Time for a dumb question?

mattlago · February 15, 2011, 09:32 AM

Is it feasible to load this bullet in 45 acp? http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.452-225-gr-FTX/

Spec says it is .452 but is for 45 long colt. However, I have read that 45 acp is .452.

PawPaw · February 15, 2011, 09:38 AM

It's got two cannelures. Hornady must have foreseen people using both of them at some point, so I don't know why it would not in the .45 ACP, except that OAL might become an issue.

I don't know why you'd want to load this bullet in .45 ACP, but then again I've done things that no one else could figure out why I wanted to do them.

Be careful, be safe.

mikld · February 15, 2011, 10:01 AM

If you can get it to feed in your handgun, and if you have safe loads for either seating depth (you'll prolly need to use a shorter OAL than the cannalures) , then there's no reason not to try it...

4runnerman · February 15, 2011, 10:08 AM

Let us know how it goes. Im a fan of Hornady bullets

mattlago · February 15, 2011, 10:09 AM

Well, no one has ever accused me of being too bright and I like to try new things.

Feeding and oal wont be an issue as playing with the idea of running thru a s&w 45 acp revolver.

My thought on it is that the tip may overcome plugging issues with hollow points and the revolver im using is only 2 3/4 inches so maybe what I lose in powder burn I make up for with initial penetration. No science behind that thought, just playing with the idea.

mattlago · February 15, 2011, 10:32 AM

Well I have ordered some. (none available locally that i have found).

So if you all dont mind, Im just gonna blame you if something goes wrong!

Will let you know the results.

k4swb · February 15, 2011, 01:09 PM

Most jacketed bullets for .45ACP are .451" instead of .452". If you adjust your powder charges and can get to a safe level that functions it may work just fine. I plan on trying this in the future.

mattlago · February 15, 2011, 01:58 PM

k4swb would you mind tryign it first to see if it blows up your gun instead of mine?

Let me toss out another question to you guys on this. Planned on loading the powder charge to the same spec as 45 acp. Assumed i would double check the oal of the bullet (not cartridge, the bullet) to determine the proper seating depth of this bullet so that I dont create unwanted pressure. Then adjust any variance minus the flex tip. My goal would be to get an oal of 1.26 to 1.275 like a 45 acp, but it may be a little longer if the bullet plus tip is longer than a standard 45 acp round. I read in the literature of the gun that "additional case trimming may be necessary to have it cycle in lever guns" so I assume there will be some tinkering here. But foremost, I think that not seating the bullet too deeply is crucial.

I assume (havent tried yet) that I will still be able to cycle the action of the revolver without it making contact as there appears to be additional length in the chamber.

Amazing what idiots will do when they get a hair brained idea isnt it?

Brian Pfleuger · February 15, 2011, 03:14 PM

According to QuickLoad, that bullet is .822" long. That would leave you with only about 5.2gr H20 of usable capacity. As such, your max achievable velocities, without exceeding SAAMI max pressures, are going to be in the upper 700fps range and that's assuming that the extra .001 diameter does not drastically raise pressure, which I assume it won't, really. At least one person has reported shooting .357 and .356 bullets in 357sig, which is nominally .355, with no excess pressure signs. But you know about assumptions, right?

Anyway, I've thought of the same general thing before, it sure would be cool to have polymer-tipped semi-auto handgun bullets.

4runnerman · February 15, 2011, 03:19 PM

A .452 dia is just fine in a 45 ACP. Friend of mine makes and sells commercally. I load them at 1.22 col 6.0 gn Unique powder.Have shot hundreds of them. The ones i shoot are 260 gn bullets

ipscchef · February 15, 2011, 03:29 PM

That is a pretty cool idea, if you can make it work.
Please keep us updated. I will stay tuned.
Kinda wish I woulda thought of it

Willy

DaleA · February 15, 2011, 03:48 PM

I’d also be interested in how this comes out.

Now:

Let me say that I like Hornady VERY much and have shot a *lot* of their lead SWC out of my 1911 style .45. That said, I’m slightly irritated by Hornady’s claim for this bullet:
“Delivers the flattest trajectories EVER from lever guns.”
Well, yeah it CAN deliver the flattest trajectories ever but ONLY if I do my part and push it really fast. Guess I don’t like the implication that the bullet all by itself will shoot flatter. If you want to get technical and quote ballistic coefficients, Speer put out a 225 grain jacketed hollow point with a .169 BC and the sectional density was about the same.

Maybe I missing something here (entirely possible) or maybe I just needed more bran in my breakfast cereal this morning.

k4swb · February 15, 2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

k4swb would you mind tryign it first to see if it blows up your gun instead of mine?

If you wait long enough that might just happen. but it sounds like you're raring to go.
Just be careful with powder charges and you should be fine.

I may be wrong but I'm thinking of powders on the slow end for .45ACP.
Good luck, I usually get fussed at for thinking anything other than exact book loads.

mattlago · February 15, 2011, 05:08 PM

See now,, some of you guys are doing math and calculations and stuff and that just makes it more complicated. Ya just gotta wing it more

I agree that the diameter should be fine (appreciate the info). I also dont think at Im gonna get the "flattest trajectory" out of my 325 pd and I as well am tired of claims like this. But I think if I can make it work it would be really cool to see a 6 shot revolver with red tips facing out the front. And if this doesnt work, Ill just grab some fmj's and my wifes finger nail polish and call it a day. But I am really curious about how this would pay off in gel etc.

Ordered some bullets and will have in a few days. I expect I will run a series at different variations and see how it works to report back to you all. A friend of mine has a chrono so I will try to get him out with me. If not, Ill at least be able to give you my calibrated wrist and eyball measurement.

k4swb · February 15, 2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

See now,, some of you guys are doing math and calculations and stuff and that just makes it more complicated. Ya just gotta wing it more

You are just asking for it.

I'm more interested in the .45ACP results. I carry a .45ACP while woods walking in case of feral dog attack. This happens more often than I like. Always looking for an effective round for putting the brakes on them. So far 200gr XTPs work pretty good but those flex tips look interesting, if they will expand at all at .45ACP velocities.

ipscchef · February 15, 2011, 06:22 PM

I am with K4, I would be inerested to see if they will run in a 1911.
k4swb, you have been loading 200gr. XTP's for your 1911? I have just posted a thread asking for opinions from those who use them, as I am carrying for just about the same reason on my farm, 'yotes and feral dogs, of the two and four legged variety.

If you have time would you weigh in on my thread below this one on your experience with them, as well as any loads you may wish to share. This is just the type of info I am looking for.

Thanks,
Willy (ipscchef)

mattlago · February 15, 2011, 09:06 PM

I know, im asking for it. Just joking around.

I thought about this more today and wondered if would run in my 1911 as well. I imagine it wouldnt be a feed issue if I can run up hollow points. Unless the oal is too long.

I have a colt 1911 and a taurus pt1911. I will run some rounds through these two and my 325pd and let you guys all know the results.

Should be a fun day and will let you all know what I find out. If anyone has any more input on this, please throw it in. I would rather go in educated than ignorant.

k4swb · February 15, 2011, 09:18 PM

Quote:

k4swb, you have been loading 200gr. XTP's for your 1911?

I own five .45ACPs but none are 1911s.
I also contributed to your other thread.

Sport45 · February 15, 2011, 10:24 PM

Hornady doesn't show any loads less than 850 fps for this bullet in .45 Colt handgun or rifle loadings. Will they reliably expand at the upper 700 fps range predicted by peetzakiller with Quickload? If not, it probably won't perform any better than a cast bullet.

Brian Pfleuger · February 15, 2011, 10:56 PM

If it''l work in the gun at 1.260, you could probably reach 840-ish with the right powder.

mattlago · February 21, 2011, 10:26 AM

Bullets came in. Odd that in pic it shows 2 cannelures but the actual bullet only has one. See pic attached.

I dont think this changes anything, but wanted to put that question out to the public. Thoughts?

Magnum Wheel Man · February 21, 2011, 10:48 AM

but I just built a 45 Colt single action snubbie, & I shot several loads this weekend... one being Hornadys Critical Defense ammo with 185 gr FTX bullets...

here is a pic of 2 of the bulets... ( they were shot into 4" of hard packed snow, with 2" of ice under, & then semi frozen ground, from between 3 & 4 ft out of my 2" snubbie )

one bullet doesn't make an effective test... but I wasn't impressed...

BTW... the Honaday was factory ammo, the Gold Dot was Buffalo Bores light loading, & a 3rd bullet was never recovered ( it penitrated so deeply into the frozen ground, that I couldn't dig it out ) those were Keith style gas checked lead semi wadcutters out of Bufalo Bores light loads...

mattlago · February 21, 2011, 10:53 AM

What werent you impressed by, the expansion?

Magnum Wheel Man · February 21, 2011, 11:01 AM

yes... both the Gold Dot & the FTX had similar penitration... Gold Dot had the classic look of perfect expansion, the FTX started expanding on one side, & colapsed on it's self on the other side... both were shot at the same angle...

point being, if you wanted to shoot them in a revolver, & wanted more penitration, I'd probably use the Hornady XTP... they have proven them selves to me... the FTX has not ( although one bullet does not a test make )

mattlago · February 21, 2011, 11:04 AM

Already in hand, will run some test and see what i get. Thanks for the input

Anyone with any thoughts on cannelure?

February 15, 2011, 09:32 AM	#1
mattlago Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Posts: 55	Time for a dumb question? Is it feasible to load this bullet in 45 acp? http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.452-225-gr-FTX/ Spec says it is .452 but is for 45 long colt. However, I have read that 45 acp is .452.

February 15, 2011, 09:38 AM	#2
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	It's got two cannelures. Hornady must have foreseen people using both of them at some point, so I don't know why it would not in the .45 ACP, except that OAL might become an issue. I don't know why you'd want to load this bullet in .45 ACP, but then again I've done things that no one else could figure out why I wanted to do them. Be careful, be safe. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

February 15, 2011, 10:01 AM	#3
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	If you can get it to feed in your handgun, and if you have safe loads for either seating depth (you'll prolly need to use a shorter OAL than the cannalures) , then there's no reason not to try it... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

February 15, 2011, 10:08 AM	#4
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Let us know how it goes. Im a fan of Hornady bullets __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

February 15, 2011, 03:14 PM	#9
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	According to QuickLoad, that bullet is .822" long. That would leave you with only about 5.2gr H20 of usable capacity. As such, your max achievable velocities, without exceeding SAAMI max pressures, are going to be in the upper 700fps range and that's assuming that the extra .001 diameter does not drastically raise pressure, which I assume it won't, really. At least one person has reported shooting .357 and .356 bullets in 357sig, which is nominally .355, with no excess pressure signs. But you know about assumptions, right? Anyway, I've thought of the same general thing before, it sure would be cool to have polymer-tipped semi-auto handgun bullets. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 15, 2011, 10:09 AM	#5
mattlago Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Posts: 55	Well, no one has ever accused me of being too bright and I like to try new things. Feeding and oal wont be an issue as playing with the idea of running thru a s&w 45 acp revolver. My thought on it is that the tip may overcome plugging issues with hollow points and the revolver im using is only 2 3/4 inches so maybe what I lose in powder burn I make up for with initial penetration. No science behind that thought, just playing with the idea.

February 15, 2011, 10:32 AM	#6
mattlago Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Posts: 55	Well I have ordered some. (none available locally that i have found). So if you all dont mind, Im just gonna blame you if something goes wrong! Will let you know the results.

February 15, 2011, 01:09 PM	#7
k4swb Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2009 Posts: 389	Most jacketed bullets for .45ACP are .451" instead of .452". If you adjust your powder charges and can get to a safe level that functions it may work just fine. I plan on trying this in the future.

February 15, 2011, 01:58 PM	#8
mattlago Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Posts: 55	k4swb would you mind tryign it first to see if it blows up your gun instead of mine? Let me toss out another question to you guys on this. Planned on loading the powder charge to the same spec as 45 acp. Assumed i would double check the oal of the bullet (not cartridge, the bullet) to determine the proper seating depth of this bullet so that I dont create unwanted pressure. Then adjust any variance minus the flex tip. My goal would be to get an oal of 1.26 to 1.275 like a 45 acp, but it may be a little longer if the bullet plus tip is longer than a standard 45 acp round. I read in the literature of the gun that "additional case trimming may be necessary to have it cycle in lever guns" so I assume there will be some tinkering here. But foremost, I think that not seating the bullet too deeply is crucial. I assume (havent tried yet) that I will still be able to cycle the action of the revolver without it making contact as there appears to be additional length in the chamber. Amazing what idiots will do when they get a hair brained idea isnt it?

February 15, 2011, 03:19 PM	#10
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	A .452 dia is just fine in a 45 ACP. Friend of mine makes and sells commercally. I load them at 1.22 col 6.0 gn Unique powder.Have shot hundreds of them. The ones i shoot are 260 gn bullets __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

February 15, 2011, 03:29 PM	#11
ipscchef Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: South Central Pa. Posts: 427	Things that make you go HMMMMM. That is a pretty cool idea, if you can make it work. Please keep us updated. I will stay tuned. Kinda wish I woulda thought of it Willy __________________ Don' keep shooting them until you think they are dead, Keep shooting them until they think they are dead.- Clint Smith

February 15, 2011, 03:48 PM	#12
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	Picking nits I’d also be interested in how this comes out. Now: Let me say that I like Hornady VERY much and have shot a lot of their lead SWC out of my 1911 style .45. That said, I’m slightly irritated by Hornady’s claim for this bullet: “Delivers the flattest trajectories EVER from lever guns.” Well, yeah it CAN deliver the flattest trajectories ever but ONLY if I do my part and push it really fast. Guess I don’t like the implication that the bullet all by itself will shoot flatter. If you want to get technical and quote ballistic coefficients, Speer put out a 225 grain jacketed hollow point with a .169 BC and the sectional density was about the same. Maybe I missing something here (entirely possible) or maybe I just needed more bran in my breakfast cereal this morning.

February 15, 2011, 05:08 PM	#14
mattlago Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Posts: 55	See now,, some of you guys are doing math and calculations and stuff and that just makes it more complicated. Ya just gotta wing it more I agree that the diameter should be fine (appreciate the info). I also dont think at Im gonna get the "flattest trajectory" out of my 325 pd and I as well am tired of claims like this. But I think if I can make it work it would be really cool to see a 6 shot revolver with red tips facing out the front. And if this doesnt work, Ill just grab some fmj's and my wifes finger nail polish and call it a day. But I am really curious about how this would pay off in gel etc. Ordered some bullets and will have in a few days. I expect I will run a series at different variations and see how it works to report back to you all. A friend of mine has a chrono so I will try to get him out with me. If not, Ill at least be able to give you my calibrated wrist and eyball measurement. Last edited by mattlago; February 15, 2011 at 05:14 PM.

February 15, 2011, 06:22 PM	#16
ipscchef Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: South Central Pa. Posts: 427	I am with K4, I would be inerested to see if they will run in a 1911. k4swb, you have been loading 200gr. XTP's for your 1911? I have just posted a thread asking for opinions from those who use them, as I am carrying for just about the same reason on my farm, 'yotes and feral dogs, of the two and four legged variety. If you have time would you weigh in on my thread below this one on your experience with them, as well as any loads you may wish to share. This is just the type of info I am looking for. Thanks, Willy (ipscchef) __________________ Don' keep shooting them until you think they are dead, Keep shooting them until they think they are dead.- Clint Smith

February 15, 2011, 09:06 PM	#17
mattlago Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Posts: 55	I know, im asking for it. Just joking around. I thought about this more today and wondered if would run in my 1911 as well. I imagine it wouldnt be a feed issue if I can run up hollow points. Unless the oal is too long. I have a colt 1911 and a taurus pt1911. I will run some rounds through these two and my 325pd and let you guys all know the results. Should be a fun day and will let you all know what I find out. If anyone has any more input on this, please throw it in. I would rather go in educated than ignorant.

February 15, 2011, 10:24 PM	#19
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Hornady doesn't show any loads less than 850 fps for this bullet in .45 Colt handgun or rifle loadings. Will they reliably expand at the upper 700 fps range predicted by peetzakiller with Quickload? If not, it probably won't perform any better than a cast bullet. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

February 15, 2011, 10:56 PM	#20
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	If it''l work in the gun at 1.260, you could probably reach 840-ish with the right powder. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 21, 2011, 10:48 AM	#22
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	not totally relitive to your post... but I just built a 45 Colt single action snubbie, & I shot several loads this weekend... one being Hornadys Critical Defense ammo with 185 gr FTX bullets... here is a pic of 2 of the bulets... ( they were shot into 4" of hard packed snow, with 2" of ice under, & then semi frozen ground, from between 3 & 4 ft out of my 2" snubbie ) one bullet doesn't make an effective test... but I wasn't impressed... BTW... the Honaday was factory ammo, the Gold Dot was Buffalo Bores light loading, & a 3rd bullet was never recovered ( it penitrated so deeply into the frozen ground, that I couldn't dig it out ) those were Keith style gas checked lead semi wadcutters out of Bufalo Bores light loads... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

February 21, 2011, 10:53 AM	#23
mattlago Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Posts: 55	What werent you impressed by, the expansion?

February 21, 2011, 11:01 AM	#24
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	yes... both the Gold Dot & the FTX had similar penitration... Gold Dot had the classic look of perfect expansion, the FTX started expanding on one side, & colapsed on it's self on the other side... both were shot at the same angle... point being, if you wanted to shoot them in a revolver, & wanted more penitration, I'd probably use the Hornady XTP... they have proven them selves to me... the FTX has not ( although one bullet does not a test make ) __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

February 21, 2011, 11:04 AM	#25
mattlago Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Posts: 55	Already in hand, will run some test and see what i get. Thanks for the input Anyone with any thoughts on cannelure?