December 9, 2011, 10:00 PM | #1676 |
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You can have my Cabinet Post when you pry it from my cold dead fingers......
Holder is saying he will not resign. No big surprise here. He is pretty brazen about lying to congress. I wonder if they will impeach?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/09/us...ious.html?_r=1
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December 10, 2011, 12:28 AM | #1677 |
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Holder on criticism, according to a Los Angeles Times article I saw in Friday's Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
The criticism is politically driven, he said. Funny thing about this is that, to an extent, he is right. Having said that however, there remains the fact of BATFE's screw-up, latest screw-up that is, Operation Fast and Furious. BATFE is located, by the way, at DOJ, and Holder's ever changing stories about who knew what and when, among other things, is lacking in credibility. Even if true, his sordid tales would raise serious question concerning his competence and attention span. By the way, the foregoing leaves unanswered, the following questions, as to BATFE antics. How much beyond Holder's level of command and authority did or does this fiasco extend. To The Whitehouse perhaps? Who knows, and then how high up in The Whitehouse? |
December 10, 2011, 02:02 AM | #1678 |
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Seems to me someone that supplies weapons to enemies of our country, should be treated like what they are a terrorist , and our Congress ,both houses have passed bills dealing with those that are enemies of our great land,They may be arrested and held with out even a hearing.So why are these people, Holder right on down not in jail held at least till they, give congress all the info and honestly answer all questions? corporate or we lose the key! All within the new law that we the people are to live with.
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December 10, 2011, 02:30 AM | #1679 |
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Actually a department of our government, headed by Eric Holder, supplied firearms to those who are enemies of the government of the Republic of Mexico.
That is an act of war against a sovereign foreign state. I wonder why no one has had the gumption to mention that fact in the hearings.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
December 10, 2011, 08:19 AM | #1680 | |
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Quote:
Fox News is reporting a growing move to impeach Eric Holder - I feel this is right on as what he did was a crime against our constitution and our people and an act of war against Mexico.
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December 10, 2011, 06:48 PM | #1681 |
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jimpeel wrote:
Actually a department of our government, headed by Eric Holder, supplied firearms to those who are enemies of the government of the Republic of Mexico. That is an act of war against a sovereign foreign state. I wonder why no one has had the gumption to mention that fact in the hearings. ----------------- Re Jim's closing, that question is, I suspect, quite far removed from being the only unasked question. |
December 10, 2011, 06:53 PM | #1682 |
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BGutzman wrote:
Seems to me someone that supplies weapons to enemies of our country, should be treated like what they are a terrorist Agreed, if they weren’t in high government offices they probably already be charged and certainly if this wasn’t handled under anti-terror laws then it seems to me the RICO statues would also seem to be a possibility as this does have much of the appearance of an organized crime scheme. Fox News is reporting a growing move to impeach Eric Holder - I feel this is right on as what he did was a crime against our constitution and our people and an act of war against Mexico ---------------------------- The DOJ a "criminally controlled organization", I think that being "a criminally controlled organization" is a predicate to RICO Act prosecution, which brings me to the following. Can anyone imagine the DOJ prosecuting the DOJ? |
December 10, 2011, 08:13 PM | #1683 | |
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Quote:
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December 10, 2011, 08:25 PM | #1684 |
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Voltaire was wrong. The loser is punished as well.
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December 10, 2011, 08:53 PM | #1685 | |
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Quote:
Only a government can commit an act of war and, in this instance, it was the government, our government, which committed this act.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
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December 11, 2011, 12:56 AM | #1686 | |
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Here is a lesson from the past (courtesy of the New York Times, no less) about impeaching an Attorney General of the United States.
He’s Impeachable, You Know I rather like the conclusion: Quote:
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December 11, 2011, 03:13 AM | #1687 | |
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Quote:
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December 11, 2011, 03:32 AM | #1688 |
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Well according to the [Defense authorization act] passed by our senate 97 for 3 against ,our military will soon be able to arrest American citizens ,suspected of terrorism ,and hold them indefinitely, with no recourse.And our house already passed a bill close enough that they will work out the details and we have that law.
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December 11, 2011, 03:06 PM | #1689 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
Amendment #1274 defeated by a vote of 59-41. The following US senators voted to allow the detention of arrestees until the never ending "war on terror" ends: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=1&vote=00217 Alexander (R-TN) Ayotte (R-NH) Barrasso (R-WY) Blunt (R-MO) Boozman (R-AR) Burr (R-NC) Chambliss (R-GA) Coats (R-IN) Coburn (R-OK) Cochran (R-MS) Cornyn (R-TX) Crapo (R-ID) DeMint (R-SC) Enzi (R-WY) Graham (R-SC) Grassley (R-IA) Hatch (R-UT) Hoeven (R-ND) Hutchison (R-TX) Inhofe (R-OK) Isakson (R-GA) Johanns (R-NE) Johnson (R-WI) Kyl (R-AZ) Lieberman (ID-CT) Lugar (R-IN) Manchin (D-WV) McConnell (R-KY) Moran (R-KS) Murkowski (R-AK) Portman (R-OH) Pryor (D-AR) Risch (R-ID) Roberts (R-KS) Rubio (R-FL) Sessions (R-AL) Shelby (R-AL) Thune (R-SD) Toomey (R-PA) Vitter (R-LA) Wicker (R-MS In the end. http://articles.cnn.com/2011-12-01/p..._s=PM:POLITICS Quote:
Last edited by thallub; December 11, 2011 at 04:21 PM. |
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December 11, 2011, 04:40 PM | #1690 |
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Jimpeel:
Please have another look at my post # 1680. I quoted BGutzman, adding my owh thoughts, below the dotted line. BGutzman wrote: Seems to me someone that supplies weapons to enemies of our country, should be treated like what they are a terrorist Agreed, if they weren’t in high government offices they probably already be charged and certainly if this wasn’t handled under anti-terror laws then it seems to me the RICO statues would also seem to be a possibility as this does have much of the appearance of an organized crime scheme. Fox News is reporting a growing move to impeach Eric Holder - I feel this is right on as what he did was a crime against our constitution and our people and an act of war against Mexico ---------------------------- The DOJ a "criminally controlled organization", I think that being "a criminally controlled organization" is a predicate to RICO Act prosecution, which brings me to the following. Can anyone imagine the DOJ prosecuting the DOJ? |
December 11, 2011, 05:16 PM | #1691 |
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There is no "movement" to impeach Holder. It's a good Sunday morning politico slogan, but has no traction, since he would never be convicted by the Senate.
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December 11, 2011, 06:07 PM | #1692 | ||
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US Rep. Issa does not wish to impeach AG Holder. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...r-white-house/ Quote:
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December 11, 2011, 06:24 PM | #1693 | |
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Thallub said:
Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=PLiKvSz_wX8
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December 11, 2011, 06:34 PM | #1694 |
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thallub, quoting Congressman Issa offered:
“It is not about one person,” said Mr. Issa, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, during a breakfast hosted by the Christian Science Monitor. “It is about a failure that seems to be pervasive within Justice that investigations play fast and loose with the expectations of what is right or wrong when it comes to what I am going to call collateral damage,” he said. ........................................................................................................ Mr. Issa said Fast and Furious was not the first federal investigation in which “bad people are allowed to continue to do bad things in the name of going after bad people.” He said he was not joining dozens of Republican congressmen in calling for Mr. Holder’s resignation in part because his committee had not “reached all the conclusions that are appropriate in this investigation.” “(Mr. Holder) did not order this operation,” Mr. Issa said. “He didn’t demand they do something this stupid.” He said Mr. Holder should fix the problem and it was up to the White House to decide whether the attorney general should go. ------------------------------ Congressman Issa's closing comment is particularly interesting re Holder "fixing" the problem. How is he to do this, given that he appears to be, or in fact is a significant part of the problem himself. As to what the Whitehouse might opt to do, remember that those basketball players stick together, at least for a while. Question is, how long might “a while” be? |
December 11, 2011, 06:48 PM | #1695 |
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I don't think Issa's comments can be taken at face value. Though the part about not seeking an impeachment is a remark I can believe, the underlying motivations for this couldn't be farther from those expressed in his statement. The Republican leadership in both the House and Senate has no taste for these hearings - they are holding their collective noses and staying as far away as they can. They have blinders on, you see - everything is about the 2012 elections, and for them there is one message and one message only. That is the economy. Anything that diverts attention from this message is seen as a threat to their election chances and they aren't going near it. Issa, in my opinion, has had his hand slapped in no uncertain terms. More than likely, he's probably been threatened with losing his committee chair and that's why he's soft-stepping now.
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December 11, 2011, 07:38 PM | #1696 | |
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Congress critters have no stomach for long drawn out investigations of train wrecks caused by career bureaucrats. The F&F debacle was driven from the bottom up; it did not originate in the office of AG Holder. F&F originated with career employees in the Phoenix office of the BATFE with the concurrence of the local federal prosecutor. It was sold up the food chain. |
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December 11, 2011, 07:55 PM | #1697 |
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Here is the thing.
TO get a cabinet member to resign he has to become a liability to the president or be vulnerable to getting impeached. Since Holder was fulfilling the will of the people who elected the president he is in little danger of being fired. Now if he were to loosen regulation say by opening up the machine gun registry he would be gone that week.
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December 11, 2011, 09:04 PM | #1698 | |
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It was not closed by a regulation that could be altered without Congressional action. |
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December 11, 2011, 10:07 PM | #1699 | |
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Last I checked it was against the law to sell guns to Mexican Drug Dealers; but that didn't seem to stop anyone.
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December 11, 2011, 10:53 PM | #1700 |
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Thallub, in response to your comments about F&F orginating in the AG's office.
You are correct. Unfortunately, you fail to see the reality of the situation. An operation of this nature cannot be restricted to one Agency. This operation required the concurence of the following agencies and probably more. ATF had to approve it and did. The operation was included in the Phoenix ATF SAC in his weekly reports. They used data from the operation to support their effort to impose new regulations on gun dealers and establish a data base, in effect a National gun registery, for long guns. The FBI had to approve the sales a number of which were reported. They had to approve the use of their confidental informant(s). Because it crossed international boundaries and excluded the Mexican Government and all of our embassy personnel, the State Department had to approve the operation. Ambassadors get really upset when this type of things happens in their country. Homeland Security had to be in the loop as their personnel came in contact with the "smugglers" and were instructed to ignore them. The coordination involved between competing agencys and departments requires White House involvement. If the White House is not involved this would never have happened. Hillary Clinton is to smart to not have a get out of jail free card. We know from that E-Mails from ATF SAC Phoenix were distributed to a NSC staffer at the White House. The copies of the E-Mails contained personal notes to the staffer. To once again quote my former Attorney and current Sec of State, Hillary Clinton, testimony that the Heads of the ATF, FBI, Homeland Security, AG, SEC Of State, National Security Advisor and at least the White House Chief of Staff were not briefed and did not approve this operation, Requires a suspension of disbelief. Congressman Issa is a wiley and tough old bird. He has the goods and will use the information at a most advantagous time. |
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atf , fast and furious |
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