I have recorded over the years, it seems that at least 320,000+ were produced. Last edited by gyvel; March 27, 2011 at 11:53 AM.

April 1, 2011, 09:22 PM	#10
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Well, it doesn't make sense to me either. After I had collected a couple hundred serial numbers or so, I noticed this pattern of blocks evolving. And, as I said, the people who could tell us have long since gone to their "reward." Also, some of the research I did on other contracts contradicts what Mr. van der Linden published, but, hey!, who am I to argue? Last edited by gyvel; April 2, 2011 at 09:16 PM.

March 24, 2011, 07:25 PM	#1
roguetwelve12 Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Posts: 37	FN Model 1910/22 Serial Number Hi all. Just procured a nice 10/22 with some gorgeous markings/stamps. Its a WaA140 serial numbered 13523a. I'm trying to find a year of production (if not more specific even) but so far I've had no luck with any of my books/internet references. Can anybody here help me? Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate your time.

March 25, 2011, 02:30 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am not sure what you mean by a Model 10/22. That term was applied to some Model 1910's made to conform to the US import rules after GCA 68, and would have no meaning on a (presumably) wartime Model 1922. AFAIK, few if any Model 1910s were made in the occupation period. The Germans adopted the Model 1922 as the Pistole 626(b) and had them made only in 7.65mm Browning (.32 ACP). (9mm Kurz - .380 ACP - was not in the German military supply system.) WaA inspector #140 (real name unknown) took over at Liege sometime in late 1941 and served until the end of German occupation in 1944. Some 330,000 of those pistols were made in those years. The numbering started at about 67,000 (the approximate end of peacetime production) and ran to 150,000, the started with 1a and went to 99,999a, then 1b to 99,999b, 1c to about 47671c. If we assume a steady production rate, your gun was probably made sometime in 1942, but I doubt you will get closer than that and it is an estimate. Jim

March 26, 2011, 10:15 AM	#3
roguetwelve12 Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Posts: 37	Hi Jim, Thanks a lot for the response. I meant to say Model 1922, I just think of them sometimes as 10/22's in my own way ha. I actually spent a great deal of time researching this and here's what I found out, for your learning enjoyment. In 1943 when the model 1922 was starting to be produced for more than just the Luftwaffe and other specialist units, Germany decided to restart the numbering system. The first 99,999 model 1922s produced had a simple 5 digit serial number accordingly. As they hit number 100,000 however, they restarted the serial numbering system again, adding an "A" suffix, and did so again with "B" after pistol 99999a, etc. So, based on this info, my particular pistol was the 113,523rd one produced. Furthermore, in 1944, they switched the stamping to only the final 4 digits being stamped on the slide instead of all 5. So using those two pieces of information, most (matching) Model 1922's should be able to be adequately dated, in my case to 1943. Hope it was enlightening. I enjoyed researching it.

March 27, 2011, 09:35 AM	#5
roguetwelve12 Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Posts: 37	Thanks for the information Gyvel. That's a different take from what I've seen elsewhere but makes sense. So what, if anything, does that say about my particular piece?

March 27, 2011, 12:18 PM	#7
roguetwelve12 Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Posts: 37	If you need any more information from mine to add to your list let me know bro.

April 1, 2011, 09:18 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The trouble is that Vanderlinden's book is just as confusing as the numbering itself. Has anyone ever published a simple serial number - date list, like Wilson did for Colts? Or is it even possible? Even if not totally accurate, it would be a start. But a lot needs explanation. Why, for example, would the methodical Germans start the "b" series (5956b) and then suddently switch to using the straight number (207xxx)? Stuff like that just doesn't make sense. Jim

July 28, 2011, 07:28 PM	#11
AnonymousGuy Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2011 Posts: 1	The 1922 I own is number 14514c. It was passed down to me through the years through my family and it was originally obtained by my great uncle personally. i have no idea what the value is on this type of firearm, as i have learned everything i know about it on this website.

July 29, 2011, 12:55 PM	#12
boxerrider Member Join Date: April 10, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 23	I have a WaA140 with six digit serial number 178545, no suffix. It's pretty roughly manufactured. As a citizen I don't trust my life to it, I hate to think about being soldier and having it issued to me. I'm under the impression that most of these went to the Luftwaffe. Is that correct? Thanks!