Beretta M21 for a woman? - Page 2

TunnelRat · May 11, 2017, 07:58 PM

I don't really prescribe to the whole notion that there are specific guns for or not for women. You're right that everyone has preferences and discovering those are important, but just because I'm a man doesn't mean I can't offer a woman advice on what might work for her if she can provide me some criteria.

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Cheapshooter · May 11, 2017, 09:16 PM

Attention, this is as rare of an occurrence as the upcoming total solar eclipse!!!!
I agree with Bill DeShivs!!!!

A Kel-Tec P32 would be a very good choice for her to consider.
But as many others have said, most important is she spends some range time trying several guns, and chamberings. Never know, she might end up being comfortable, and competent with a more powerful round than you think.

PlatinumCore16 · May 12, 2017, 07:41 AM

Quote:

My advice, don't offer suggestions, offer unbiased experienced feedback and let HER choose.

Quote:

I don't really prescribe to the whole notion that there are specific guns for or not for women. You're right that everyone has preferences and discovering those are important, but just because I'm a man doesn't mean I can't offer a woman advice on what might work for her if she can provide me some criteria.

To the first point, I agree, but I think that most people cannot offer unbiased ANYTHING. Everything we see is through our own experiences so I think that your advice is a really great idea to strive for, but I think that the second point is much closer to what the reality is going to be.

When I asked my gf if I could buy her a gun for her birthday, she initially was like "Really? That's what you want to get me?" but after going out looking and handling a whole bunch of different guns at different stores, she changed her view. When she decided on a pistol (yes it had 'gold' furniture so it was a little blingy), she was super excited to get it. And she was pretty excited to shoot it. Now we haven't been able to make it back to the range due to travel and both of us having extremely busy schedules (she's in school and working, I have 2 jobs blah blah blah), but I am pretty sure she will be happy to be at the range. She had fun the first time and I am excited to get her behind the gun again because she is also excited about it.

I'm not saying that I did the best job or do exactly as I did, because there were definitely some growing pains and she definitely looked at me and said "Shut up" at least once, but from going through that, I would highly, HIGHLY recommend you get her to pick up a few pistols and talk to a few gun store clerks. Try to make at least one of them a woman because, I'm not being sexist here, they're going to have a different point of view than a guy behind the counter and, if they're a good clerk/gun owner, your lady is going to probably (i did say PROBABLY) feel a little more comfortable taking advice from a women. Especially if your lady is petite and you've been to gun stores with average size gentleman behind the counter(think hand size).

Last bit of advice is never, NEVER, rule out a pistol or say "Oh you don't want that." Let THEM be the decider of that. If they want to try out a .44 mag, let em. They will either like it, or they won't. But do not discount anything, ANYTHING, until they have discounted it themselves.

Glenn E. Meyer · May 12, 2017, 09:57 AM

Read Cornered Cat.
Have woman take a good female oriented handgun class
Shut mouth based on your 'expert' opinion, let her choose
She should practice with it.

Ignore male opinions on Internet about what they think is the best gun, if they do more than say a female likes and shoots a particular gun.

I think it is imperative that someone shoots the gun or a similar model before the purchase. Appearance and simple grip size is not enough.

This is for men also.

BTW, the small 22 semiautos are notorious jammers, I wouldn't recommend them for anybody as an EDC. Yeah, someone will say: Well, mine is perfect.

That's nice but the overall history is well known.

P5 Guy · May 12, 2017, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Why are people always recommending small guns/calibers for women? Why?? I own full size Berettas (92FS), the Ruger Night Watchman (.45) and Glocks and the Walther PPS. Take her to the range and let the gun be her choice....

BTW, the .22 is a target round, not a self defense caliber.

Laura

Small handguns are harder to shoot than 'normal' size handguns.
Sending a novice off with a tiny pocket gun is just wrong, that is just my not very humble opinion.

Bill DeShivs · May 12, 2017, 01:59 PM

In my experience with women- the guns need to be small enough and light enough for them to easily carry it all the time.
Most of them are going to carry it in their purse-whether they "should" or not.
So, don't direct them to the custom short barreled .44 magnum. They won't carry it.
Show them guns that they can operate and shoot, but that they will carry.

straightshooterjake · May 12, 2017, 11:06 PM

There is some excellent advice in this thread. In particular:

Review the corneredcat website.
She needs training.
She needs to shoot lots of guns.
She needs to choose the gun.

But there is also one area that I have not seen discussed. The intended purpose and carry method for the gun is very important. Full size and full weight guns are much easier to shoot than compact lightweights. Especially as a beginner, she should choose the largest gun that reasonably fits the expected circumstances. You can help her to understand the advantages of a larger gun or help make sure this is covered by her instructor during training.

For example, a 4" Smith & Wesson model 10 (steel frame six shot) is much easier to shoot than a model 60 (steel frame 2" barrel five shot). And a model 60 is much easier to shoot than a model 642 (aluminum frame 5 shot). She needs to shoot enough guns to understand for herself the balance between size, weight and controllability. I have seen women avoid larger guns because they somehow look harder to shoot, but this incorrect perception is easily fixed with a bit of range time.

When she understands the tradeoffs, she can decide what size and weight will work for her. She is quite likely to choose a medium size 380 like the Walther PK380. I don't love those guns, but they are acceptable and they are easier to shoot than the very small 380s. She may also find that she is comfortable with a 9mm like the S&W Shield which I think is a well made gun.

Very small and lightweight guns are easy to carry, but they have real disadvantages for actually shooting them. These tradeoffs are important for all shooters, but they are especially important for beginners.

DnPRK · May 12, 2017, 11:31 PM

I've got 21A Bobcats in 25ACP, another in 22LR and a 3032 Tomcat in 32ACP.

I recommend the Tomcat. It isn't much bigger or heavier, but has a better penetrating bullet.

Big Tom · May 13, 2017, 06:47 AM

There are some other options. Have you considered a .32 caliber? .32 is a centerfire and it propels a much heavier bullet with little felt recoil. I know that you can find some used revolvers in .32 S&W long which I would choose any day over a .22 semi auto. The other thing I'd recommend would be the Beretta Tomcat .32 auto which is pretty much the same design only it shoots a stronger and heftier caliber. If you are dead set on .22 there are many who love the NAA mini revolvers. The Black Widow in .22 WMR would be a good choice as well, though I wouldn't really recommend a SA revolver as the time between shots presents an opening for a bad guy to hurt her.

Lastly the Ruger has a .22 and a .32 version of their LCR that holds 8 rounds for the .22 LR version and 6 or the 22 WMR version. If you are set on .22 I'd choose a revolver with as much capacity as possible. .22 LR mini mags or .22 WMR maxi mags would be my go to load for defense in that caliber. The .327 LCR offers 6 potent rounds of .327. However I understand that this load is not good for a new shooter, especially out of a snubby. However you could start her with .32 S&W longs, which may not be the most powerful but still shoot a 100 grain bullet at the bad guy. When she gets good enough you can step her up the .32 H&R magnum, which is comparable in felt recoil to a .38 special. Hope this info helps you out.

If it was me I'd go with the LCR .327 but that's me. No safety controls to worry about, just keep pulling that trigger and let it go bang.

ShootistPRS · May 13, 2017, 11:49 AM

The ONLY way to get a gun for a woman is to let her pick it out.
I know tiny little women who like BIG guns and big women who like small guns. There is no way that any man can pick out a gun for another guy much less a woman. Take her to a "Women on Target event (sponsored by the NRA) and let her try different guns. The event has a minimal cost and she will get to handle a lot of different makes, models and calibers of guns. It is a lot cheaper than renting guns at an indoor range and she will get personal instruction from qualified people in a safe, inviting, environment.

Brian48 · May 14, 2017, 08:09 AM

I'd recommend a light weight jframe and then let her determine which carry load Is most controllable for her comfort level.

tallball · May 14, 2017, 08:54 PM

When I first read the thread title, I thought someone was being offered a trade. I would have to see pictures of each to decide if it was a good deal or not.

Glenn E. Meyer · May 15, 2017, 09:31 AM

We are kind of running out of gas here. If something just says another gun, then they are missing the point of the best advice.

Chris_B · May 15, 2017, 12:02 PM

Quote:

What's the best gun for a woman ? If you guys answered you have no clue your not a woman.

This logic holds that I know the best firearm for you, since we both have similar chromosomes.

ShootistPRS · May 15, 2017, 12:40 PM

If you want a new gun just buy one for a woman. She will reject it and you have another gun. If you want to buy her a gun then let her pick it and keep your opinions to yourself. She will buy what she likes and love it.

dogngun · May 19, 2017, 06:55 AM

I was going to say that might be a good trade, depending on the condition...

But these little Berettas have NEVER been dependable enough to carry...and I really wanted to like them - I like the idea of a small pocket .22 pistol, but, it has to SHOOT...and the several Beretta M21's I owned some years ago would not reliably do that.

Not a .22, but the only carry small pocket pistol I feel comfortable carrying is the S&W Bodyguard .380...NEVER had a single problem with either of the 2 I own.
( one with the safety, one without.)

May 11, 2017, 09:16 PM	#27
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	Attention, this is as rare of an occurrence as the upcoming total solar eclipse!!!! I agree with Bill DeShivs!!!! A Kel-Tec P32 would be a very good choice for her to consider. But as many others have said, most important is she spends some range time trying several guns, and chamberings. Never know, she might end up being comfortable, and competent with a more powerful round than you think. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

May 12, 2017, 09:57 AM	#29
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Read Cornered Cat. Have woman take a good female oriented handgun class Shut mouth based on your 'expert' opinion, let her choose She should practice with it. Ignore male opinions on Internet about what they think is the best gun, if they do more than say a female likes and shoots a particular gun. I think it is imperative that someone shoots the gun or a similar model before the purchase. Appearance and simple grip size is not enough. This is for men also. BTW, the small 22 semiautos are notorious jammers, I wouldn't recommend them for anybody as an EDC. Yeah, someone will say: Well, mine is perfect. That's nice but the overall history is well known. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

May 12, 2017, 01:59 PM	#31
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	In my experience with women- the guns need to be small enough and light enough for them to easily carry it all the time. Most of them are going to carry it in their purse-whether they "should" or not. So, don't direct them to the custom short barreled .44 magnum. They won't carry it. Show them guns that they can operate and shoot, but that they will carry. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

May 12, 2017, 11:06 PM	#32
straightshooterjake Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2016 Posts: 122	There is some excellent advice in this thread. In particular: Review the corneredcat website. She needs training. She needs to shoot lots of guns. She needs to choose the gun. But there is also one area that I have not seen discussed. The intended purpose and carry method for the gun is very important. Full size and full weight guns are much easier to shoot than compact lightweights. Especially as a beginner, she should choose the largest gun that reasonably fits the expected circumstances. You can help her to understand the advantages of a larger gun or help make sure this is covered by her instructor during training. For example, a 4" Smith & Wesson model 10 (steel frame six shot) is much easier to shoot than a model 60 (steel frame 2" barrel five shot). And a model 60 is much easier to shoot than a model 642 (aluminum frame 5 shot). She needs to shoot enough guns to understand for herself the balance between size, weight and controllability. I have seen women avoid larger guns because they somehow look harder to shoot, but this incorrect perception is easily fixed with a bit of range time. When she understands the tradeoffs, she can decide what size and weight will work for her. She is quite likely to choose a medium size 380 like the Walther PK380. I don't love those guns, but they are acceptable and they are easier to shoot than the very small 380s. She may also find that she is comfortable with a 9mm like the S&W Shield which I think is a well made gun. Very small and lightweight guns are easy to carry, but they have real disadvantages for actually shooting them. These tradeoffs are important for all shooters, but they are especially important for beginners. __________________ My blog: http://straightshooterjake.blogspot.com/

May 13, 2017, 06:47 AM	#34
Big Tom Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2009 Location: Northeast, Maryland Posts: 441	There are some other options. Have you considered a .32 caliber? .32 is a centerfire and it propels a much heavier bullet with little felt recoil. I know that you can find some used revolvers in .32 S&W long which I would choose any day over a .22 semi auto. The other thing I'd recommend would be the Beretta Tomcat .32 auto which is pretty much the same design only it shoots a stronger and heftier caliber. If you are dead set on .22 there are many who love the NAA mini revolvers. The Black Widow in .22 WMR would be a good choice as well, though I wouldn't really recommend a SA revolver as the time between shots presents an opening for a bad guy to hurt her. Lastly the Ruger has a .22 and a .32 version of their LCR that holds 8 rounds for the .22 LR version and 6 or the 22 WMR version. If you are set on .22 I'd choose a revolver with as much capacity as possible. .22 LR mini mags or .22 WMR maxi mags would be my go to load for defense in that caliber. The .327 LCR offers 6 potent rounds of .327. However I understand that this load is not good for a new shooter, especially out of a snubby. However you could start her with .32 S&W longs, which may not be the most powerful but still shoot a 100 grain bullet at the bad guy. When she gets good enough you can step her up the .32 H&R magnum, which is comparable in felt recoil to a .38 special. Hope this info helps you out. If it was me I'd go with the LCR .327 but that's me. No safety controls to worry about, just keep pulling that trigger and let it go bang. __________________ ANTI-GUN is ANTI-AMERICAN!

May 11, 2017, 07:58 PM	#26
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	I don't really prescribe to the whole notion that there are specific guns for or not for women. You're right that everyone has preferences and discovering those are important, but just because I'm a man doesn't mean I can't offer a woman advice on what might work for her if she can provide me some criteria. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

May 12, 2017, 11:31 PM	#33
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	I've got 21A Bobcats in 25ACP, another in 22LR and a 3032 Tomcat in 32ACP. I recommend the Tomcat. It isn't much bigger or heavier, but has a better penetrating bullet.

May 13, 2017, 11:49 AM	#35
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	The ONLY way to get a gun for a woman is to let her pick it out. I know tiny little women who like BIG guns and big women who like small guns. There is no way that any man can pick out a gun for another guy much less a woman. Take her to a "Women on Target event (sponsored by the NRA) and let her try different guns. The event has a minimal cost and she will get to handle a lot of different makes, models and calibers of guns. It is a lot cheaper than renting guns at an indoor range and she will get personal instruction from qualified people in a safe, inviting, environment.

May 14, 2017, 08:09 AM	#36
Brian48 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2001 Location: Boston, People's Republic of MA Posts: 1,616	I'd recommend a light weight jframe and then let her determine which carry load Is most controllable for her comfort level. __________________ Proud to have served.

May 14, 2017, 08:54 PM	#37
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	When I first read the thread title, I thought someone was being offered a trade. I would have to see pictures of each to decide if it was a good deal or not.

May 15, 2017, 09:31 AM	#38
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	We are kind of running out of gas here. If something just says another gun, then they are missing the point of the best advice. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

May 15, 2017, 12:40 PM	#40
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	If you want a new gun just buy one for a woman. She will reject it and you have another gun. If you want to buy her a gun then let her pick it and keep your opinions to yourself. She will buy what she likes and love it.

May 19, 2017, 06:55 AM	#41
dogngun Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2002 Location: South east PA Posts: 570	I was going to say that might be a good trade, depending on the condition... But these little Berettas have NEVER been dependable enough to carry...and I really wanted to like them - I like the idea of a small pocket .22 pistol, but, it has to SHOOT...and the several Beretta M21's I owned some years ago would not reliably do that. Not a .22, but the only carry small pocket pistol I feel comfortable carrying is the S&W Bodyguard .380...NEVER had a single problem with either of the 2 I own. ( one with the safety, one without.) __________________ I am another gun-carrying liberal veteran.